Decision Time - What Ships

[ElvisMiggell]

Okay guys, we need to get a move on. What ships do we want?

 

There are two different things we need to decide at first.

1: What fighters we want.

2: What capital ships we want.

 

First, the fighters.

A quick brainstorm came up with these ideas;

 

Awing

Bwing

Ewing

Xwing and,

Kwing

 

I'd hesitate to drop any of these as they are all good ships, but i think we can only have four on each side. My guess would be the Kwing as it's not that well known, but it does provide the heavy bomber upgrade to the Bwing.

 

On the Imperial side of things we have;

 

Tie Fighter

Tie Interceptor

Tie Bomber

Tie Defender

Tie Scimiter

 

Again we need to drop one, my best guess being the original fighter, and have the Interceptor as our baseline fighter.

 

Then we have capital ships. I believe we have twelve on each side, although the Imps have to retain the Death Star, so we really only have 11 spaces for them.

 

However I have no idea which ships we should have.

 

Suggestions please.

 

[the_mask]

We could drop the Tie/B, cause the Scimitar has improved performance and IIRC Thrawn intended to do this.

 

There could also be the Assault Gunboat, the Missile Boat on the other hand would be too efficient and give the Empire too much of an edge.

[ElvisMiggell]

Yeah could do, it's a pity you can't start off with the Tie bomber, and then when you research the Tie Scimiter it drops the Tie Bomber, but i don't think you can do that.

 

Assault gunboats or Missile boats would be too strong, unless we make the Ewing really good at kiling them, and have only four in a squadron or something?

[ElvisMiggell]

Okay, capital ships, now, i've been thinking, and these seem to representative of each side.

 

Imps: Rebs:

Dreadnought - Katana - Dreadnought

Vic II - Corellian Corvette

Lancer - Corellian Gunship

Imp II - Mc80

Interdictor - Mc40

Carrier - Carrier

SSD - Mc80b

ESSD - Mc150 - some huge ship or other.

Sovereign - Mc90

Light Transport - Action IV Transport

Heavy Transport - Medium Transport

Death Star - Nebulon B

 

I think this provides a reasonable balence.

 

In my opinion a Medium Transport is bigger than an Action IV.

 

Debate at your leisure.

[Evaders99]

Drop the Dreadnaughts... I don't like them, and at this point the few that are left would have been turned into Assault Frigates. This makes more room for "new" ships

[ElvisMiggell]

What about Katana? Give the Rebs Assault Frigates, and the Imps cheaper Katanas that aren't very powerfull?

 

The way i see it is that the Empire needs its better ships to be more expensive. People are going to want ESSD's, but even an Mc90 couldn't take one on alone, so we need to make the ESSD much more expensive than the other ships etc.

 

I think that's the best way to find a realistic balance.

[the_mask]

We could at least drop one Dreadnought, which would give us an additional slot. Katana won't look different.

-Also we could (I'd love to see 'em) add Allegiance and Dominator class Stardestroyers.

-I'll also release the YT series and the Bulk Freighter from the Xwing games.

-What about the Nebulon B2 ?

-We could also add the Assault TRN, or the Delta Class DX9 TRN as a small troop transport for the Empire.

 

-Did anyone ever see a pic/model of the Kaloth battlecruiser ? Maybe that should be the Bulwark, I dunno.

[Tsunami]

We have a serious problem in regard to research. There are simply not enough slots for all our ideas.

 

I agree to having only one Dreadnaught, available for both sides. Maybe it should not be free to build right from the start. Then we have the supposed Katana-Fleet incident and both sides recover some kinda 'lost technology' to automatize their ships. Katana Dreadnaughts cost the same to build as the old ones but only half of the maintainance.

 

I like ElvisMiggell's summary of ships. No ISD-I, no VSD-I. Nebulon, Corvette, Transports and Dreadnaughts for both sides. Maybe change the Nebulon to Modified Frigate (neb-B2) and the Corvette to Modified Corvette. This would justify putting them into research order. Gunship available from the start.

I'm missing the Carrack, though. Nice ship to blow up...

 

Kaloth Battlecruisers! Yeah! Somewhere around the Dreadnaught in strength or a little less (I guess), but cheaper. Might even try the Marauder-Corvettes (damn, gotta find some slots!)

