In which order do you watch your movies

[Valliet]

Of course the original trilogy was better!

 

Have you ever thought that when you went to see TPM for the first time, that maybe your expectations were too high? Being huge fans of the first SW trilogy, we expect a wonderful new trilogy that's even better! Therefore, anything that Lucas produced (no matter how awesome) would not live up to our impossible standards.

 

It's unavoidable. I myself, am a victim of my own theory, and no matter what Episode III is like, it will not compare to my opinion of the originals. The same goes for any other 'new trilogy' Lucas comes up with (except maybe if it's based on EU ).

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I don't think that there was anything that could be done to improve TPM. Because it was actually the first of a series, it had to set up the plot and introduce us to new characters and factions. Even in the original trillogy, while ANH is a good movie, it's not the best of the three. The only think I wish wasn't in TPM was most of what happened on Tatooine. The pod race was nice, but pointless other than establishing how Anakin escapes slavery.

[Trejiuvanat]

A few hints on how to improve TPM:

 

No Jar-Jar.

No Naboo. Use Alderaan instead.

No 9 yo. Anakin. 16 or 17 could do.

No blockade around an insignificant world in the Mid Rim. Instead start the damn Clone Wars in the first movie.

[Guest Scathane]

The only think I wish wasn't in TPM was most of what happened on Tatooine. The pod race was nice, but pointless other than establishing how Anakin escapes slavery.

The Tatooine scenes also estanblished that Anakin was really good at fixing things and that he was a gifted child. The Pod Race established Anakin's exceptional skills as a pilot. I'm not saying this couldn't have been done differently, though...

 

No Jar-Jar.

How right you are. It would have buffed up AotC as well: Jar-Jar as a senator was completely inconceivable...

 

No Naboo. Use Alderaan instead.

I second this as well. Appointing a planet known from the first trilogy would have had my preference as well.

 

No 9 yo. Anakin. 16 or 17 could do.

And again he hits the mark: no Star Wars kid!!!

 

No blockade around an insignificant world in the Mid Rim. Instead start the damn Clone Wars in the first movie.

This is getting boring: I agree. Naboo is way to insignificant to start anything over. The Clone Wars would have been better fleshed out if started in an earlier movie. Instead, the Clone Wars are fleshed in an animated series, which, however I like them, don't do justice to one of the most important events the Galaxy far, far away...

 

To complete it all, I must say I agree with GAT that Tatooine could have been skipped throughout the second trilogy: having so many important events happening there makes the planet much too inportant for Vader to ignore with regard to the fact that someone (Luke) could be hidden there... Moreover, if Vader hated Tatooine that much, then why not destroy it with a Death Star? Last suggestion: not only do away with Jar-Jar, forget the entire Gungan race as well; they serve no purpose that couldn't have been served by another conception.

[SOCL]

To answer the original question to this thread (and I'm probably disrupting the flow), I now watch my movies in numerical order if I watch the prequels at all. Normally, though, I simply watch whichever strikes my mood (though if I watch Empire, then I have to watch Jedi soon after).

 

Last suggestion: not only do away with Jar-Jar, forget the entire Gungan race as well; they serve no purpose that couldn't have been served by another conception.

Agreed. It would be interesting to see a re-release of the DVDs with better changes in them, go and include the exclusion of the Gungans, Naboo, and...well, hell, why not all the prequels(?).

[Guest Scathane]

To answer the original question to this thread (and I'm probably disrupting the flow), I now watch my movies in numerical order if I watch the prequels at all. Normally, though, I simply watch whichever strikes my mood (though if I watch Empire, then I have to watch Jedi soon after).

Ah, yes! Back to topic! I know what you mean; I never have that feeling with ANH.

 

Agreed. It would be interesting to see a re-release of the DVDs with better changes in them, go and include the exclusion of the Gungans, Naboo, and...well, hell, why not all the prequels(?).

So you're suggesting to exclude the inclusion...

[Paul]

I skip the prequels and only watch the original trilogy. I believe I may watch Revenge of the Sith when it comes out if it is decent, we will have to see.-Grand Moff Conway

[SOCL]

Agreed. It would be interesting to see a re-release of the DVDs with better changes in them, go and include the exclusion of the Gungans, Naboo, and...well, hell, why not all the prequels(?).

