this may be a goofy idea, but

[Jin_Roh]

It's always bothered me that in SWR, hyperdrive-equipped starfighters can't act independently of capital ships. I was just on the Imperial Archives site, seeing all the great old SWMA models and it occurred to me - what if you scaled down some of the fighter models, and then used them to replace capital ships? You'd have to use Rebed to cut their shielding and hull values down to nothing, and give them only forward firing lasers. But at least then you could send fighters on raids without having to base them on carriers or other cap ships.

 

On the other hand you wouldn't be able to base these fighters on bigger ships. And it's not like we have a bunch of capital ship slots to spare to begin with.

 

Still, it would add another element to the game...

 

Like I said, it may be a goofy idea

[TK421]

Actually, this could work (I don't know the minimum size of a model) and use some SWXA model of a X-wing... And perhaps make it more expensive... And speed it up... Hmmmmz I don't know.. we could try!

[TK421]

This is one of the ideas like Golan Platforms and battlestations...

 

You could also make a Zero G trooper...

Load it as a starfighter, so you can do them in a starship... speed them down...

[Loserboy]

I see no reason why this shouldn't work, you can pretty much scale down models to whatever size you want. (I've had a tactical box spanning stardestroyer I see no reason why It shouldn't work the other way.)

 

But there are a couple of mayor problems with this idea.

 

One. Your ships are gonna be damned hard to find, So your only gonna be able to move them in task force mode, not one at a time.

 

Two. They are gonna move like capships which means move in a straight line, and try to fire broadside.

 

Three. I haven't a clue how hit chances are caluclated in Rebellion, cap ships always hit other capships, so you need to make one hell of a strong fighter.

 

So you can make autonomous fighters they're just won't actvery fighter like.

 

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I used to be schizophrenic but we're okay now.

[ElvisMiggell]

Weeeeell, what a good idea! Not at all goofy.

 

However, very hard to do well. I think what we have here is something to look at in the light of Greg's development. I haven't seen Greg here in ages, so i don't know if he's around, but it's well worth talking to him about it. I know it's something i'd like to see.

 

Similarly, maybe we should be able to send fighter squadrons on recon missions. Or even capital ships.

[TK421]

Why ask Greg? Ask Mask, he can make such a thing in 'a couple of minutes' and then you cn do the rest!

[the_mask]

Hehehe, sure I could do these models, but I don't think it would be a good idea. The hit-zones should be no problem, since the computer always seems to target the center area of the models, regardless of the size.

Besides that and that you would diminish many of your cap-ship slots, what would you do with all of your regular fighters and those that are built by the AI ? It would look odd to have let's say, a regular sized Tie Bomber and one with 1.5 times its size.

[Jin_Roh]

Loserboy & Mask both make great points.

 

I thought that ships turned broadside in combat only if their side batteries were stronger than their forward firing arc. It's been so long since I've been in tactical mode I can't say for sure.

 

Maybe you could rev up the "cap fighters" sublight speed and maneuverability values in Rebed to make them seem more like fighters. Then have them execute waypoint moves just so they don't park in space and try to duke it out with the heavies. Or have them do surround moves if engaging enemy fighters. Hopefully they'd keep following them around until the opposing fighters are all gone.

 

As far as making strong fighters, I'm not sure where you would put the values. Originally I thought you'd want to make them really vulnerable. Maybe the opposite is the way to go in order to simulate "misses" by the enemy cap ships. You could make their hull and/or shield values high, just so the first hit doesn't blow them away. And make their damage control settings such that if they did survive the fight, they could be repaired very very quickly. (on the theory that it's a lot quicker to repair a fighter than a cap ship.) In this way, maybe you could simulate misses and minor battle damage by the enemy cap ships' laser batteries.

 

LB is almost certainly correct about having to handle fighters by task group, which wouldn't be very realistic. In a melee I'm sure it would be almost impossible for fighters to maintain squadron formation. I don't know if there's a way around that.

 

Personally I never play as the Alliance - I just love those ISDs and SSDs too much, beside which Vader is 'da Man! And there are some cap ships I never build, like strike cruisers and star galleons. I'd be happy to give those up to be able to build a fleet (squadron!) of TIE defenders that I could send on their own raiding missions. For any fighter I turn into a "capital fighter" , Ill remove it from the fighter list and replace it with something else.

