Decision Time - What Ships

[the_mask]

I agree to leave the MonCal ships in, they are an essential part of the NR fleet , especially during the Thrawn era.

I've been working on the Enforcer class, which is an Immobilizer without the gravity-well generators, but it's still under development, cause I want to try out sticking some textures on it.

 

Has anyone seen models and pics for the Mediator, Viscount, Bothan Assault cruiser and the other NJO ships ? You'll have to bear in mind, that we have to have some references to let the TC still be authentic

[Senator_Elegos_A-Kla]

I've seen a Bothan Assault Cruiser I think on the Wizards of the Coast website. I'll go and check if I can find it.

http://www.wizards.com/starwars/images/sotg_gallery/40151_GS.jpg - Bothan Assault Cruiser (Center of picture).

 

http://www.wizards.com/starwars/images/sotg_gallery/40153_GS.jpg - Defender Star Destroyer.

[Tsunami]

Never possible to tell when a senator will pop up...

About Interdictors:

Make the Immobilizer 418 available from the early stages. The Dominator should be available to both since the NR somewhen (though much after Thrawn) starts producing own Star Destroyers. Dominator becomes available late in the game and is not so easily destroyed as the Immobilizer.

The Sovereign (for which we have a really cool model) also boasts gravity well projectors.

 

In the last part of of the Corellia Trilogy, a Mon Cal frigate is mentioned. Could be an MC-40 or another ship. Got some opts from http://www.xwlegacy.net for XWA which include a frigate like Mon Cal Vessel.

 

There are two contradicting statements about the Viscount Class: One says it's Corellian, some say it's Mon Cal. Its shielding is supposed to stand up to an SSD although it's much smaller and probably weaker in terms of firepower.

 

There are models (though inofficial ones) of Viscount, Bothan Assault Cruiser, Star Defender and Nemesis-Class ISD at http://njoproject.skywalkeronline.net/

 

I strongly vote for the Allegiance Class; it could close the great gap between the ISD II and SSD.

[Trejiuvanat]

In the Star Wars Techinical Commetnaries there's a lot on info on the Calamari and the Imperial ships.

http://theforce.net/swtc/

This is my suggestion

 

Both Sides: 8 ships total

 

Modified Corvette

Nebulon Frigate

Lambda Shuttle

Marauder Corvette

Star Destroyer (By this time the Rebels had major shipyards capable of building ISD, stil they preferred to capture them rather than build them)

Dreadnaught

Bulk Freighter

Bulk Cruiser

 

Rebs: 11 out of 11 total

 

MC-40

MC-80

MC-80b

MC-90

Star Defender

Viscount

Modified Strike Cruiser

Quasar Light Cruiser

Corellian Gunship

Harkners-Balix 903 Freighter(Etherway si one of them, pirates and smugglers aligned themselves with the NR during the Thrawn Crisis(Smugglers Alliance).

Assault Frigate

 

 

 

Imps: 10 out of 10 total

 

Victory II Star Destroyer

Imperial II Star Destroyer

Allegiance Star Destroyer

Sovereign Star Destroyer

Super Star Destroyer

Strike Cruiser

Immobilizer 418

Dominator Interdictor

Enforcer Cruiser

Escort Carrier

 

Imp Superweapon: One imp superweapon

DS II or Pulsar Station

 

8+11+10+1=30 ships

[Tsunami]

Where is the Lancer Frigate?

I also miss the Modified Strike Cruiser for the Rebs and the Eidolon Class for the Empire.

Where to get a model for Allegiance and Enforcer?

 

About Star Defender (=Viscount, made the same error somewhere up) and Mediator:

Since both ships *could* be of Mon Cal Design, we should maybe swith one of them for the Bothan Assault Cruiser just for variety's sake.

 

Think about Nebulon-B and Nebulon-B2 Frigate.

 

ISDs:

The Rebels *should* be able to build some ISDs, but not very early. Maybe just the Dominator, since it becomes available late in the game.

 

These are just my two cents. 'cept for those I pretty much agree.

