Battle of Endor Force Listing

[Texas_Fett]

Found this on the boards at TFN. It's the 'final' list on the last page, and while comprehensive and impressively researched, it still requires a bit of polish. Oh, and yes, I know a lot of the following are absent from RotJ, but this is more of a compilation of information from a variety of Canon and EU sources.

 

Anyway...thought I'd share. Everything below this is shamelessly "copied & pasted" from TFN. Well, except for a smiley, the bold and italics for ease of reading.

 

Rebel Forces:

 

Capital Ships:

Home One (Mon Calamari Star Cruiser):

-Mon Mothma (presumably)

-Admiral Ackbar

-Borsk Fey'lya?

-Captain Verrack

-First Officer Thaneespi

-Major Haash'n

-Lt.? Sesfan (sensor operator)

-Orrimaarko? (Dresselian commando, present for briefing, but not with ground forces for the operation)

-Plouur?, starfighter ground grew

Liberty (Winged Mon Calamari Star Cruiser, type 2 [XWA designation], Destroyed by Death Star)

Maria (Winged Mon Calamari Star Cruiser, type 2 [XWA designation])

Columbia? (Wingless Mon Calamari Star Cruiser)

Defiance (Wingless Mon Calamari Star Cruiser, destroyed by Death Star)

Independence (Wingless Mon Calamari Star Cruiser)

-General Madine?

Ludtze (Wingless Mon Calamari Star Cruiser)

Reef Home (Wingless Mon Calamari Cruiser)

Silent Water? (Wingless? Mon Calamari Cruiser)

Sullute (Wingless Mon Calamari Cruiser)

Urjani (Bulk Cruiser)

Rendili StarDrive Dreadnought?

DukeDoom (Quaser Class Cruiser-Carrier?)

Flurry (Quaser Class Cruiser-Carrier):

-Captain Manchisco

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 1

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 2

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 3

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 4

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 5

Virgillian cruiser-carrier 6

Antares Six (Nebulon B Frigate)

-Captain Syub Snub

Mercy (Nebulon B medical Frigate)

Redemption (Nebulon B medical Frigate):

-Dr. Ton Phanan

Valiance (Nebulon B Frigate)

Yavaris (Nebulon B Frigate)

Unknown Rebel frigate 1 (Nebulon B Frigate)

Unknown Rebel frigate 2 (Nebulon B Frigate)

Masanya (Modified CR90 Corvette)

Eridain (CR90 Corvette)

NovaFlare? (CR90 Corvette)

Pushti (CR90 Corvette)

Old Republic (CR90 Corvette, destroyed after the battle by the Daggerblade)

Saki (CR90 Corvette)

Ullet (CR90 Corvette)

"Y-head" Corvette

Chandi (Corellian Gunship)

-Commander? Afyon? (First officer?)

-Sarin Virgilio? (Third officer?)

Ensaiav (Corellian Gunship)

Ghorman's Honour (Corellian Gunship)

Mastala (Corellian Gunship)

Telsor (Corellian Gunship)

Walerev (Corellian Gunship)

Limnate (Medium Transport)

Luminous (Medium Transport)

Tuima (Medium Transport)

Steadfast (Fleet Hauler)

22 Virgillian Alignment vessels including the Dukedoom, Flurry, six or seven more cruiser-carriers, and at least five corellian gunships, the other six or seven are class unknown.

 

Fighter Squadrons:

 

Red Wing: (X-Wings)

Red Leader: Wedge Antilles

Red 2: Unknown (KIA)

Red 4: Derek "Hobbie" Klivian

Red 6: Wes Janson

Red 7: Keir Santage (KIA)

Unknown callsign: Gayla Riemann

Unknown callsign: Lak Sivrak (KIA)

Unknown callsign: Randi (KIA)

 

 

Gold Squadron: (Y-Wings)

Gold Leader: Millienium Falcon; Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, Ace Azzameen, Colonel Cracken?

 

Blue Wing: (B-Wings)

Blue 5: Ten Nunb

Unknown callsign: Edor Crespin? (A-wing)

 

Green Wing: (A-Wings)

Green Leader: Arvel Crynyd (KIA)

Green 3: Tycho Celchu (aka Rogue 2)

 

Gray Wing: (Y-Wings/B-Wings?)