 

Sorry for the long post but this website, plus all the discoveries in modifying dlls and exchanging models just have me incredibly psyched about playing Rebellion again!

[TK421]

No no long posts are cool!

[ricepr2001]

Tis would be a good idea for TC's i saw a Rouge Squadron TC a couple times and it would work good for somthing like that

[the_mask]

What about making a small swarm/cloud of fighters for the models. This way you wouldn't have to create 12 "ships" to have a squadron.

Also I'd just create this 'off-the-record', cause there hasn't been talking about including this in the TC and I do have models for almost any original ship + some to fill that gaps.

The swarms could have formations, like in Homeworld, although these formations couldn't be changed.

[ricepr2001]

i never said there was talk about it i just said it would fit good

[Guest Pucho777]

I think the fighters should remain the way they are in the game. Realistically, I don't think either side would send their fighters out on independent-of-fleet missions unless it was a special group like 'Rogue Squadron'. Even then, I would deem it mandatory that a squadron with pilots of that skill level are protected by something more than themselves when implementing a mission, unless the mission parameters were somewhat safe. But then, the mission would probably be given to a lesser group.

 

I do think, however, that it would be a great thing if someone could figure out how to edit the images of the fighters in 'Tactical' so that we could replace the little X-wings with little E-wings, and so on and so forth.

 

My views.

[Loserboy]

Not to mention the fact that my poor little guys are in enough trouble as it it.

I wouldn't want them to be stuck in a xwing/tie cockpit for the 300 days it takes to cross the universe.

 

Besides the chances of it unbalacing the game are too high.

As you could create a fleet of cheap figthers (300 plus) and dump them on your enemy early on. It would turn our beloved reb into a rush game.

 

 

 

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The job of the brain, the most complicated and subtle piece of engineering in the entire universe, is to generate the human mind. Which is a bit like building a space station to grow carrots in, really."

- Sergei

[UntimelyDemise]

Not to mention the fact that my poor little guys are in enough trouble as it it.

I wouldn't want them to be stuck in a xwing/tie cockpit for the 300 days it takes to cross the universe.

 

Besides the chances of it unbalacing the game are too high.

As you could create a fleet of cheap figthers (300 plus) and dump them on your enemy early on. It would turn our beloved reb into a rush game.

 

 

 

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The job of the brain, the most complicated and subtle piece of engineering in the entire universe, is to generate the human mind. Which is a bit like building a space station to grow carrots in, really."

- Sergei

 

In order to keep it from being a problem, use RebEd to make them EXTREMELY expensive to build and maintain so you'd only want one squadron anyway. Then crank up their hyperdrives to 5 so they can travel great distances quickly. Oh, yes, and don't allow the AI to build them, because the AI would spend all it's time building them and never build SDs.

 

BTW, once again you've found a great quote! I am truly impressed!

[Loserboy]

Thx

 

Indeed that could work. You could create a rogue squadron-ish kinda fighter group.Just dump a buch of them together save it as a single model and replace a med-transport.

(can you move the med transport up the research tree?, like dump it somewhere after the Neb)

 

This Squadron would be

A. be really really though to beat

B. would cost somewhere between a dauntless and a bullwark

It could be used to kinda strenghten the alliance fleet. Which needs some help in the later part of the gane.

 

They should also have a pretyy hefty upkeep cost too, rogue squadron is apperently famous, like intergalactic rockstars or something.

This could explain the high cost. they'd proably demand booze, blue space bimbo's, ect.

 

But my knowledge of rogue squadron is limited.

I've never read those books, after reading a horrid story by Kevin J Anderson (that man should be hit over the head with a burning porcupine) that nearly destroyed starwars for me I steered clear of anything not written by Zahn.

Besides I don't like what I've heard about most of those other strories either. It's always mega cannon this, Indestructible that or some kind of darkside empowered underwear that makes the wearer invisible and be able to destroy the uniiverse with a thought.

 

 

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--Why do you always call me little grashopper, sensei?

- Because you ugly, like insect!

[the_mask]

What novel was that grasshoper, ahh Loserboy

[ElvisMiggell]

Indeed. Sounds like a corker to me, where can i buy it?!?