[Guest JediIgor]

The ship list for the Rebels is in the models forum.. I doubt Gank will be changing it. The ship list for the Empire, however, is open for discussion...

[Tsunami]

I would agree with it save for Republic- and Nebula Class Star Destroyers and the Medium transport. The transport is just a divergence in opinions between me and Gank and a matter of personal taste.

The Star Destroyers are a different problem, since we don't have models for them (we have for Mediator, Viscount and Bothan Assault Cruiser) and they make only few appearances. To me it does not matter if we go 18 or 26 years from Thrawn.

[Gank]

Dont be making choices based on what models are out there and what aren't, most if not all xwa and swma models are unsuitable for our purposes and its far easier to start something fresh than mess with somebody elses work. Remember too its not just as simple as asking people can we use their work, it can takes weeks to track down the original modeller and even then they can still say no. In the case of the njo team nothing has been released yet and most likely wont be for a while so unless you've actually spoken with one of them we have no models for those ships.

 

Anyways SD models are very straight forward, for the Nebula and Republic no references exist I think so we'll have to come up with something but Alleigence is a hangerless, upscaled ISD (2200m) and the enforcer is an Int minus grav-wells and I have models for both.

[Tsunami]

OK. Tremendously close to the dark side, I ventured, for the easy path I intended to take.

As I understood it, Mask converted XWA models and reduced polycount and all those things. If you can make models from scratch, that's even better.

Only thing that bothers me is that we'd make up stats for the new SDs, but hey, we'd be doing the same with the other ships from NJO and such (only that we have a little more information about those).

 

Star Destroyers are fine with me, but we need to make sure that not every major warship is an SD.

 

The enforcer is a really good idea; the Empire desperately needs such a warship.

 

Timescale: I don't exactly remember where the Republic and Nebula Classes appeared (when they were designed and built), but they had their first big (and seems like) and only larger engagement in the Black Fleet Crisis, although it is very likely that these specific ships were just not mentioned later even though they were in use. But Black fleet Crisis and NJO are only 8 years apart; the Mediator was commissioned by that time and the Viscount as a reaction to the Crisis. And when NJO starts, all these ships have already seen action for some time.

When we don't make SSDs available to the rebels, they have no ship that can take a beating from an SSD and live. The Viscount was specifically designed for that task, but its weaponry is likely MUCH inferior.

[ElvisMiggell]

About the SSD thing, the Mc90 can match an SSD. The Mon Remonda had strong enough shield to give an SSD a good licking, and with a trio of standard Mc80a's they could take an SSD.

 

The problem is, ship the size of an SSD or Mc90 just don't blow up, they're too big to vaporize with any sort of explosion.

[Guest JediIgor]

You guys wanted the New Republic to have Star Destroyers? (cough rhetorical question cough) That's exactly what me and Gank negotiated.. we gave you what you wanted

[Gank]

Republic and Nebula appeared 8 and 11 years after endor iirc, so they slot into the timeline nicely. As for the rebels not having a ship that can face off an SSD they're not meant to at this time, nor should they in the near future. They have smaller cheaper ships which can gang up on an SSD.

 

A MC90 is smaller than an ISD, same with the MC80b, there is no way either of them are going to stand up to a SSD.

[Tsunami]

Exactly my thoughts on SSDs.

Although the MC-80b should be able to stand up to an ISD II, and the MC-90 (such as the second Defiance and the Galactic Voyager) should be able to give it a run for it's money.

[ElvisMiggell]

Okay, you win on the size thing, i did some more checking.

 

 

BUT!!!!!! This leaves us with a problem, if the Mc90 is roiughly the same size as the Mc80...

 

Remember how small the Mc80 is compared to the SSD in the game, aren't we going to have scale problems, as soon as a Sovereign appears on the scene, an Mc80 becomes so small you can barely see it. Thoughts?

[Tsunami]

If we go for the SSD's real size (which is 17+ km), the Sovereign isn't much larger. But we don't have a model in the right size. Maybe Mask can come up with one in the right scale.

[ElvisMiggell]

Guys, can we just state a size for each ship and then agree to it. Let's face it, there's a lot of differing source material out there, both on the size of SSDs, and on the size of every single Mon Cal ship ever made.

