Those damned Corellian Corvettes

[teukros]

Hey irwoodhouse, looking forward to your post about game balance!

 

Re: the Corellian gunboat: when I am playing the Rebs I love the things. You've got Gunboats, who needs A-Wings? Heck, I've wondered what a Rebel fleet consisting of nothing but Gunboats would be like! Throw in a half dozen carriers full of X-Wings (just in case the Imperials get silly and build SSDs or Death Stars) and that's all you need! Except for planetary bombardment that is...

 

The thing about the Gunboats is that they are not available until the late mid-game. I still don't know how the Rebel player did it the last game I was playing but it was something like turn 250 and he sent eight Corellian Corvettes into the Sessawenna sector. I almost had a heart attack. Luckily I had considerable advance warning and was able to turn them all back with my fleet (leaving Coruscant temporarily undefended) and a couple of Carracks. Yes the Corvettes may have been a feint to draw my fleet away from Coruscant but this was so early in the game I was gambling that the Rebs had nothing else besides the damned Corvettes!

 

Besides, the Rebel player IMO should have used those Corvettes right away for sweeping the Rim and using their planetary bombardment to blow away any Imperial bases there. As I've already said, one of the things about the CVTs that drives the Imperials to distraction is their planetary bombardment rating.

 

Since in the game the Reb Starfighters are not allowed to move through hyperspace to Imperial controlled (or blockaded) systems, the Corellian Corvette seems to be well suited for Slash and Fade missions.

 

teukros

[TK421]

These stats are interesting, but the ships are not at the same time available... That corvette is there from the beginning, the lancer is not!

[the_mask]

You do know, that with 2 gencores all the AI can do is lay siege on a planet, but is unable to bombard it, right ?

[irwoodhouse]

Sorry for a slow reply. I've been a busy boy

 

TK421:

 

True, the lancer requires research, but it's only stage 2. Teukros mentions day 250 in his most recent post, above. For comparison, in the game I'm currently playing, I have the Star Galleon (stage 4) on day 266. In any case, the point is that the empire have a ship which is almost identical to the corvette with regard to build speed and capacity, which is an alternative to the slow-to-build victory and imperial destroyers.

 

the_mask:

 

Two shield generators prevent planetary assault (invasion), not bombardment. However, two shields can make the Alliance's life difficult since their bombardment capacity is limited until they acquire the really big ships (compare the VSD). Troops too, make a difference. I aim to keep three army regiments on each planet for 15 extra bombardment points.

 

Teukros:

 

It's unwise to rely too much one either one type of unit or one strategy (I play warcraft - I and II - and starcraft quite a bit. When I make the mistake of relying on one thing, I'm usually trounced. Dig up a copy of the original warcraft and play head-to-head. You'll get a feel for doing maximum damage with minimum forces). A fleet of gunships could be interesting, but they have no turbolasers. A few decent capital ships with ion cannons could make quite a mess of them.

 

I might perhaps be tempted to try a number of Nebulon-B frigates, as they have both turbolasers and laser cannons, but then they lack ion cannons. Also, no ship can have more than one target, so in the face of both large capital ships and fighters, I would have a problem.

 

I think the general consensus in this thread is a distinct lack of mid-range Imperial ships, which can be a problem, since the big ones are obviously slow to build. However, I contend that the Empire has a production advantage at the beginning of the game (starting in the core, plenty of troops, easy to grab systems with pre-built mines/refineries), and is likely to get mass shipyards online before the Alliance. i.e., the Alliance couldn't build big ships anyway, lacking the shipyards, so those mid-range ships are essential.

 

I'm genuinely interested in the strategy and balance issues mentioned. They're interesting because I rarely see them, as I play fairly methodically. For those who are interested, I've sketched some articles on strategy and balance (as I see them), available at http://www.irwoodhouse.uklinux.net/rebellion/index.html because I'm far, far too long-winded to put them here There's also a copy of my crib sheet I was quoting from, if you're interested. Let me know what you think on this forum.

