European Union

[Guest Scathane]

This post probably has more appeal to those from this side of the Atlantic than others, but still... The European Union... What do you think? Yes or no? Good or bad? please motivate your answers...

 

Of course anybody's reply is welcome, not only by those who live on this side of the Atlantic...

Edited May 25, 2005 by Scathane

[Evaders99]

My vote is no. While I am a supporter of free trade, the economic bonuses of the EU are not worth the lose of sovereignty. What we see besides economic changes: trying to form a military defensive group (NATO anyone?) and the power of France as it tries to become the leader of this group.

[Jahled]

Your last point will not come into being.

 

Cowards.

[Cain]

Yap Evaders says no ! as usual ... when he says yes ?!?

 

 

Btw The EU and NATO are made from alot of crap and masonic stuff but until we the "Liberty SWR Rouges" decide to go in to politics is the best thing that we have.

 

 

There are no more ideals in the World ...no more dreams of a better place where is no more taxes and the rule of stupid politicians...ohhh well I'm for the EU for one reason I can drive directly to Mask at his home and make a LAN Game or play with La_Forge in Hungary... Thats all

 

 

Ohhh the French ...well probably if they had invaded Iraq insted of the americans by now all the insurgents were already ded ....sometimes we don't know to realy apreciate the US even with Bush at the helm....I still belive that all the EU and the world is 80% under masonic control...hmmm...maybe the french are a different faction or they are hard heded like De'Gaule /!

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

From what I know of the EU and it's purpose, it sounds like a good idea. In th eend the unification of nations under one banner, without borders or nationalism, will create stability in the world. The idea of patriotism is obserd since we'r eall human beings. The concept of a nation is a little archaic. Ok, got of topic. Good idea. Good for European economies, brings people together and all that.

[Trejiuvanat]

From what I know of the EU and it's purpose, it sounds like a good idea. In th eend the unification of nations under one banner, without borders or nationalism, will create stability in the world. The idea of patriotism is obserd since we'r eall human beings. The concept of a nation is a little archaic. Ok, got of topic. Good idea. Good for European economies, brings people together and all that.

 

I happen to agree with him. This century will most likely focus on the creation of regional blocks. Europe was the first one to take the step forwars and more will follow.

 

A rough sketch of an American Unification (That's Latinamérica for you confused North Americans and Europeans) has been proposed over the years; there have been also plans for the unification of the Caribbean and for the Unification of Central America, the problem is that our precarious economies would not allow us such an integration, at least not within the first part of the this century. Most likely we will be annexed to the most powerful economy in the region (CAFTA anyone?).

 

To sum up. Good for Europe, unrealistic for the rest of the world.

[Ragnar]

One may consider the EU something of a problem, yet a world without one has already become unthinkable. Yet the EU has to reform within the next 10-25 years. both drastcally and desperately, or it will bury itself in its own paperwork.

 

The only thing we can pin on the French is that thet try to advance their own national interests and those of their citizens over those of others. This is not a crime, this is what governments are supposed to do. And as long as there is no other institution that can or will do this (EU foreign policy is non-existent), they have no choice but to continue with this policy. Off course they are arrogant and snobby and whatnot, but I suppose everyone is entitled to a little style when conducting his affairs.

[Guest Scathane]

How interesting... I voted yes, by the way. I feel the EU is a progressive concept and I agree that the notion of a nation is indeed archaic. Moreover, I feel that the world is in need of another power house and if the EU states won't claim that position, someone else will.

 

Of course, Ragnar speaks true when he says there's still a lot to be done. On the other hand, getting 12 countries to forfeit the currencies for a joint euro is quite a feat and so is the notion of making European law the presidio which overrules national legislation.

 

However, having Germany and France breaking the Stability Pact wasn't a healthy thing for the EU. With regard to France trying to take the lead: true but they're not alone... The UK and Germany are trying the same thing. Nevertheless, I feel the EU is almost inevitable and we'll get there in the end.