So you're suggesting to exclude the inclusion...

Um... yeah, if that's what I wrote, I suppose that's what I meant.

 

::rereading own text::

 

Yeah! That is what I meant!

[Guest Scathane]

Why is everybody so unbelievably glum about Revenge of the Sith?!

[Paul]

Well Lucas seems to be changing everything that has been written before. An example is having those critters (Geonisians I believe) give Tyranus/Dooku the plans to the Death Star when anyone older than a kid knows that it was developed at Maw by Bevel Lemelisk, Qwi Xux and crew. Tarkin had it built for Palpatine. Lucas even changed Boba Fetts whole story in one fell swoop. I no longer trust the man to keep things as they were developed over the years.-Grand Moff Conway

[Guest Scathane]

Well Lucas seems to be changing everything that has been written before.

Somehow, I doubt that...

 

An example is having those critters (Geonisians I believe) give Tyranus/Dooku the plans to the Death Star when anyone older than a kid knows that it was developed at Maw by Bevel Lemelisk, Qwi Xux and crew. Tarkin had it built for Palpatine.

So what exactly changed... According to starswars.com the Death Star was the brainchild of Tarkin, and it was designed by Bevel Lemelisk, Qwi Xux and Tol Sivron at the Maw Installation. I don't see how the fact that the Dooku and the Confederacy of Independent Planets had access to the plans changes any of this... Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Techno Union's resources were put into play to construct it...

 

Lucas even changed Boba Fetts whole story in one fell swoop.

How so?

 

I no longer trust the man to keep things as they were developed over the years.-Grand Moff Conway

You don't feel you're jumping to conclusions?

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well Lucas seems to be changing everything that has been written before.

Somehow, I doubt that...

 

Well, he has changed much of what we have grown accustomed to in the EU. In the EU, and for the past 12 years, we've always believed that the Jedi Temple was destroyed, and that Palpatine chose that location for the Imperial Palace (it's in the novels, though I can't remember which one. If some one with a better memory can lend a hand, it would be greatly appreciated.), but now Lucas has undone this. The Imperial Palace will supposedly be built on the site where Sidiuos meets Dooku at the end of Ep. II, and if you watch the victory celebration at the end of RotJ, you can clearly see the Jedi Temple in the background. If the Jedi Temple were still around, why would Luke found the New Jedi Order on Yavin? The effects of the prequles are far reaching indeed.

 

So what exactly changed... According to starswars.com the Death Star was the brainchild of Tarkin, and it was designed by Bevel Lemelisk, Qwi Xux and Tol Sivron at the Maw Installation. I don't see how the fact that the Dooku and the Confederacy of Independent Planets had access to the plans changes any of this... Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Techno Union's resources were put into play to construct it...

 

The story goes that Lemelesk designed the Death Star for the Emperor, after he had taken power, and that he was killed ,multiple times, by the Emperor for failings in those designs (well, killed after it was destroyed). That the plans are given to Dooku by the Geonosians counters this because their leader says taht they do not want the republic discovering what they are planning. If that was the case, why would they take the plans out of the Maw Instillation? It would be counterproductive, at least until it was time to begin construction, at which point we all know that the plans were stored at an Imperial facility from which Kyle Katarn made good his escape with the Death Star planns.

 

The Techno Union's resources woudln't be needed to construct the Death Star, since the Empire controled everything. I wonder if they even exist after the New Order takes control?

 

How so?

 

The accepted story of Boba Fett's origin prior to Episode II is roughly as follows: joines the Empire as a Stormtrooper. For some reason kills his commanding officer and becomes a wanted man. While running from the Empire he some how acquires Mandalorian Armor (kills a Mandalor or something). Becomes a bounty hunter. After he's become renouned enough, goes to Kuat Drive Yards and has them construct a custom ship, the Slave I. Does jobs for a spider-thingy who lives in a space web, etc. I'm doing this in general terms because other than what was in the Bounty Hunter Wars books, I don't know the specifics (like Fett's real name, which is eluding me. Kaster Jasteel or some such.). Even though the books in which these events are outlined were terrible, it was still taken as fact. Lucas has undone almost ten years of history by creating his little clone.