And what was wrong with the KEvin J Anderson one?

[Guest Pucho777]

Thx

 

Indeed that could work. You could create a rogue squadron-ish kinda fighter group.Just dump a buch of them together save it as a single model and replace a med-transport.

(can you move the med transport up the research tree?, like dump it somewhere after the Neb)

 

This Squadron would be

A. be really really though to beat

B. would cost somewhere between a dauntless and a bullwark

It could be used to kinda strenghten the alliance fleet. Which needs some help in the later part of the gane.

 

They should also have a pretyy hefty upkeep cost too, rogue squadron is apperently famous, like intergalactic rockstars or something.

This could explain the high cost. they'd proably demand booze, blue space bimbo's, ect.

 

But my knowledge of rogue squadron is limited.

I've never read those books, after reading a horrid story by Kevin J Anderson (that man should be hit over the head with a burning porcupine) that nearly destroyed starwars for me I steered clear of anything not written by Zahn.

Besides I don't like what I've heard about most of those other strories either. It's always mega cannon this, Indestructible that or some kind of darkside empowered underwear that makes the wearer invisible and be able to destroy the uniiverse with a thought.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

--Why do you always call me little grashopper, sensei?

- Because you ugly, like insect!

 

I felt that most of the novels, so far (I'm on 'Vision of the Future') told a great after-the-movies (and between) story. There were a few, all written by female authors, that I thought were quite ridiculous stories, but read them anyway just to stay with the story. Out of all of the authors, I felt that, in order of favorite, Michael P. Kube-McDowell, Michael Stackpole, Timothy Zahn, Kevin Anderson, Aaron Allston, & A.C. Crispin gave me the best reading experiences. I feel that, if you're a Star Wars fan, you should read all of the novels, regardless of the story, just to see 'what happens next'.

 

My views.

[Loserboy]

It was "Jedi Search, by Kevin J Anderson"

 

First off, I must say that I rarely read science fiction

I generally read along the lines of Victor Hugo or E. M Dostojewsky.

 

But I had read some S.F before that agreed with me. This was all original S.F things like Niven, Asimov and Herbert. Real writers who create their own universe and place their characters within them. usually I stay the hell away from an already defined universe like SW.

 

But then a good friend ( a friend who usually knows what he's talking about) recommended Zahn, and I was pleasently surprised. Here was a writter who saw the characters from the movies and expanded from there, he matured the characters, but in a way that seemed natural. He created new charcters that had depth and logical goals.

 

After some time I decided that I'd like to read another starwars book. A Kevin J Anderson book. All the original charcters where changed, they became shallow, whinning individuals, it added (to my knowledge) chachters. Like the 1 dimensional megalomanical Daala. And non sensible plot devices like the sun crusher.

These where really stupid villans and cheap ways to further the plot, the ones you get in bad movies. During the entire book I generally knew what was going to happen in the next twenty five pages.

 

Books are a pretty personal thing for me, I don't read a story I live it. I'm there when the action is, I'm there when I see chacters display thier emotions, become friends or bitter enemies.

It becomes a fantasy world for small amount of time.

Keven J anderson's novel was just plain wrong in my eyes.

 

I'm convinced he couldn't create a plausible charcter if he needed it to save his grand mother.

 

I checked a few other books just to make sure, maybe this one was just plain bad, but most lacked any detail. Sure there where some good parts but on the whole it was like sitting trough a bad, bad movie just because you payed money.

 

Not to mention the fact that, Kevin J Anderson seems to think that the sum total of human knowledge is located in his head.

I remeber an interview I read a while back. It was about some glaring faults in his newly adopted universe Dune. (I'm noticing a trend here)

 

I think it's a prequel (another trend), anyway there were some things that seemd way out of touch with the universe and the Dune Bible.

Remeber the dune bible is a book that is created with the help of Herbert himself and he said it was correct, it discribed the way he saw the dune universe.

Kevin J Anderson simply said in one sentence.

It is wrong, I'm right.

On which I responded, He created the bloody universe, don't you think he might know whats right and what's not!!!!. (This BTW raised some eyebrows on my fellow students, because I was in a computer lab at the moment and talking to my computer screen.)