[the_mask]

Well, some of you have already written, what I would've have, so I'm just adding, what's missing so far

 

We aren't really being ruled by politicians anymore, but by companies and their interests form the basis for what the politicians, their Muppets, if you'll allow me the reference, do in front of a camera.

Since these companies all work for their own good, they'll see to it, that they won't lose that much money with currency exchanges ... woops, already happened ..., or with things like trade-laws and such.

The most disturbing thing for me is, that you can't really do anything about it, worse: you have to live in the system, play by these rules, so you won't drown (did I mention I don't like politics ? ).

So, to summarize my rant : like it or not, it's going to happen, if for the simple reason, that we can't do anything about it.

On the bright side, the loss of the view as belonging to this or that nation has its benefits, since as Thrawn already stated, we are all human beings. Well, except for Zoot

 

EDIT: about that supposed new military unit, I'm against it. We already have NATO and UNO and why should you have so much military at all ? Just adding to the military might over and over again hasn't really worked miracles in more recent and not so recent history.

[Guest Scathane]

What new military unit is that?

[JarodSliverstar]

As an American looking in from across the way, I can see good and bad in the whole EU idea.

 

Personally I think the good part comes from the common currency. I beleive it will help improve trade across national borders and hopefully help move European countries to a move common and stable economic status.

 

Otherwise, I don't see any sense in trying to lessen the otherwise patriotic differences the different countries have. I just don't think it will work. Even in the US, where we have been one countries for over 200 years, at time the regional patriotism can be as fierce as any national pride we might have.

 

On a side note about the other areas of the world following the example of the EU. I heard several years ago about talks to form an Africian Union. What got me to wondering was this.

 

The European Union has a common currency named the Euro. So what would be common currency of the Africian Union? The Afro?

 

No offense meant. Just a random thought from a twisted mind...

[Guest Scathane]

The European Union has a common currency named the Euro. So what would be common currency of the Africian Union? The Afro?

The Afro! I love it!

[the_mask]

There was some talk about creating a military unit, much like the NATO, but as I said, I don't see much use innit.

 

The Afro ? Good one I az got de perfect guy for de image on the coins

[Guest Scathane]

There was some talk about creating a military unit, much like the NATO, but as I said, I don't see much use innit.

Well, I don't know... As much as I hate the idea, I don't believe it is possible to form a concentration of power in this world without having sufficient military power to back you up...

[the_mask]

Besides, just think of the costs and with who's tax money they'd want to pay for it

Nah, this military unit thing better not happen.

[Guest Scathane]

I beg to differ...

[SOCL]

I believe the EU, like the UN, to be a good thing. Granted, the UN has no real power (which really sucks) and for the most part it has to do with the fact that the UN can't really do much when one it's own goes rogue.

 

As far as the EU goes, I see it as a uniting force that will help most of Europe (yes, I don't live there, so perhaps I'm a tad off). I've heard the argument, though, that weak economic nations would not help the EU, but bring it down. As see this as a chance to help those nations at the expense of a few stingy, greedy people grumbling curses. The most interesting argument, though, has always been the idea that joining a union is a loss of sovereignty. Many of my friends present this as an argument for the USA to leave the UN, but on the flip side, why don't states belonging to the USA leave...after all, the USA itself is nothing more than a union. I don't see the EU or any other union as a threat, but a uniting force for the common good. A force that, if utilized correctly, will help hundreds of thousands of people. As a matter of fact, I see it as a basic confederation: many states united under one near-government for the common good of the region. No one person can call all the shots (like the USA basically does in the UN), leaving every member-state autonomous, yet everyone is united.

 

Maybe I'm just an idealist.

[Guest Scathane]

Yes, I don't live there, so perhaps I'm a tad off.

What's new? You were born a tad off...

 

The European Union is more than just a uniting force. For one, it has a common currency and, more importantly, European legislation presides over national legistlation...