Gray Leader: Colonel Salm w/Kin Kian (KIA?) (of Rogue Squadron)

Gray 2: Lt. Telsij w/ Karie Neth (of Rogue Squadron) (KIA?)

 

Tala Squadron: (Z-95s, ground support)

Tala 1: Colonel Cracken

Tala 2: Lt. Blount

 

Total number of Rebel fighters (X-wings, A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, and Z-95s) after calculating the fighter capacity of the named vessels gives us a conservative minimum of 495 Rebel fighters, with a possible maximum of 747. I believe the total number to be around 600.

 

Ground Forces:

 

General Brenn Trantor (mission coordinator, aboard the Tyderium?)

General Han Solo & Chewbacca

Commander Luke Skywalker with C-3PO & R2-D2

Princess Leia Organa

Major Bren Derlin (commando commander)

Major Morgan Q. Raventhorn (unknown, KIA)

Lieutenant Page (XO?)

Lieutenant Greeve (Sharpshooter)

Lieutenant Nik "Gramps" Sant (survival expert)

Sergeant Brooks Carlson (pathfinder)

Sergeant Junkin (explosions)

Sergeant Squalls (explosions)

Sergeant Bruckman (point)

Corporal Beezer (slicer / technician)

Corporal Delevar (medic, rookie)

Corporal Janse (sharpshooter)

Corporal Kensaric (drag)

 

Unknown:

Ibitsam (Pilot/B-Wing)

Olin Garn (Pilot)

General Madine (Commander of a cruiser)

Snoke Loroan (Pilot)

Farell (Pilot, KIA)

Keyan Farlander (Pilot)*

Hamo Blastwell (Pilot)*

Tagger (Pilot/Y-Wing, KIA)

Bowman Gavin (Pilot/B-Wing)

Throm Loro (ground forces?)

 

Ewoks:

Chief Chirpa

Graak

Kazak

Keoulkeech

Logray? (medicine man)

Lumat

Paploo (speeder bike thief)

Rabin?

Romba

Tammala (inventor)

Teebo?

Tippet - had a high standing in the alliance after Endor?

Wicket (scout)

Warwick (ROTJ novelization)

Wuta

 

Imperial Forces:

 

Capital Ships:

Executor: (Executor-class, destroyed when plunged into Death Star after bridge was rammed)

-Admiral Piett

-Captain Kallic

-Commander Merrejk

Accuser (ISD); Captured, rechristened the Emancipator

Adjudicator (ISD); Captured, rechristened the Liberator

Avenger (ISD) (served as communications ship, destroyed)

-Captain Ferdas

Chimaera: (ISD2, retrofitted)

-Executive Officer Pellaeon; Captain

-Lt. Creb, Black Wing Squadron pilot

Denunciator (ISD2)

Devastator (ISD1) (Destroyed)

-Captain Bolvan

-Lt. Hija

Eleemosynary (ISD); Fought for three hours after retreat was called, disabled, most likely scuttled.

-Grand Admiral Teshik: Escaped the exploding Death Star to get to his ship, was later captured, tried, and executed by the Rebels.

Firestorm? (or possibly the Whirlwind, both ISDs)

-Admiral Harrsk

Implacable (ISD)

-Admiral(?) Trigit

Imputator (ISD2)

Indictor (ISD2)

Judicator (ISD)

-Captain Brandei

Magic Dragon (ISD, Grand Adm. Takel's personal ship)

Pulsar (ISD); Surrendered after Imperial defeat

-Army Captain Dor Render, escaped with a captured Rebel transport

Recondite (ISD, Grand Adm. Declann's personal ship)

Redoubtable (ISD); Heavily damaged, sent to Black 15 for repair

Relentless (ISD)

-Captain Dorja

Retaliator (ISD)

Stalker (ISD):

Steadfast (ISD, Grand Adm. Makati's personal ship)

Thunderflare (ISD)

-Captain Tanda Pryl?

Tyrant (ISD1):

-Captain Lennox?

