Decision Time - What Ships

[Tsunami]

Of course we have to ask for permission, but we could (theroretically speaking) take this cool MC104 model and use it as a Mediator-Class ship.

 

I was busy looking up ship stats in XWA. Appears like the MC80b should be able to fight and ISD II to a standstill.

[Guest JediIgor]

All right, people let's look over this.. Now I would like to share my opinion .

 

First the fighters: Do they still use TIE Bombers? I thought the TIE Scimitars replaced them.. No research should be done for that. The TIE Defender should be more stronger, but should also cost more (unless it is already strong enough). The TIE Scimitar should cost a little more than a TIE Bomber, since it has shields.

 

For the NR fighters: We should fit the K-Wings (were those researched yet?) and the E-Wings (were these researched either?), along with the X-Wings. The 4th ship... probably an A-Wing, since they still used those in the X-Wing Series.

 

For the capital ships: Remember that the reason the Empire built the Sovereigns/Eclipses/Super Star Destroyers is to show that they had unlimited power, and thus we should make these insanely expensive, but also as strong as they were in the books. NR on the other hand, need not necessarily have counterparts for everything (strength in numbers! mon cal's have better shielding than ISDs). I also think that the NR should be able to build some of the Imperial ships, such as maybe an ISD MkI, and an SSD, since they obviously have those ships in their fleet (but maybe we could get them to research it.. the ships).

 

With this all done and said.. what is a "Pulsar station" that I heard of being discussed as the Imperial super-weapon? What book was it in? Was it actually built? We could make a list of Imperial super-weapons, and then pick the most logical one.

 

With that being done & said... the only problem that I see here left is the Imperial fighters; some should be researched, and maybe we could fit something in that was researched later.. TIE Droid maybe? Cheap and mass-produced.

[ElvisMiggell]

It's in the Rogue Squadron books where Isaard reappears. It's a much smaller DS, with multiple beam weapons, none strong enough to destroy a planet, but all strong enough to take out a capital ship. It had multiple exits for the superlaser so that i didn't have to turn to face it's enemy, but could only fire one shot at a time. Covered in lasers and turbolasers it was supposed to be the ultimate threat to a fleet.

[Tsunami]

It was never built. In fact, it was just a fanke made up by Isard to cause political stirrings.

 

Lets make a list, shall we?

OK, each side has 15 ships, some of them could be used for both sides such as:

Dreadnaught

Corellian Corvette

Nebulon-B Frigate

Strike Cruiser

 

Four down, 26 to go. Now, to the fixed ones (that certainly will be in there).

 

Rebels:

Corellian Gunship

Assault Frigate

Quasar Fire Class Starfighter Carrier

MC40

MC80a

MC80b

MC90

YT 1300 (Mask is already working on this. Used as a capital ship with minimal strength to haul personnel around)

Action Transport

Modified Strike Cruiser (w/ gravity well projectors like the Peregrine)

10 ships total.

 

Imps:

Lancer

Carrack

Immobilizer Class Interdictor

Executor Class Star Destroyer

ISD II

VSD II

Escort Carrier

Sovereign

Delta DX Transport (like YT 1300)

Star Galleon

Death Star/Death Star II/Pulsar Station

10 ships + Death Star.

 

25 down, five to go.

 

Suggestions:

 

Dominator Class Interdictor:

Pro: The Immobilizer Class was very vulnerable. Blow up the Interdictor with a few starfighter squads, then flee. Worked very good. So the Dominator has a real purpose.

Contra: With the Sovereign and the Immobilizer, the Empire already has two Interdictors.

 

Marauder Corvette:

Pro: Another small ship, but more suited to capital ship fights than to starfighter defense. Looks damn cool

Contra: Too many small ships in the game? Would it be really different from other ships?

 

Eclipse Class:

Pro: We already have a model. Cool ship. Looks intimidating.

Contra: The Empire has already two megaships. The Sovereign is easier to use (it's not supposed to have a superlaser). If the Sovereign is in the game, the Eclipse has no different role.