 

You don't feel you're jumping to conclusions?

 

I think Paul was a little harsh there, but I agree with him to a degree. Lucas has undone much of the old lore and history of the Star Wars Universe, but we must look at it from a different perspective:

 

First off, it is his property, and if the EU continued the story in a way he didn't like, it's his perogative to change it.

Also, it is possible that some of the EU stuf can fit in with some imagination. The Death Star plans could have been transferred to Geonosis for review by Dooku. Maybe Palpy wasn't as sure about converting Anakin as we think, so his plans included only Dooku, who would naturally be charged with overseeing a project of such importance. Plus, think of how long it would take to build a Death Star.

As for Fett, maybe he changes his name, keeps his father's geer, and joines the Empire to get revenge against the Jedi who killed his father. And the ship Jango had may not be the Slave I. You don't name the first ship of a name I. You'd name it the Slave. So, maybe Boba did go to Kuat and order his own ship, possibly after the Slave was destroyed. This does go against every thing that tells us it was the Slave I we saw in Episode II, but it's something to think about.

[Paul]

I accept that Star Wars was Georges property- BUT- he or his representatives authorized all of the books. If he did not like something why didn't he squash it at the time instead of allowing us to get used to something he intended to change anyway.

 

Also I don't hate Lucas I just dislike some of these alterations of the beginning of the Empire and of films I grew up revering. Why change a great thing too much. Most of which doesn't really matter I guess as I can create my own reality with Rebellion where the Empire never is defeated by the rabble at Endor.

 

My raving is over for now.-Paul-Grand Moff Conway

PS-Thrawn thanks for some backup

[Guest Scathane]

Well, he has changed much of what we have grown accustomed to in the EU. In the EU, and for the past 12 years, we've always believed that the Jedi Temple was destroyed, and that Palpatine chose that location for the Imperial Palace (it's in the novels, though I can't remember which one. If some one with a better memory can lend a hand, it would be greatly appreciated.), but now Lucas has undone this. The Imperial Palace will supposedly be built on the site where Sidiuos meets Dooku at the end of Ep. II, and if you watch the victory celebration at the end of RotJ, you can clearly see the Jedi Temple in the background. If the Jedi Temple were still around, why would Luke found the New Jedi Order on Yavin? The effects of the prequles are far reaching indeed.

If it's supposedly built on the spot where Sidious meets Dooku at the end of Ep. II, then I suppose that's just a rumor... I don't know about the the destruction of the Jedi Temple, I'd have to watch the end of RotJ again first. Nevertheless, if you ask why Luke would found the New Jedi Order on Yavin, then I guess that the novels didn't provide you with a conclusive reason...

 

The story goes that Lemelesk designed the Death Star for the Emperor, after he had taken power, and that he was killed ,multiple times, by the Emperor for failings in those designs (well, killed after it was destroyed). That the plans are given to Dooku by the Geonosians counters this because their leader says taht they do not want the republic discovering what they are planning. If that was the case, why would they take the plans out of the Maw Instillation? It would be counterproductive, at least until it was time to begin construction, at which point we all know that the plans were stored at an Imperial facility from which Kyle Katarn made good his escape with the Death Star planns.

1. Lemelisk was killed by the Emperor for failings in the DS designs.
2. The DS plans are given to Dooku by the Geonosians.

These two statements counter each other how?

 

We don't know why Dooku and the Geonosians had those plans. Why would they take the plans out of the Maw? Heck, I don't know! Maybe those plans Dooku received were the very first sketches that got sent to the Maw. The point is that deducting all you have above from just one tiny scene that has yet to be explained by official sources (the sw.com databank doesn't mention it yet) is nothing but one thing: conjecture. I say wait for Ep. III and see what GL does with this stuff.

 

The Techno Union's resources woudln't be needed to construct the Death Star, since the Empire controled everything. I wonder if they even exist after the New Order takes control?

Fair enough...