Vehement (ISD2) (Destroyed)

Visage (ISD)

Virulence: (ISD)

-Captain Joak Drysso

-Executive Officer Lakwii Varrscha; Captain

Dominator (VSD, heavily retrofitted)

 

We know that there was an Interdictor ring around the system's hyperspace vectors, and that this ring possibly included the ISD Unrepentant and the Daggerblade

 

Possible Imperial capital Ships

Garrett (ISD, Vader's personal ship in TIE Fighter)

Invincible (ISD, present at either Endor or the Tatooine blockade)

-Admiral Larin Carist

Vengeance (ISD, historical member of Death Squadron)

 

Fighter Squadrons:

 

The Emperor's Shield: (TIE/LN, travel with Emperor)

x3

 

The Emperor's Sword: (TIE/LN, travel with Emperor)

x3

 

Onyx Squadron (TIE Defenders, Death Star II?)

Onyx 1: Col. Jendon

Onyx 2: Captain Yorr

 

Scimitar Wing (Death Star II):

Scimitar Squadron: (TIE Bombers; TIE/SA)

Scimitar 1: Major Rhymer

Scimitar 2: Captain Jonus

Scythe Squadron: (TIE/LN)

Scythe 1: Major Mianda

Scythe 3: Lt. Hebsly

 

Black Squadron: (TIE/LN, stationed aboard the Executor)

Black 11: "Wampa"

 

Saber Squadron/181st: (TIE Interceptors, assigned to ISD Avenger)

Saber 1: Baron Soontir Fel

Saber 2: Major Turr Phennir

Saber 3: DS-181-3 (Fel's wingman, "Fel's Wrath")

Saber 4: DS-181-4 (Phennir's wingman)

 

Obsidian Squadron: (TIE/LN, assigned to ISD Thunderflare)

Obsidian 10: OS-72-10

 

Black Wing Squadron (TIE/LN?, assigned to Chimaera)

-Lt. Creb

 

With 27 Star Destroyers in the primary group at Endor, and two of them carrying two wings, that leaves us with 29 wings of TIEs and 145 assault gunboats . This does not count the 348 unarmed TIE/rc recon fighters. The 30th wing at the battle was aboard the Death Star, the Scimitar Assault Wing, which consisted of three squadrons of bombers, two of fighters, and one squadron of mismatched drop ships and recon vessels. Counting all of the special units aboard the Death Star, the 30 wings, etc., we have 1424 fighter/interceptor craft and 529 bomber craft for a final breakdown of...

 

726 TIE Fighters

696 TIE Interceptors

384 TIE Bombers

2(+?) TIE Defenders

145 Assault Gunboats

 

Death Star II:

Grand Admiral Declann (KIA enroute to the Emperor's throne room when the station exploded)

Grand Admiral Makati (escaped, means unknown)

Grand Admiral Takel (Spice user, escaped destruction)

Moff Jerjerrod

Admiral Chiraneau*

Captain Godherdt*

Captain Sarkli (Piett's nephew)*

Colonel Davod Jon*

Lt. Endicott*

Myn Keneugh (Royal Guard Leader)

Sim Aloo (Imperial Council Member)

Kren Blista-Vanee (Imperial Council Member)

Ars Dangor (Imperial Council Member)

Janus Greejatus (Imperial Council Member)

Sate Pestage? (Imperial Council Member, another clone?)

IG-88 A

 

"*Last seen aboard DS2, may have been stationed aboard fighters or capital ships during actual battle."

 

Ground Forces:

 

General Veers

Colonel Covell

Colonel Dyer (planned defences + assigned personnel)

 

Tempest I (AT-AT)

-Commander Igar (Overall command of ground forces)

Tempest Scout 1 (AT-ST)

-Lieutenant Arnet (AT-ST pilot who co-ordinated the suprise counter-attack on the

bunker.)

Tempest Scout 2 (AT-ST)

-Major Marquand (AT-ST pilot, KIA? by Chewbacca)

-Lt. Watts (AT-ST pilot, KIA? by Chewbacca)

Tempest Scout 3 (AT-ST)

Tempest Scout 4 (AT-ST)

Tempest Scout 5 (AT-ST)

Tempest Scout 6 (AT-ST)

 

Major Hewex (Commanded Navy Troopers in the bunker.)