 

Kaloth Battlecruiser:

Pro: Never really seen. Cool name. We could really use another heavy cruiser/support ship.

Contra: Where do we get a model?

 

Allegiance Class:

Pro: Another Star Destroyer. go for more diversity. More powerful than the ISD II, but significantl less costly than a Sovereign or Executor class ship.

Contra: I have yet to see a model and stats for this one. ANOTHER Star Destroyer?

 

Some other troop transports:

Pro: In my list, there ist jus one personnel carrier and a big troop carrier. We could use another small troop carrier (Assault transport) that carries less, but is cheaper to produce and generally faster and better armed.

Contra: Do we really need it?

 

ISD I and VSD I:

Pro: We could make them available only to the Rebels. They are no longer produced by the Empire. This all could simulate that the Rebels use captured, outdated ships.

Contra: Star Destroyers... lots of Star Destroyers.

 

Another Mon Cal Cruiser:

Pro: Hey, the are cool.

Contra: Which one to choose? Home One was a single ship (AFAIK). The Mediator is far in the future.

 

Bothan Assault Cruiser:

Pro: A really new design which should look consederably different from the other ships. There is a New Jedi Order Project for XWA, and they worked up a model. We could ask them for it. (It looks nice, btw.)

Contra: See Mediator. Far future.

 

Suggestions?

[Guest JediIgor]

Good list, but we should add some ships that need to be researched by the player, such as the Bothan Assault Cruiser.

[Tsunami]

Yeah, that's a problem. But in many cases we could justify making the ships not available from the start, like the Modified Corvette and Nebulon-B Frigate. There were several models of those, and in Rebellion Reloaded, the latest and best model becomes available. Even with the SSD there were several changes made to the basics over time.

I would vote for one Calamari Cruiser from the start (plus the MC40), all others into research. Katana Dreadnaughts into research. Maybe even Interdictors (on the first or second place), since it seems kinda unfair for one side to be able to build interdictors from the begining.

[Guest JediIgor]

We could only have the newer Interdictors in the game (418 for Empire for example, not sure what for NR though), so that they would have to be researched..

 

As for the MCs, we could include an MC80a as an equivalent to ISD I perhaps, and an MC40 as an equivalent to the VSD I?

[Tsunami]

The NR never officially had any Interdictors. Some captured ones, and some modified Strike Cruiser called Peregrine (XvT). But if they were to put the Strike into mass production, we should put it into research.

Great idea about the Immobilizer-418.

The MC-40 is more like a Carrack Cruiser... But the MC-80a is a rough equivalent of the ISD I. The MC-80b is more than a match to the ISD II and the MC-90 is somewhere between the MC-80b and the SSD.

I looked up the Marauder's stats in XWA. Boy, this thing can take a beating! Like a Dreadnaught or something. Must be an error, and the Corellian Corvettes are kinda weakish in XWA.

 

What about the Dominator?

[Guest JediIgor]

Hmm... I think we should take all the stats out of XWA (number of cannons, speed, shield strength etc) or at least as much as possible.

 

What is this "Dominator" you speak of?

 

As for the MC40, maybe we could have it replace the carrack cruiser? I still think we should get rid of the older ships, and have the modern ones instead, that way we can add more ships to the game

 

After all, we don't see the Empire using the Republic cruiser do we? Nor the Naboo starfighters

[Tsunami]

If we get rid of the older ships, we simply don't have enough!

My first idea was to get rid of the ISD I and VSD I, but I could not find enough ships to boot.