 

About the YT and Delta series: The game could REALLY use some small ships to carry personnel around fast. No troops, a few lasers, no more. So we have two transports per side: One troop carrier and one only for personnel.

 

I would also scrap the MC150 or the like. First of all, if we really go for the authentic ships, we should stick to that concept. And the rebels are not supposed to have really mighty ships and superweapons. Nothing they had was as big as an SSD (except for Lusankya, hehe).

 

Now, fighters. Imps should start with Interceptors and really beefed up Bombers. They were just target practice in Rebellion, but they are supposed to be fast as Y-Wings and nimble as X-Wings. Imps could research Defenders and... Scimitars, Gunboats, Missileboats, (Raptors?) or V38? A9 Vigilance?

 

Rebs start with A- and B-Wings. Why? Incom is (again) lagging behind in production or whatever until they start to produce the T-65C or XJ type or sumthin' like that. The last one could be the E-Wing or K-Wing.

 

 

Could be difficult to get this all right according to timeframe. But so many ships were developed during and after Thrawn...

 

 

(About the ESSD: One could assume that the Player is actually the Clone Emperor, hiding on Byss, directing his troops through the Force and invisible threads.)

[Tsunami]

Forgot about the Kaloth-Modell: I always imagined it a little like the Fralthi-II from Wing Commander... Maybe you could look it up and see how it would fit into the concept.

 

There is also a guy who makes lots of models for XWA, even some Mon Cal Cruisers (MC75, MC80A, MC80B, MC90, MC104). His page is http://www.btinternet.com/~jmdare/optdown.htm

[Guest JediIgor]

For capital ships we can use ships that weren't yet designed in the Thrawn era (so it gives people something to design)..

 

For fighters, we NEED to let the empire have TIE fighters, as they foolishly keep using it years and years after the war has been lost. We can make it even more cheaper though.

 

Rebels MUST have X-Wings, as they keep using it in NJO.

 

So we can't drop either of those,

[TK421]

These are great models..

Can someone convert them?

[TK421]

Igor, in my opinion, TIE fighters weren't used anymore, only TIE interceptors. The Scimitar was developed because Thrawn didn't want unshielded craft, and he was replacing all old TIE's

[Tsunami]

Problem with rebel starfighters is that we cannot let them build three or even four types right from the start. So *maybe* we should keep everyone's favourite X-wing in reserve and justify this by using a newer model (like the XJ type from the beginning of the NJO series.)

Fourth should be the E-wing (if I rightly remember it being introduced during the Thrawn period. It never appears in the books, but somewhere I read FreiTek got the first models out in this time.)

[Guest JediIgor]

Well, it's always been my thought that TIE Fighters have been used even in these late times. Could you please point out from a certain book where it says that they stopped using TIE Fighters?

 

Also.. scimitars.. are those from the books? I don't recall them, except in the comics.

[TK421]

Heir to the Empire:

At some moment, Chewie and Leia go to Honoghr, then Thrawn comes with his ship, and inspects the village where our two heroes stay. Leia then hears 'some of the new TIE scimitars'... or Thrawn ordered two squadrons to come with him.

 

I don't recall in what sort of book (sourcebook, normal book, etc.) it is said that Thrawn dropped the oldest TIE's... In any case, he only uses TIE interceptors.

[Tsunami]

I never read that the Empire officially no longer uses TIE Fighters. I would guess the same thing happening to them as to the rebel Y-Wings: They get drafted to backwater worlds of low importance and thus vanish from view.

I don't believe they were still manufactured when Daala struck. The Interceptors eventually got replaced by A9 Vigilance fighters (I seem to remember from NJO), but this was some twenty years after Thrawn. They never found a fighter that was more powerful than the Interceptor without the cost going through the roof (as with TIE Advanced/Defender).

[ElvisMiggell]

Okay, so Tie Intercepter, Tie Bomber, Tie Scimiter, Tie Defender yeh?

 

What do we think about Alliance fighters then? A-wing X-wing B-wing E-wing? They would more or less match their Imperial counterparts - Awing vs Tie Intercepter,

X-wing vs Tie Bomber,

B-wing vs Scimiter

E-wing vs Defender.

 

Thoughts people?

[Tsunami]

I'd say A-Wing/B-Wing/X-Wing/E-Wing, Imps as you said.

Start off with two specialized fighters, get the allrounders later. Of course we will re-do all the stats. The X-Wing later developed is just a new model (like the XJ type or whatever).