 

Since then I stayed the f*ck away from books like that and I've been a lot happier since. BTW I still think Zahn is one of the better latter-day S.F writers and I can recommend both, The conquers trilogy And The Icarus hunt both are good works of fiction.

 

Sorry about insanely long post, I hope I dind't bore you to death with things that only seem important to me.

 

BTW the large amount of spelling/gramatical errors are a result of having just returned from an exellent party (GF just got her drivers license) and not having slept in the last 25 hours or so.

 

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Don't knock on Death's door ... ring the bell and run. He hates that!

[Gank]

Whole heartedty agree with ya mate, Zahn is the only Star wars author I would read twice. As you said he expands on the characters from the movies in a way that is plausible, other authors simply use them as crutchs for their own lame plots. Stackpoles xwing series was readable but as far as the story went it was severly lacking.

 

I read one of KJAs dune preqeuls books and its safe to say I wont be reading the other 2, the way he wrote them you'd think he had never read the original Dune series. Probably didnt either. Either way the mans severly lacking in imagination and has to ride somebody elses creations to success.

 

btw if your looking for anything to read get anything by Iain M Banks, easily the best modern Sci-Fi writer imo

[the_mask]

I agree that Victor Hugo and Frank Herbert were exceptional writers. I haven't read anything from Asimov yet, but I'd definately include his principles in any droid (with multiple fail-safe/backup circuits ). I also dive in completely into the reading experience and nowadays it works best with Herbert's books. But aside from a few books I generally enjoy the other StarWars books as well, although almost every other lacks the wheels within wheels concept from Zahn's books.

If you ever decide to give the other books a try again, I don't recommend that you try the Bounty Hunter wars and the Crystal Star, I found those exceptionally boring in whole.

[ElvisMiggell]

I don't mind the long post, i asked for your opinion. While you have valid points, i have to say i don't entirely agree with you. For some reason i've never been much of a sci fi book reader, apart from Star Wars. Which i love. For me every book is brilliant, because it furthers what i find to be an amazing saga. Crystal Star was not amazing, but i found it perfectly competent. For me, onl;y the first Dune book was any good, i never really manged to enjoy the others.

 

I think in some ways we're missing out, because there are so many good book out there, with so many talented writers over the years, we're beginning to fail to appreciate the other books. Bounty Hunter Wars is very hard work, possibly the most intellectual book i've read, it explores motivations very well. If you read all the books that Daala features in, she becomes a very imersive character.

 

However, i'm a die hard SW fan, who owns every book and has read each of them at least twenty times. And these are only my opinions, if i were less corrupted by SW i'd probably agree with you.

 

[Guest Pucho777]

I don't mind the long post, i asked for your opinion. While you have valid points, i have to say i don't entirely agree with you. For some reason i've never been much of a sci fi book reader, apart from Star Wars. Which i love. For me every book is brilliant, because it furthers what i find to be an amazing saga. Crystal Star was not amazing, but i found it perfectly competent. For me, onl;y the first Dune book was any good, i never really manged to enjoy the others.

 

I think in some ways we're missing out, because there are so many good book out there, with so many talented writers over the years, we're beginning to fail to appreciate the other books. Bounty Hunter Wars is very hard work, possibly the most intellectual book i've read, it explores motivations very well. If you read all the books that Daala features in, she becomes a very imersive character.

 

However, i'm a die hard SW fan, who owns every book and has read each of them at least twenty times. And these are only my opinions, if i were less corrupted by SW i'd probably agree with you.

 

 

Now THIS is a true Star Wars Fan! Well said! You guys...if you're not planning on reading all of the novels, then try Michael P. Kube-McDowell's and Michael Stackpole's stuff. I had a immersing time with their's!

[TK421]

I love the Asimov books, especially the Foundation serie. But all other books are great too. Of the Bicentennial Men, a movie was made with that weird geezer... Robin Williams. Nice book, have to see the movie some time.

I like (and have) the JKA books. I think they aren't that bad as some of you may think... IMHO!

Currently I'm reading the prequel stories (Han Solo trilogy, books of Crispin, Luceno...), they're great!

Only thing is I'm wondering how these guys are going to get that Death Star model of AOTC until ANH... Bevel Lemelisk developed it together with Qwu Xux, and she isn't that old yet! You know, this is totally wasted! Who can explain or think together with me how this can happen