 

The accepted story of Boba Fett's origin prior to Episode II is roughly as follows: joines the Empire as a Stormtrooper. For some reason kills his commanding officer and becomes a wanted man. While running from the Empire he some how acquires Mandalorian Armor (kills a Mandalor or something). Becomes a bounty hunter. After he's become renouned enough, goes to Kuat Drive Yards and has them construct a custom ship, the Slave I. Does jobs for a spider-thingy who lives in a space web, etc. I'm doing this in general terms because other than what was in the Bounty Hunter Wars books, I don't know the specifics (like Fett's real name, which is eluding me. Kaster Jasteel or some such.). Even though the books in which these events are outlined were terrible, it was still taken as fact. Lucas has undone almost ten years of history by creating his little clone.

The books, so you state, were bad... Maybe GL wanted to put that right. We all know, whether we have read the novels or not, that Fett's background was shrouded in mystery. Maybe GL should have left it that way but I think he's done a great job putting the ends together; for instance by saying that it was Jango, not Boba, who was picked up by Journeyman Protector Jaster Mereel and who joined the Mandalorians commandos (a romor previously attached to Boba).

 

I think Paul was a little harsh there, but I agree with him to a degree. Lucas has undone much of the old lore and history of the Star Wars Universe, but we must look at it from a different perspective:

 

First off, it is his property, and if the EU continued the story in a way he didn't like, it's his perogative to change it.

Not only that, it's his conception, his brainchild...

 

Also, it is possible that some of the EU stuf can fit in with some imagination. The Death Star plans could have been transferred to Geonosis for review by Dooku. Maybe Palpy wasn't as sure about converting Anakin as we think, so his plans included only Dooku, who would naturally be charged with overseeing a project of such importance. Plus, think of how long it would take to build a Death Star.

Exactly my point!

 

 

As for Fett, maybe he changes his name, keeps his father's geer, and joines the Empire to get revenge against the Jedi who killed his father. And the ship Jango had may not be the Slave I. You don't name the first ship of a name I. You'd name it the Slave. So, maybe Boba did go to Kuat and order his own ship, possibly after the Slave was destroyed. This does go against every thing that tells us it was the Slave I we saw in Episode II, but it's something to think about.

1. Boba Fett's armor is not the same as Jango's

2. The starship flown by Jango is, in fact, Slave I.

[SOCL]

I suppose the biggest problem was the Clone Wars. For years it was said to have been the Mandalors who raised an enormous army of clones and started fighting the Jedi/Old Republic. In turn, the Jedi started cloning themselves (i.e. we get the Dark Jedi Joruus C'baoth from the Thrawn novels) to combat this enormous threat. Eventually the Old Republic would start cloning its own army to fight the Mandalors. They would eventually defeat them, but the "mad" Jedi clones would become a HUGE problem, causing the Republic to take an offensive strategy against them, which would eventually be twisted by Senator Palpatine to ALL Jedi being threats. With many systems backing the idea of ALL Jedi being bad (because of not only the "mad" Dark Jedi clones, but also past corruption and abuse of power and whatnot within the Jedi ranks), Palpatine leads a movement to keep a standing army that would destroy them all, led by none other than Darth Vader. With all this "emergency power", Palpatine would eventually declare himself emperor.

 

This is all a composite of A LOT of information from the past from various sources. I suppose the biggest problem is the fact that we lack Mandalors (replaced with robots) and we lack mad Jedi clones (such as Joruus C'baoth). Additionally, we find that Lucas stopped using the term "Dark Jedi" (the original term) and started using the term "Sith", which isn't exactly a huge change (they could be interchangable), but it gives the Jedi this feel of being perfect beings, distincting the good ones (Jedi) from the bad ones (Sith). Dark Jedi, on the other hand, gives the feeling that Jedi are not, in fact, flawless, but are...well...for a lack of better words, "human" (in the sense of not flawless and not species).