In the early stages the rebs would be clearly superior, and I don't think the Defender (this one needs serious beefing up, it's supposed to be the fastest and most heavy hitting starfighter ever) and Scimitar can bring balance into that, but they are not meant to do this. Starfighters are Rebel Territory.

Edited December 23, 2002 by Tsunami

[ElvisMiggell]

They are Rebel territory, but only because the Empire never threw caution to the winds and mas produced Defenders, or even Intercepters with shields and hyperdrives. Defenders weren't too much of a match for Rogue Squadron, they pushed them, but Rogue Squadron came out trumps in the end. I think the E-wing should be able to give the Defender a run for its money, but would ultimately lose, the advantage being that an E-wing is about half the cost.

[Tsunami]

Hehehe, right you are!

Too bad there isn't any chance for an experience system (like the one in MOO2) in the TC. Rebel starfighter squadrons tend to last long.

 

The Defender should be really superior to all other starfighters, but really costly and expensive to maintain. Make the cost 12/12 or sumthin' like that.

 

What do you think about the MC105 or what the ship would be called? I don't think the Rebels should have any firepower comparable to an SSD.

[ElvisMiggell]

The Mon Remonda was an Mc80b and could almost match an SSD, so an Mc90 should be able to match it easily. The one we have decided shouldn't be matched is the Eclipse. 4 or 5 Mc80b's should just about be able to take on an Eclipsel, or maybe even 4 or 5 Mc90's, so it'll come down to Alliance ships being cheaper, so you could build several Rebel cruisers for the price of one Imp Eclipse.

[Tsunami]

Hmm, didn't think the MC80b almost matched the SSD. It has more guns on the flanks than an SSD can brin to bear at the front, but shielding is much weaker. It was considerably heavier and slower than the MC80a (which was the first Mon Cal Cruiser built for war, the MC80s were the passenger ships etc.), but no match for an SSD. I think it had almost the same length as the MC80a, but more mass due to its different design.

(Most of the info I got from Solo Command, maybe there is something in the comics that contradicts this).

Mon Remonda carried four fighter squads. I think we could justify two regiments.

 

I think the second Defiance (not the one in RotJ) and the Galactic Voyager were of MC90 design. They were more powerful than Home One (or why did Ackbar move his flag?), but Home One was up to this point the only Mon Cal Cruiser which could take on an ISD II without getting itself blow out of space. So my guess would be that the MC90 was on par with the ISD II, if not more powerful.

 

From what I read, the Indomitable during the Black Fleet Crisis could have been an MC90 regarding firepower, fighter complement etc.

 

 

 

If the Rebels had anything comparable to the SSD regarding size and firepower, why would they make such a fuss over Lusankya? And in Rebel Dream/Rebel Stand it is established that Lusankya was the largest strongest warship remaining at that time. I hope not all MC90 and later designs (such as the Star Defender) had perished, if they indeed had been superior to an SSD.

[ElvisMiggell]

Iget the horrible feeling you're right. I think that we should modify the eb ships a little. It's all very well having one ship that the Rebs can't match head to head, but two seems a little extreme. I'm sure that if SSD's had become a regular feature of the SW galaxy then the rebels would have come up with something to match.

 

With reference to the NJO series, i have a feeling military spending was cut right down and several fleets were scrapped, as just prior to the YV attack there was pretty much no major conflict.

[Tsunami]

Well, then we should go ahead to the Mediator Class Star defenders, though finding a model should almost be impossible. Maybe use one of the opts from http://www.btinternet.com/~jmdare/optdown.htm

I vote for sticking to official and semi-official ships and not to invent new ones from scratch.

 

We have another problem: With the Sovereign, it would be THREE ships the Rebels cannot match. You have a serious point on this one.

 

As for the SSDs, there are discussions about two different models of those concerning the famous five-mile-folly, which cannot be correct for Executor, which was 11 miles at LEAST.

 

Maybe drop either Sovereign or Eclipse. They have both tremendous firepower, starfighter complements, troop capacities and gravity well projectors, so they serve no really different purpose. A pity, since both models are really good.

[ElvisMiggell]

I like the site but i don't think we should change what they've done, we could use some of their models if they'll let us, but i don't think we should take a model, modify it and then call it something else, unless they're happy with that.