 

So lets define the length in terms of how much bigger they are than an ISD MKI or II (they're both the same length).

 

We need lengths for;

 

Eclipse

Sovereign

Executor Class SSD

Allegiance Class SSD

Victory

Mc90

Mc80b

Mc80a

Mc40

Home One

 

Bear in mind that i'm talking about the actual scales in the game, not necessarily what you believe to be true.

 

e.g. The biggest ship should APPEAR to be a maximum of ten times the length of an ISD, in my humble opinion.

[Tsunami]

This is from http://www.theforce.net/swtc/warships.html

 

Allegiance: 2,2 km

Republic: 1,25 km

Executor: 17,6 km

Sovereign: 15,0 km

Eclipse: 17,5/16,0 km

Imperator: 1,6

Victory: 0,9

MC-80/MC-80a/MC-80b: 1,2 km

MC-90: 1,255 km

MC-40: 0,5 km

Home One: 3,8 km

 

Mediator: More than 1,6 km

Viscount: at least 6,0 km

[ElvisMiggell]

Sounds good to me, as long as the MonCal ships are reconisable. I'd also advise that we make the Eclipse, SSD, and Sovereign a bit smaller, just for sensibility in the tactical screen.

[Guest JediIgor]

I think we should go with the 12km from starwars.com for the SSD.

 

They made the movie after all, don't you think they would know?

[ElvisMiggell]

Sounds good to me. Is there a unit of length in the modeler program when you make the model? How many units long is an ISD in the program, and how many is the Sovereign model? Ideally i'd say that for the purposes of the game, the Sovereign and Eclipse models should be about half the size they are now, and very very expensive. This way they look nice and big, but don't make the other ships seem too small, and you'll only get two or three in a huge fleet.

 

I've always thought of the SSD as smaller than a SSSD or ESSD, so make the model of the SSD about 2/3rds the size of the ESSD or SSSD models.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Tsunami]

I think we should chose Eclipse or Sovereign. They have exactly the same purpose/function/strenghts/weaknesses. No point in having both.

 

JediIgor: I, too, thought they knew, but they don't. They even brought up this five-mile-nonsense. In the movies and even in TIE Fighter, the SSD is at least 11 times the size of an ISD.

But 12 km is fine for the game. But in the original game, the SSD was tiny.

[Trejiuvanat]

I agree, Tsunami.

It would be overkill to have both sovereign and Eclipse, unless you give them high maintenance and contruction points to avoid lots of them appearing everywhere.

I looked up their stats and cam eo the conclusion that the Soverign has only very slightly shields and hull.

Weapon and weapons arc and range are identical.

I have to see about he starfighters.

Anyway I'd go for Eclipse.

[Tsunami]

I'd go for Sovereign. The ship is 'less overkill' than the Eclipse. Game balancing will be very difficult. The Sovereign is considerably less powerful than the Eclipse but still able to whack an SSD into three days from next week.

[Tsunami]

Pulled some stats for comparison:

 

NAME/TYPE: Eclipse-class Command Ship

DESIGNER/MANUFACTURER: Kuat Drive Yards

COMBAT DESIGNATION: Battleship

LENGTH: standard 16,000 meters, prototype 17,500 meters

CREW: 708,470 crew; 4,175 gunners

PASSENGERS: 150,000 troops

SPEED RATING: 40 MGLT

HYPERDRIVE: x2

HULL RATING: approximately 65000 RU

SHIELD RATING: approximately 120000 SBD

CONSUMABLES: 10 years

WEAPONS: 550 Taim & Bak Heavy Laser Cannons;

500 Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries;

75 Borstel Ion Cannon Batteries;

100 Phylon Tractor Beam Projectors;

10 Sienar Fleet Systems Gravity Well Projectors;

Axial Superlaser (Planet-Destroyer)*

 

STARFIGHTER SQUADRONS: 50 TIE Interceptor Squads, 8 TIE Bomber Squads

 

PLANETARY ASSAULT TROOPS: 100 AT-AT walkers; 150 AT-ST walkers;