Lieutenant Grond (Dyer's Aide, organised scout patrols)

Lieutenant Renz (Dyer's Aide?, infantry? commander, sent 3 squads to help the "pursuit")

Sergeant Barich (Speeder bike scout)

Sergeant Elsek (Speeder bike scout)

Sergeant Irol (Speeder bike scout)

Sergeant Tarl (Stormtrooper)

Sergeant Wallen (Stormtrooper)

Corporal Avarik (Speeder bike scout)

Corporal Drazin (Stormtrooper)

Corporal Drelosyn (Speeder bike scout)

Corporal Misik (Speeder bike scout)

Corporal Oberk (Speeder bike scout)

Trooper Fenson (Sensor operator)

Trooper Vesden (Sensor operator)

Groznik (wookiee slave)

[Lord_La_forge]

I'm out of words. This listing is superb! I never saw such precise work! Now we finally have material for the Endor Scenario...

[ADarkJedi44]

Nice work !

[Trejiuvanat]

In the word of our favorite Dark Lord: "Impressive."

[Jahled]

Indeed. Simply incredible stuff. Outstanding!

 

I believe it serves to point out the extreme crap of the rebel victory at Endor; simply impossible! With so many mile-long citadels armed for the purpose of destruction only, it seems hard to imagine how civilian-converted cruiseliners could offer to much serious challenge...

 

Bare in mind TIE fighters were designed and flown to be better than the rebellions's motley-ccollection of fighters... as quoted in the original books!

 

It goes to show that Endor was simply crap.

[luckless666]

This is brilliant!

[Shadow_of_Thrawn]

Indeed. Simply incredible stuff. Outstanding!

 

I believe it serves to point out the extreme crap of the rebel victory at Endor; simply impossible! With so many mile-long citadels armed for the purpose of destruction only, it seems hard to imagine how civilian-converted cruiseliners could offer to much serious challenge...

 

Bare in mind TIE fighters were designed and flown to be better than the rebellions's motley-ccollection of fighters... as quoted in the original books!

 

It goes to show that Endor was simply crap.

 

All of that would tend to support Zahn's version, that the Imperial Officers and Crew were essentially imbeciles and uncoordinated masses once the Emporer was gone, or at least distracted with Skywalker. Also gives some backing for the Seat of Power Effect in Rebellion.

[luckless666]

Indeed. Simply incredible stuff. Outstanding!

 

I believe it serves to point out the extreme crap of the rebel victory at Endor; simply impossible! With so many mile-long citadels armed for the purpose of destruction only, it seems hard to imagine how civilian-converted cruiseliners could offer to much serious challenge...

 

Bare in mind TIE fighters were designed and flown to be better than the rebellions's motley-ccollection of fighters... as quoted in the original books!

 

It goes to show that Endor was simply crap.

 

All of that would tend to support Zahn's version, that the Imperial Officers and Crew were essentially imbeciles and uncoordinated masses once the Emporer was gone, or at least distracted with Skywalker. Also gives some backing for the Seat of Power Effect in Rebellion.

 

I always believed this theory, as, lets face it, pretty much the entire rebel fleet was present at Endor, with only a few ships missing, and the empire had at least 24,000 ISDs. Thats not mentioning VSDs and the hundreds of thousands of smaller support vessels (It states in my Star Wars mag from way back, quoting from the Imperial Sourcebook and Galaxy Guides, that a typical sector fleet has 24 ISDs and around 2000 capital-size support vessels). It is IMPOSSIBLE, with or without an Emperor, for the Rebellion to take it down as quickly as it did, unless the Emperor did have a strong mental hold on them, and they were simply uncoordinated when he didn't.