 

Ian.

[Venix]

I always play according to my system, it never let me down thus far.

[Skynxnex]

The only problem with Lancers is that the research takes so damn long. I played a game where I decided to not edit anything apart from the hyperdrive speeds cuz I thought realistically that the ones in Rebelllion were horrible, anyway the Rebels as soon as they got Mon Cals they started mopping me with those buggers. I still have no clue why a ISD or VSD would stop functioning when its hull is still almost 100%, the Rebel ships keep fighting until you practically destroy their hull.

[Guest JediIgor]

Once, when I was playing.. I couldn't figure out why 6 squadrons of X-wing took down my ISD. (May I mention that the ISD was actually quite close to winning?)

 

What I don't understand now (not being a newbie anymore ) is why it took so long for the X-wing squadrons to win. In XvT, 12 x-wings would make short work of an ISD, let alone 72!

[irwoodhouse]

The size of a fighter squadron probably serves an equivalent function to hull strength/shield strength of capital ships, not a factor for firepower, i.e. "72" is just for player consumption.

 

I don't think Rebellion event attempts to emulate the X-W/T-F/XvT tactical engine

 

Fighters seem to use torpedoes only when the target's shields have gone. Has anybody tried using TIE bombers to attack rebel ships, or just fighters/interceptors (I admit I don't bother with bombers).

 

ISD lack laser cannons (but so do calamari cruisers).

 

Ian.

[irwoodhouse]

Oops, the first "Fighters" in paragraph 3 above doesn't mean TIE fighters, in case it's confusing

[UntimelyDemise]

I've used TIE Bombers and the only real use for them is suicide ships. The Rebel fighters tend to concentrate all their firepower on the Bombers instead of going after cap ships or fighters. This leaves TIE Fighters and Carracks to rip the Rebel scum to shreds!

[greenmm]

Key to defense:

 

1 or 2 shield generators

1 LNR

optional KDY

6 fighters minimum

 

Early in the game, when the enemy can't send too much against you, this should help prevent your being bombarded into dust.

 

Sure, you don't get your refineries and mines as quickly, but it allows you to better keep what you do have.

 

Also, I strongly suggest using the manual's suggestion. Picking 1 planet as your construction depot, 1 as your shipyard, and 1 as your academy per sector allows stuff to be built and deployed much more quickly. Nothing like cutting the construction time for an ISD to 1/4 normal...

[teukros]

Now it's my turn to apologise for not posting earlier, I just moved this past weekend and internet service was finally restored this afternoon!

 

I love shields. Just can't get enough of them. Really, really can't get enough of them! One per planet doesn't seem to be enough, there have to be two. Three if you want some insurance against sabotage. But how on earth can you build that many per planet? It's impossible. No matter which side I am playing I always run into a supply bottleneck, because in the first hundred turns or so there is no other option than to have your construction yards build more construction yards! And then training facilities because it takes so damned long to build troops. And then shipyards (especially if playing the Rebs for X-Wing fighters and Corellian Corvettes). Of course by this time it is taking twice as long to build anything as it should because there aren't enough mines or refineries to supply everything. Having your construction yards make mines and refineries a priority is fine except that building _them_ adds to the undersupply - overutilisation problem and it means that you are not building other things that need to be built, like shields! The long and the short of it is, unless you have already pulled so far out in front that your opponent has long since conceded the game, you are going to have worlds which are vulnerable to planetary bombardment. If your opponent never bothered a world except to invade it, well that would be great. With advance warning scrap all mines and refineries at the target system, otherwise he only has so many troops and those troops he just landed will not be used elsewhere for a very long time. But even the Alliance can't win this game by playing all nicey nice. The biggest and baddest wolf, whose slash and fades slash deepest, will often win.