Rightt now, my list looks as follows:

 

MC-80a - ISD II

Assault Frigate - VSD II

MC-40 - Carrack

Corellian Gunship - Lancer Frigate

Quasar Fire Carrier - Imperial Escort Carrier

YT1300 - Delta DX/Lambda/Sentinel

A-Wing - TIE Interceptor

B-Wing - TIE Bomber

---Research starts here---

Modified Corvette - Modified Corvette

Marauder - Interdictor

Modified Frigate - Modified Frigate

Katana Dreadnaught - Katana Dreadnaught

Modified Strike Cruiser - Strike Cruiser

MC-80b - SSD

Bulk Transport - Bulk Transport

X-Wing - Allegiance ISD

MC-90 - Scimitar

E-Wing - Eidolon Class Strike Cruiser

Dominator - Dominator

Bothan Assault Cruiser - Nemesis ISD

Viscount Star Defender - Sovereign

 

The Dominator is just like an ISD II equiped with gravity well projectors.

The Nemesis ISD is a ship made up by the guys at the NJO Project, but it looks really authentic and has a great model. They also have models for Mediator and Bothan Assault Cruisers and the Star Defender.

[Guest JediIgor]

Well, why would they research the Interdictor if they already had it? And why would they research SSDs if there was already one on Coruscant for example?

 

SSDs shouldn't be researched.. nor Marauders; like I said why research something if we already know it was researched?

 

We could let the Rebels research Dominator, and the Imperials research 418 Immobilizer.

 

What is this Eidolon strike cruiser..? From what I know, only a prototype was built and it was never mass produced (the ship wasn't space worthy).

 

If we could REALLY edit the game, we could introduce the Katana Dreadnaught fleet at a random planet.. but we can't, so I don't understand the need for Katana Dreadnaughts..? (please explain )

 

Also, do we really need 2 ships for both sides with gravity well projectors? It should be one, and it should be researched later in the game, or that's what I thought most people thought.

[Tsunami]

Two ships with gravity well projectors:

The Imperials actually get three (Sovereign). The first one is kinda weakish; four squads of bomber blow it away in no time. The second one is more durable.

As for the Interdictor:

First thing: It would be really unfair and unbalancing to have an Interdictor available form the start. All early strikes in the early stage of the game would be foiled, since you risked your fleet on a scout run.

Let the Immobilizer 418 be an upgrade to the original one; some explanation why it is not available from the start.

As I understand it, the Katana Dreadnaughts used some kind of special automatisation to make them operational with les than 16k personnel aboard. Assume the Empire and the New Republic got hold of this (thought lost) technology. Lower production and maintainance cost; compared to the other warships, the Dreadnaught is really crappy.

I'd really like the idea of the Katana Fleet, but it's impossible.

 

There should be a greater difference in production cost between the really large ships and the small, light ships. An ISD is worth more than four Corellian Corvettes.

 

PS: Sorry about my spelling. Just got home from a party. Maybe I'll correct the mistakes when I'm sober.

[Gank]

Urrgh suppose I should have come in here before I posted on the model forums. Bah

[Gank]

Ok read through all this and some nice ideas in here but can we transfer it over to the modelling section please, sos i dont embarrass masel again

Anyways just i responce to a few things, DX9 and YT1300 are fighter size and a waste of a slot imo, Bothan, Viscount and Nemesis are all from the yuzzan vong period, Eclipse and Sovvie uuuurgh super ships, Marauder corvette isn't really used by either side, CSA ship iirc and mod corvettes a pos. Katana fleet dreads should be in imo, and researchable too (ya gotta find them remember) just make them fairly cheap. And theres no real need for an equivelent ship on each side, that can be balanced with prices etc and isnt very canon anyways.

[Tsunami]

I was very positive about the YT 1300. The game could use some light transports just for personnel. Since I found them in John M. Stones 'Special Edition', I use them and like them.

Star Defender is more like from the Hand of Thrawn time, but I understand what you mean. But as Igor said, we NEED to get into the future to have some real development.

The Marauder wasn't used much since it's a corporate design. But they regulearly appeared in books and games, look cool, have some punch and could be fun.

I completely agree with you about equivalent ships. This is exactly the reason why we really should get the decisions on ships done since we'll need a lot of playtesting and game balancin.

