Darth Maul, Premature Death?

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Who thinks that Maul should have lived to fight in the clone wars? I sure as hell do, I think a battle between Maul and Anakin would have rocked ass on several different levels of cool.

 

Hell imagine this;

 

Geonosis, the clones have started fighting the droids and the remaining Jedi are halted as Maul leads the droids forward? There is a cool little battle sequence with Maul wasting a few Jedi before he is called back...

 

Now to Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine still has Maul in his service, but now that he has Anakin there is no more need for him. Palpatine instead already sent Maul to kill the Viceroy, and so Maul waits on Mustafar like a good little boy.

 

We'll say that Maul uses a single blade because Obi-wan slashed his dual-blade in half (And Maul leaves Obi-wan for whatever reason in TPM). Anakin shows up and there is a duel, Maul lasts for a while but ends up getting his hands diced off by Anakin after a short while (The hand severing is a real Vader favorite.). Anakin kills him with a lightsaber stab to the heart, and he then discards his blue lightsaber for Maul's red one. (This in my opinion would make the climatic duel with obi-wan cooler as it would be the lightside saber color VS the darkside saber color.)

 

So yeah, I think Maul should have lived to fight more, and then die by the hand of everyone's favorite villain.

[Skynxnex]

The problem with this of course is then who orders the Clone Army?

 

While I think that Palpatine didnt plan on Maul dying at Naboo, even if Maul had survived Anakin was still found. This means that in the end Maul would only serve as a stop-gap measure till Palpatine could get rid of him.

 

We have seen that Palpatine has been always on the look out for a stronger apprentice, which fits in with Sith ideology since there are supposed to only be two and lets face it. If you as a sith master want your legacy to continue you want a strong apprentice who can eventually take your place and continue the sith legacy.

 

At any rate I think it worked out better with Maul dying. Tyranus was a far better Sith Lord who can control the Separatists due to his more independent nature. One thing I think your overall analysis is not taking into account is that Maul was used to only following orders from Palpatine. Maul would not have been suitable to be the leader of the Separatists in my opinion given how dependent he was on Palpatine for direction.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Hmm then Lucas should have made Maul be Dooku's apprentice, that way the cool leader stays, and you get a better fight.

 

I'm not really saying Maul would have been a good central character, I'm just saying I would have really liked to have seen him fight some more.

[Trejiuvanat]

I wish Maul had had an even more premature death, somewhere between the first draft of Episode I and the final version of it. He was completely useless to the plot and to anything.

 

Sure he has some fancy fights, but other than that he is completely useless. He's a mindless villian with a cute lightsaber... He goes to the "Useless Ideas that made the prequels suck" Category, aka Episode I.

[Darth_Rob]

In my opinion, while Maul was cool in his way, I believe that Dooku was cooler and bad asser (if thats a word). Palpatine would have turned Dooku eventually anyway, and the two of them would have had to duke it out to see who would be the better apprentice. Wait! That would have been a sweet addition! Showing the battle between Maul & Dooku to see who would be Palpatine's apprentice. That would have been a sweet duel!

[Cain]

In my opinion, while Maul was cool in his way, I believe that Dooku was cooler and bad asser (if thats a word).

 

Dooku should have been the most powerful after the Emperor and Yoda - it was a shame to see him killed like that - I hate GL's ideeas for the Dooku's killing.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Same with me Cain. Dooku getting it handed to him like that blows... And the worst part is is that Obi-wan gets it handed to him by Dooku, then Anakin rips Dooku a new one, and THEN when Obi-wan and Anakin fight, Obi-wan is somehow able to hold his own against him when is clearly far beyond him in terms of skill...

[Darth_Rob]

That is so true. Anakin proves to be a powerful dueler with Dooku (plus he elimanates countless Jedi in the temple), but when he faces Obi Wan, he is defeated. The only reasoning I can think is that he is confused and devastated by seeing Padme "betray" him to Obi Wan, and to having to fight his mentor.

[Krytos]

My two cents. Whilst Dooku (with exception of his name) was definetely a better character, in practically every way, I still feel that Maul was killed off to quick.

With little impact other than killing Qui-Gon and chasing the main characters around in Episode I, he never really did anything . . . like speak, except for what? One line

It just felt like he was killed off way too quickly before he added anything to the story.

 

That is so true. Anakin proves to be a powerful dueler with Dooku (plus he elimanates countless Jedi in the temple), but when he faces Obi Wan, he is defeated. The only reasoning I can think is that he is confused and devastated by seeing Padme "betray" him to Obi Wan, and to having to fight his mentor.

 

Don't forget that Obi-Wan is now a Jedi Master, inferring large growth as a Jedi, and more importantly he trained Anakin. Who better to know his fighting style than his master? And who better to be a real challenge?

[Darth_Rob]

Krytos said:

 

Don't forget that Obi-Wan is now a Jedi Master, inferring large growth as a Jedi, and more importantly he trained Anakin. Who better to know his fighting style than his master? And who better to be a real challenge?

 

 

True, but do you think that Obi Wan would have had the power to exterminate the Jedi in the temple? The dark side gave Anakin great physical strength and savagery, both dangerous powers. I do agree that Obi Wan would know Anakin's fighting style, but at the same time, Anakin would know Obi Wans. I just feel that Anakin was a better fighter and possessed a greater power with the Force, and was more than a match for Obi Wan.