 

As far as Boba Fett goes, what I had understood was that he was a Journeyman named Jaster Mereel from Concord Dawn who had killed someone (it's possible the stormtrooper storyline plays in here) and was wanted. With that, he disappeared and found himself doing odd jobs--bounty hunting was one of them. He would eventually find some Mandalorian armor left over from what was, at the time, assumed to be the Clone Wars and used that for his image (the Mandalorians were a feared race, and if he dressed as one, people would fear him). He then changed his name to Boba Fett (not quite sure where he got it) and would work as a bounty hunter until the "Pit of Carkoon Incident". During his absense, a man named Jodo Kast (who was once conned by Thrawn) would find some Mandalorian armor and claimed to be Boba Fett. After escaping death, Boba Fett would find Kast and kill him, taking the man's armor and one again becoming Boba Fett (most people would not realize the change and would actually, for the most part, not realize Boba Fett had actually ever been missing). This is a composite from Boba Fett stories written pre-prequels.

 

With all that in mind, when AOTC came out, quite a few people were pissed off. Not only had the Clone Wars been changed, but so had the coolest character of the Star Wars Universe. People liked the mysticism surrounding that time period, especially the individual storylines of characters, it allowed individual imaginations to run freely...but now....

 

Concerning the Slave I and subsequent Fett-owned ships; we know that the Slave I was a type of patrol ship (The Guide to Vehicle and Vessels) that Fett went ahead and modified. The prequels do not make this impossible, it could very well be that Jango Fett did this. Boba Fett, according to the stories, had other ships dubbed "Slave". We know of at least four (we know this because the Slave IV was mentioned in Tales of the Bounty Hunters in Boba Fett's story). We also know of what the Slave II looked like from The Guide to Vehicle and Vessels, what we know nothing about is the Slave III.

 

Moving on, we can actually combine Expanded Universe material and prequel material if we use a little imagination. First, Jango Fett could very well be Journeyman Jaster Mereel from Concord Dawn and all subsequent matters concerning that person (expect killing stormtrooper, but the stories don't say Jaster Mereel was wanted for killing a stormtrooper, only that the person who would eventually become Boba Fett was). Additionally, it's quite possible that the Slave I's story still follows that I posted above. After Jango's death, Boba took up his father's image as a bounty hunter (armor and all). From here, with such an enormous galaxy, we can assume that most people didn't know the difference, that in fact, they may have assumed they had heard Fett's name incorrectly as Jango and corrected themselves with Boba ("Boba Fett, ehh? I could have sworn your name was Jango or something... Oh well."). That doesn't have to be included, of course, but it would explain the exclusion of Jango Fett in the EU Boba Fett stories we all know and love. Everything else we know about Boba Fett after Jango's death still stands. Additionally, with such a popular character, all the stories we've heard about Boba Fett could very possibly be just people like Jodo Kast who claim they are Boba Fett.

As far as killing a stormtrooper commander goes...well...with a billion and a half brothers who look exactly like you, don't you think there could have been a mix up? Don't you think that someone mistaked a guy who looked like Boba Fett who killed his commander? There's a pretty large possibility. Additionally, who's to say that Jango's death didn't affect Boba and, with some depression added in, he didn't decide to join his brothers, but because of his unique independent mind he didn't disagree with a clone commander and kill him (we're talking about the transition period between AOTC and between ROTS/ANH where some stormtroopers were clones and others weren't). We could also say he was a stormtrooper at one time and killed his commander...period.

 

 

 

With some creativity, we can say that the prequels and EU still do agree (expect for the over-all idea of the Clone Wars, but not more ranting in this thread).

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well, AotC wasn't too bad, I'd just like to get over Episode I. Maybe he'll realize how terrible it was and just re-make it.

[Guest Scathane]

First, Jango Fett could very well be Journeyman Jaster Mereel from Concord Dawn...

No you couldn't:

 

Jango Fett was orphaned at an early age, the son of simple Concord Dawn farmers killed by brutal marauders. At the age of ten, he was picked up by Journeyman Protector Jaster Mereel, who introduced Fett to a harsh world of mercenary life. He was raised among great warriors, learning to survive in the rugged frontiers. Though the Mandalorian supercommandos were wiped out by the Jedi Knights, Jango was one of the few left to still wear the armor.

 

Source: http://starwars.com/databank/character/jangofett