Edited October 27, 2004 by Scathane

[SOCL]

Yes, I don't live there, so perhaps I'm a tad off.

What's new? You were born a tad off...

Thanks.

[Imperator2]

I am personally against it. Although Europe has brought the world many fine ideas, it has also bought us Facism ( Germany and Italy ) and Communism ( Russia and all its minions in the now long dead Warsaw Pact).

 

The EU would it seems not be run by elected politicans but faceless unelected bankers, corrupt regional assemblies and yes men ( and women ). We do not reap the benefits of EU trading standards and integration even now. A packet of cigarettes in Spain is approx £0.60, but in Britain a packet will knock you back £4.50. Petrol is another major annoyance. Why are we paying one of the highest rates in the world for our fuel, when in other European countries it is much cheaper....and we have North Sea oil and gas. A level economic playing field.... don't make me laugh, it will NEVER happen.

 

The point is the whole system is rigged and highly corrupt, you only have to look at the EU's accounts, they have not been signed off and authorised by their own accountants for the last THREE YEARS because its so corrupt. And anyone who has blown the whistle on what is going on has been publically vilified, slandered and sacked. Democracy in Action......yeah right

 

Just my two ha'pennies worth

[Guest Scathane]

Fascism and communism are not European inventions and neither is Nazism. The same goes for corruption. Furthermore, price (and other)differences which were in the making for a long time can't be expected to be undone in a short time.

[Imperator2]

I certainly do not want to get into an arguement about politics with anyone, least of all you Scathane!!!

 

But I have to disagree, Marxist/communist ideals have sprung from the ideals originally brought about by the cataclysm of the French Revolution, and these ideals were basically European. Fascism and its horrible offshoot Nazism are reactionary ideals opposed to the Age of Enlightment and the ideas of the French Revolution. Again these are basically European. So Europe in my opinion has brought as many bad things to the world as it has good.

 

I'm not having a go, I just find the idea of a European Superstate abhorrent, costly and wasteful. Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm and Hitler have all tried militarily and all have nearly succeeded. Its just being brought back through 'the back door' now using countries economies as an excuse for increasing its power.

 

I'm a NO to any more integration.

 

Right, I'm going to get off my soapbox and go and blow up some planets.

[SOCL]

But I have to disagree, Marxist/communist ideals have sprung from the ideals originally brought about by the cataclysm of the French Revolution, and these ideals were basically European. Fascism and its horrible offshoot Nazism are reactionary ideals opposed to the Age of Enlightment and the ideas of the French Revolution.

Interesting to note, though, that many experts believe it was the American Revolution that inspired the French into revolution.... So, following your logic, wouldn't the American Revolution be to blame for the ideas of Facism, Marxism, and Communism?...

 

Additionally, for the record, one must note that Marxism and Communism were, like Democracy, meant with the best intentions, looking great on paper but being far too ideal and, thus, clashing with human nature (i.e. greed, power, etc.) and turning into the "bad" connotation of today. So, Imperator2, following further on your logic, we might as well say that humans are to blame for those ideas, for it would have happened regardless, it just happened to have occured in Europe.

[Imperator2]

Its good to cross swords once more with you SOCL after all this time. I'm still smarting from my Latin correction

 

You are of course correct that the American Revolution was the spark to the powder keg in France and many of our fundemental rights of man have thankfully sprung from that. I'm sorry I missed that out, and once again I stand corrected on that important omission. But all political systems start out with the best intentions, and all apart from democracy seem to lose their way or in some cases turn on their own people

 

Glad to see you are still around

[Trejiuvanat]

...all apart from democracy seem to lose their way or in some cases turn on their own people

 

Its all a matter of point of view, the "wonderful" democracy of the US and EU rests upon the awful democracy of the "Third World". There is currently an economic tiranny ruled by the US, just take a plane and visit and Latinamerican country... It's democratic of course...