[BadSamaritan]

I think that both Darth Maul and Count Duukus' deaths were pre-mature, and poorly done. Both chars had great potential, and were wasted by Lucas.

 

Maul would have been better if he had injured Obi-wan, and left him for dead, just to get into it with Duuku in the second film. That would have been cool.

 

As for Duuku, Anakin killed him way to fast. I think Lucas should have kept him alive until the end, and made the final lighsaber battle start out as a three way dance between two sith apprentices and Obi-wan.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Or better yet, Palpatine could be like one of those con-men who has wives stashed all over the place (Except in this case he has apprentices stashed all over the galaxy.) and they all go at each others throat to win the love and affection of ole wrinkle-face.

[Paul]

There is much more to the Dooku Anikan fight in the book. It tells much more of Palpatines deal with Dooku and how he turns Anikans anger into a weapon. If you haven't read the book I highly recommend it- I haven't finished it yet. I keep getting sidetracked.-Grand Moff Conway

[Skynxnex]

Well it goes without saying that Dooku died way way too easily/badly in RoTS. Lucas had a perfect chance in my opinion to more or less re-create the final duel between Vader and Luke but this time with Anakin and Dooku. It would have been great to have Palpatine taunt Anakin and for Dooku to sort of have the edge. Finally, Palpatine cracks Anakin's armor and he gives himself to the darkside and destroys Dooku. For me if it had been implemented like that it would have been a great parallel. The father fails where his son eventually succeeds.

 

The way it was done in the film...ugh. It was done too quickly and too fast. Also, Dooku like everyone said here, he defeats Obi at the beginning but then later on Anakin (who annihilated Dooku very easily) cant beat Obi? Just a little too weird for me.

[Trejiuvanat]

The way it was done in the film...ugh. It was done too quickly and too fast.

 

That's the biggest failure of EIII, there's too much going on and too little time, so most of the scenes seem too hasty and compressed.

[Skynxnex]

The way it was done in the film...ugh. It was done too quickly and too fast.

 

That's the biggest failure of EIII, there's too much going on and too little time, so most of the scenes seem too hasty and compressed.

 

 

Yes. Thats actually one of the best summations I have heard about why Ep3 wasnt as good as it could have been.

[Trejiuvanat]

It's a result of bad planning. In Eps I and II GL wasted lots of time with useless subplots and scenes (Tatooine segment in ep I, Naboo segment in Ep II). If the prequel plot had been laid out better, I mean better split up between the three movies we would have had higher quality prequels.

 

Ah Lucas you fool. You should have done at least 14 drafts of the prequels before starting to film them as he did with the OT.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

If only Lucas read this site, then he may realize that not everyone loves his crap (Graciously dunked in as many grotesque(sp) substances as possible to add flavor.) and that he did indeed do a crap job in everything after the OT, and if you study the OT you will notice that the directing on it is pretty poor as well, but it really only shows through in ANH I think.

[Trejiuvanat]

If only Lucas read this site, then he may realize that not everyone loves his crap (Graciously dunked in as many grotesque(sp) substances as possible to add flavor.) and that he did indeed do a crap job in everything after the OT, and if you study the OT you will notice that the directing on it is pretty poor as well, but it really only shows through in ANH I think.

 

And in ROTJ after Marquand left because of conflicts with Lucas...

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Who's Marquand? -Shys away slowly, cautiously...-

[DarthTofu]

For my two bits worth, I'm going to go with this: The rule of two is just plain stupid. Lucas based some of episode three on the books (IE the use of Kashyyyk... And... um... something else, I'm sure). Anyway, C'abaoth kind of breaks the rule of two, even if he is sort of a rogue Sith out there. I think it would've been awesome if Palpatine was a playe' with all the appretises! Okay, that sounded wrong, I guess... Also, supposedly in the Timothy Zhan novels, The Emperor leaves behind a Dark Jedi on Wayland to hide his vault of very nice stuff that would easily have turned the tide a long time ago if the Emperor had used them. So this basically blows the rule of two out the window, in my opinion. Maul had way cooler saber battles and stuff, and would have been all the more awesome if he cut off whiny Anakin's arm in Ep. II.

[Skynxnex]

Who's Marquand? -Shys away slowly, cautiously...-

 

He directed / co-directed Return of the Jedi. I think anyway. Not 100% sure on that. Much like Gary Kurtz directed Empire Strikes Back (or maybe that was Irvin Kirshner). Anyway the point that was trying to be made is that Lucas cant direct worth a damn and that he should have had another director there to help him out.

[Trejiuvanat]

Marquand was the director of Return of the Jedi, he directed most of the in-location scenes (he has a cameo as a at-st pilot on Endor) but after a fight with Lucas he withdrew and wasn't part of the editting.

 

Keshner (once a teacher of Lucas) was the director of ESB with Lucas around him more as an executive producer. Lucas would correct elements of the story he wanted to be told differently, but it was Keshner who decided how they'd be told. From wookiee growls to chasing scenes that really made up the dark atmosphere of Empire, they were part of Keshner's touch to it.

 

Curious is, that Lucas got Keshner and Marquand because directing was too stressful for him. And he was happy with the role of an executive producer. Now that he was 20 years older, and I doubt that directing has become less stressful I wonder why in heavens did he not get anyone else to direct.

[DarthTofu]

How and why in the blazes did you know all of that?

[Trejiuvanat]

How and why in the blazes did you know all of that?

 

Do you really want to know?