5 Pre-fabricated Garrison Bases

 

OTHER ONBOARD CRAFT: 40 Lambda-Class Imperial Shuttles;

35 Assault Shuttles

 

 

NAME/TYPE: Sovereign-class Command Ship

DESIGNER/MANUFACTURER: Kuat Drive Yards

COMBAT DESIGNATION: Battleship

LENGTH: 15,000 meters

CREW: 601,670 crew; 4,075 gunners

PASSENGERS: 130,100 troops

SPEED RATING: 30 MGLT

HYPERDRIVE: x3

HULL RATING: approximately 47000 RU

SHIELD RATING: approximately 96000 SBD

CONSUMABLES: 5 years

WEAPONS: 500 Taim & Bak Heavy Laser Cannons;

500 Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries;

75 Borstel Ion Cannon Batteries;

100 Phylon Tractor Beam Projectors;

5 Sienar Fleet Systems Gravity Well Projectors;

Axial Superlaser (Planet-Destroyer)*

 

STARFIGHTER SQUADRONS: 35 TIE Interceptor Squads, 5 TIE Bomber Squads

 

PLANETARY ASSAULT TROOPS: 75 AT-AT walkers; 100 AT-ST walkers; 5

Pre-fabricated Garrison Bases

 

OTHER ONBOARD CRAFT: 35 Lambda-Class Imperial Shuttles; 30 Assault

Shuttles

 

NAME/TYPE: Executor-class Command Ship

DESIGNER/MANUFACTURER: Lira Wessex/Kuat Drive Yards

COMBAT DESIGNATION: Battleship

LENGTH: 8,000 meters

CREW: 279,144; 1,590 gunners

PASSENGERS: 38,000 troops

SPEED RATING: 40 MGLT

HYPERDRIVE: x2

HULL RATING: 45712 RU

SHIELD RATING: 96000 SBD

CONSUMABLES: 6 years

WEAPONS: 250 Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries;

250 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Batteries;

250 Borstel Ion Cannon Batteries;

250 Krupx Concussion Missile Tubes;

40 Phylon Tractor Beam Projectors

 

STARFIGHTER SQUADRONS: 2 Squads of TIE Interceptors; 2 Squads of

TIE Bombers; 8 Squads of TIE Fighters

 

PLANETARY ASSAULT TROOPS: Full Corps of Stormtroopers and other soldiers;

25 AT-AT walkers; 50 AT-ST walkers; 3 Pre-fabricated Garrison Bases

 

OTHER ONBOARD CRAFT: 20 Lambda-Class Imperial Shuttles;

15 Assault Shuttles; 10 Assault Gunboats

 

(The length is wrong (in most opinions, at least) and should be 17,600 meters).

 

NAME/TYPE: Imperator II-class Star Destroyer

DESIGNER/MANUFACTURER: Kuat Drive Yards

COMBAT DESIGNATION: Battlecruiser

LENGTH: 1,600 meters

CREW: 36,755 crew; 330 gunners

PASSENGERS: 9,700 troops

SPEED RATING: 60 MGLT

HYPERDRIVE: x1

HULL RATING: 2272 RU

SHIELD RATING: 5760 SBD

CONSUMABLES: 6 years

WEAPONS: 50 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Batteries;

50 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Cannons;

20 Borstel Ion Cannon Batteries;

10 Phylon Tractor Beam Projectors

 

STARFIGHTER SQUADRONS: Standard compliment of 3 TIE Fighter Squadrons;

2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons; 1 TIE Bomber Squadron

(for other TIE compliments,see below)

 

PLANETARY ASSAULT TROOPS: Full Standard Stormtrooper

Division; 12 Landing Barges; 20 AT-AT walkers; 30 AT-ST

walkers; 1 Pre-fab Garrison base

OTHER ONBOARD CRAFT: 8 Lambda-class Imperial Shuttles;

10 Assault Shuttles; 5 Assault Gunboats

 

 

Got it from http://www.hyperjump.net/swguides/sdguide/sdguide.html

[ElvisMiggell]

Right, so an SSD which is the same size as an Eclipse, has only half the guns?