[Gank]

Well the main problem i can see with the yt1300 and Dx9 is that they're tiny and wouldnt be visible unless you zoomed in on them. Plus they have absolutly no combat value on their own and arent large enough to transport any amount of troops realisticly. So you'd be left with a ship thats only good for ferrying characters and spec-ops around. A waste of a slot imo.

As for getting into the future i know what you mean but the only real options of advancing in ships are the very near; MC90, 80B, Alliegence, Dominator etc and the very far; Bothan AC, Mediator, Viscount etc.

Btw I'm a stickler for canon, which is why the marauder doesnt appeal to me.

[ElvisMiggell]

The Marauder has appeared in several books, i think, the idea being that it was a cheap oldish cap ship, that pirates favoured, but the Rebs could conceivably have used them because they were cheap and pretty rugged.

[Gank]

The Marauders the main cap ship of the Corporate Sector Authority. I dont recall it being in rebel hands in any book or comic and as such isnt a good ship to be giving to the rebel side imo. And remember they aren't the rebels anymore its the new republic with access to heavy shipyards and no real need to press any old ship into service anymore. In fact its the Imps who have a shortage of ships during the Thrawn trilogy -> Sluis Van

[Tsunami]

You have a point there.

Actually, Han Solo used a Marauder in his hunt for Zsinj. And if you remember the ship from XWA: It's old, but it packs a helluva punch for a ship of this size and is quite sturdy.

[ElvisMiggell]

The Marauder is a good ship, if we can find something better, then i think we should use that, fair enough, but if not, let's go with the Marauder.

 

All you people talking about canon; what cannon are you talking about? The films, the Lucas approved books, the Lucas approved games? What makes a source canon? Might we be getting a little carried away here?

[Senator_Elegos_A-Kla]

Since there are 30 ship slots, I think there should be 5 ships available to both sides, which would give each side 12 ships they could build/research.

 

IMO, I think the list should look like:

 

Both Sides

 

• Dreadnaught (Katana Fleet Dreadnaughts possibly - Darker hull color)
  Corellian Corvette
  Nebulon-B Frigate
  Strike Cruiser
  Marauder Corvette (The NR had some in thier fleet & IIRC, the CSA was loosly affiliated with the Empire, so they could have lent them some to patrol backwater systems)

 

New Republic

 

• Quaser Fire-class Starfighter Carrier
  Assault Frigate
  MC-40
  MC-80A
  MC-80b
  MC-90
  YT-1300 Light Freighter
  Action-series Transport (Possibly modified to have some small anti-starfighter weaponary, like the Wild Karrde)
  Corellian Gunship
  Bothan Assault Cruiser (To be researched a long way in to the game)

 

Galactic Empire

 

• Lancer Frigate
  Imperial-II Star Destroyer
  Victory-II Star Destroyer
  Executor-class Star Destroyer
  Imperial Escort Carrier
  Dx9 Stormtrooper Transport
  Star Galleon
  Dominator-class Interdictor Cruiser (Immobiliser-418s are the regular Interdictors seen throughout Rebellion, XvT, XWA, TIE Fighter. Quoted as such in the Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels)

 

Super Weapon (Possibilities)

 

• Death Star Prototype
  Darksaber
  Galaxy Gun
  World Devastator

 

With that list we would need another 2 ships for the NR (Possibly either a Mediator - Ship clasification unknown, Viscount-class Star Defender, or ships from the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy). For the Empire we would need an extra 4 ships (Possibly the Aramadia-class Thrustships that were used by the Duskhan League, or other Star Destroyer types Ie: Adz-class, etc.)

 

I would also choose to take out the YT-1300 and Dx9, since thier use could easily be supplemented by a Corellian Corvette, or we might make a T-4a Lambda-class shuttle and put the Strike Cruiser back in the Imperial list. I would also like to remove the Quasar Fire-class Starfighter Carrier and replace it with an Endurance-class Fleet Carrier. And change the MC-40 to something else like a Ranger-class Gunship or something more modern (As far as the EU's storyline goes). And I'd possibly take out the MC-90 and the MC-80A as well and swap them with another ship type. That means we'll get a diverisfied list without too many redundancies.