 

Incidentally my model is as follows: For every sector, one system with two const. yards, two training facilities, two shields and one planetary battery, a second system with two const. yards, three shipyards, two shields and one battery, and a third system with two const. yards, five shipyards, two shields and one battery. With a half dozen or so regiments per production system of course. These are minimums, although of course all eight shipyards never get built until the supply problems are (mostly) ironed out. Ideally the other controlled systems in that sector will each have at least one planetary shield generator, but who is going to have the time to build them? :-/

 

teukros

[the_mask]

About the fighters, you can use RebEd to make it more fair

And they do only use their torps, when the shields are down, although they do have an unlimited supply of them

 

I always wanted to board one of the fighters myself, like in the X-Wing game-series. One malfunctioning Y-Wing taking down a whole wing of Interceptors, then the ISD ... hehehe... tremble

[ElvisMiggell]

Nope, i find the best thing to do is to build as many shipyards as possible. The more shipyards on one planet the faster the research goes. Get as many researchers on that planet as possible. Ideally you want at least 10 shipyards. The research until you get some decent capital ships. The best way to defend each planet is to have a small fleet on each. Although it takes longer to build up the size of your empire it turns out to be more rewarding because as you start to dominate the game you don't have to protect your planets so much and you can draw off your ships to confront your opposition.

[glandry]

I only build defenses on planets where I have important production facilities, like shipyards, training facilities or contruction yards. For those planets, I put 2 gencores and either 9 Sullustan or 3 Dark Trooper regiments, to prevent sabotage. That's it. The rest gets nothing. Sure the AI comes along now and then to bomb or sometimes assault the planet, but I keep a decent sized fleet in each sector and just bomb those poor bastards the AI dropped on my planet. This helps keep maximum maintenance free for attack fleets. I used to play super defensive, now I play super offensive.

[UntimelyDemise]

Hahahahahaha....I love the way you describe that...I just bomb the poor bastards...hahahahahahahaha

[ElvisMiggell]

He he he, Untimely, glandry made a funny!!!

[UntimelyDemise]

Yes, he did...

[Skynxnex]

I find even with 10 shipyards my research is still plodding along, despite having 2-3 guys doing ship research missions.

[glandry]

Yeah, I find the ship research takes the longest. I haven't found a way to speed this up. I get my three guys on it right away but it still takes forever...

[UntimelyDemise]

I use RebEd to edit the research skills to 150 for each of the three. That speeds it up a little...

[ElvisMiggell]

Or you can edit other characters so you can have ten or so doing research.

[irwoodhouse]

Teukros mentioned that, in each sector, he uses three separate systems each with two construction yards.

 

My preference is for one system with six CYs.

 

When building 3 of a given item, each of us will complete the build at the same time. However, using six together means I will have the use of the first two earlier, whereas his will deploy at roughly the same time - and at the very end of the build. I'd also have the advantage for single-item builds, such as replacing a sabotaged shield.

 

Obviously I have more to lose if that one system with all my CYs is taken - but I shield everything twice (including systems with just mines/refineries) and keep troops at hand.

 

Have I missed an advantage by not separating my construction yards? Does anyone have a "third way" to suggest?

 

Ian.

 

p.s. "system" == "planet"

[greenmm]

Or you can edit other characters so you can have ten or so doing research.

 

That reminds me...

 

Supposedly, the SW material (either canon or EU, can't remember which) says that Ackbar was responsible for the design of the B-Wing, which provides Rebellion with the reasoning for allowing him to research starships, right?

 

Well, the same material credits Dodonna with designing the A-Wing... but he has no research abilities, let alone starship. And since Wedge and Dodonna are 2 of your starting characters, wouldn't it make sense to let both of them start in on starship design right off the bat?

[ElvisMiggell]

Yep, Ackbar designed the B-wing with a group of Verpine. Dodonna did the A-wing with a guy by the name of Blissex, i think. Certainly no reason why you shouldn't have Dodonna doing a spot of r+d. I think Ackbar had a hand in the E-wing as well.