[ElvisMiggell]

OKay, well;

 

Your choice for both sides seems pretty good. I like your choice for the Rebels, maybe instead of replacing the Quasar with a fleet carrier we should have both, to reflect the Rebels use of many starfighters?

 

For the Empire i think we should use the Sovereign and/or the Eclipse class, plus some others.

 

Leave the Mc90 and the Mc80A in, we love Mon Cal ships. What did the Mon Cal guys use for 'small' capital ships apart from the Mc40? Or did they use other Republic ships?

 

Really i'd like to keep all the Mon Cal ships.

[Senator_Elegos_A-Kla]

To help with finding ships to add in for the TC, I've made a list of ships. These are taken from CUSWE.

 

Star Destroyer

 

Defender-class Star Destroyer - BFC

Eclipse-class Star Destroyer - DE

Imperial-I class Star Destroyer - SWR

Imperial-II class Star Destroyer - SWR

Nebula-class Star Destroyer - BFC

Republic-class Star Destroyer - BFC

Sovereign-Class Star Destroyer - DE

Super-class Star Destroyer - SWR

Victory-I class Star Destroyer - SWR

Victory-II class Star Destroyer - SWR

 

Frigate

Alderaanian War Frigate - BW

Assault Frigate - SWR

Attack Frigate - WG, HTTE

CC-7700 - SWR

CC-9600 - SWR

Corona-class Frigate - BFC

Hapan Stinger - L

Imperial Customs Frigate - FOP

Mansk-class Escort - TSIA

Nebulon-B Frigate - SWR

Nebulon-B2 Frigate - XWA

Pacifier - SOP

Patrol Frigate - CTD

Sacheen-class Escort Ship - BFC

Spiral-class Assault Ship - BI

Star Galleon-class Frigate - SWR

 

Dreadnaught

 

Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser - SWR

Invincible-class Dreadnaught - CSA

Mandator-class Star Dreadnaught - CW

 

Cruisers

 

Akorec Strike Cruiser - SWG5

Aramand System Cruiser III - FBS

Bayonet-class Light Cruiser - PG3

Belarus-class Cruiser - BFS

Beta Cruiser - NJO

Bothan Assault Cruiser - NJO

Bulk Cruiser - SWR

Bulwark Battlecruiser - SWR

Carrack-class Cruiser - SWR

Class 1000 Cruiser - GG6

Dauntless-class Cruiser - SWR

Enforcer-class Picket Cruiser - TFE

Immobilizer 418 - SWR

Immobilizer 418A - NJO

Kaloth Battlecruiser - SOP

Liberator Cruiser - SWR

Majestic-class Heavy Cruiser - BFC

Marauder-class Cruiser - SC

MC40a - XWA

MC80a - SWR

MC80b - IF

MC90 - DE

Mediator-class Battle Cruiser - NJO

Namana-class Light Cruiser - CT

Nova-class Battle Cruiser - CPL

Strike-class Cruiser - SWR

Tapani-class Cruiser - LOE

Thranta-class War Cruiser - BW

Vindicator-class Heavy Cruiser - SOG

 

Corvette

 

CR90 Corellian Corvette - SWR

Corellian Gunship - SWR

Ranger Gunship - NJO

[ElvisMiggell]

What is the CUSWE?

 

Yeah, i checked last night, the Allegiance was a Super class, looked like a normal ISD II, but the same size as the Executer, and the Superstructure looks more bulked out.

[Guest JediIgor]

http://www1.theforce.net/CUSWE/default.asp

 

BTW, Gank's idea was to use a modified Bulk Cruiser as the NR Carrier, since the books reflect that during the Thrawn period the New Republic was refitting Bulk Cruisers to carry around fighters.