[Shadow_of_Thrawn]

My personal rationalization...accounting more for the rebels quick and steady advance from the time of endor to the thrawn crisis, is that there must have been defections en masse on the imperial side and quite a few zsingi-like admirals "going warlord"...that plus the imperial fleet being tied down throughout the galaxy putting down local uprisings, leaving the rebels free reign in the outer-rim. It would seem that they would have had to have seized a major shipyard very soon after endor, as the fleet at endor would have been hard-pressed to take on even one of the sector fleets mentioned above, and with their only sources for new ships being theft, capture, and purchase from the corellians and mon calamari, its pretty clear that they could not hope to match the Imperial fleet even in isolated engagements. Based on a map that someone posted a while back, the most likely target would have probably been either SLuis Van, or even FOndor. I have actually begun a novella based around that premise, though my college seems to think i would be using my time better writing 20 page papers for my history major, so it remains to be seen when that will actually come to fruition.

[Texas_Fett]

As was discussed here, I'm also a big advocate of the "Seat of Power" effect. I think another big consideration is the fact that the Imperial Fleet at Endor was ordered only to contain the Rebels, not engage and destroy them. Combined with the cohesion and leadership bestowed upon each and every rank & file crewman by the Emperor, and you had a directive which they could not ignore. Therefore, they didn't engage the Rebels to the level they were capable of, allowing the Rebels a 'head start' in the conflict. In addition, Thrawn mentioned a period of 'confusion' experienced by the Imperials once the Emperor died, suggesting a 'hangover' peroid once the Emperor (involuntarily) relenquished his control over their minds.

 

Referencing the force listing I posted above, I noticed two interesting facts that I think needs bearing out:

 

Total number of Rebel fighters (X-wings, A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, and Z-95s) after calculating the fighter capacity of the named vessels gives us a conservative minimum of 495 Rebel fighters, with a possible maximum of 747. I believe the total number to be around 600.

 

With 27 Star Destroyers in the primary group at Endor, and two of them carrying two wings, that leaves us with 29 wings of TIEs and 145 assault gunboats . This does not count the 348 unarmed TIE/rc recon fighters. The 30th wing at the battle was aboard the Death Star, the Scimitar Assault Wing, which consisted of three squadrons of bombers, two of fighters, and one squadron of mismatched drop ships and recon vessels. Counting all of the special units aboard the Death Star, the 30 wings, etc., we have 1424 fighter/interceptor craft and 529 bomber craft for a final breakdown of...

 

726 TIE Fighters

696 TIE Interceptors

384 TIE Bombers

2(+?) TIE Defenders

145 Assault Gunboats

 

Now, let's assume that the Emperor still retains his "Seat of Power" effect, and together with his order not to engage the Rebels, his subordinate Admirals, Commanders, flightcrews, gunners, etc. obey wholeheartedly. We can immediately eliminate the usage of the TIE Bombers and Assault Gunboats in the battle, as they are most suited to engaging capital ships. Not wanting anthing to upstage his show, the Emperor would have ensured that they were not used.

 

Secondly, while the Emperor had warning of the Rebel fleet's approach, the Imperial fleet had to hide on the far side of Endor (the Sanctuary Moon, or the planet itself? ). Now, given the sudden-ness of their appearance once the Rebel fleet turned around from the Death Star, I'd be inclined to assume that the Imperials executed a short hyperspace jump to bring them into action (gravity well arguements aside). Therefore, they would have had to disgorge all of their fighter complements, requiring an excessive amount of time in which the Rebel fighters, who were already deployed, to match up in more even numbers and 'even the odds'. And while the Rebel starfighter complement included fighters, they were not above using them in dogfights, unlike the Imperials.

 

Thirdly, when the Rebel fleet moves closer to the Imperial fleet, I'd suggest that the Star Destroyers didn't engage them at full power, for reasons stated above. Volleys were exchanged, to be sure, but that would explain why so few Rebel capital ships were damaged/destroyed in ship-to-ship engagements.

 

Mix in a healty portion of "The Good Guys must ALWAYS win", a helping of "Arvel Crynyd", and the loss of a communications ship and the Executor, and viola! One massive Imperial defeat at Endor!

 

Lesson learned: if Thrawn had been in charge, the outcome would have been COMPLETELY reversed, IMHO.

[Shadow_of_Thrawn]

I think the lesson Zahn wants us to learn is that if thrawn were in charge of anything the outcome would be different.

 

Also, one more thing with starfighters...most of what i have read paints the rebel fighters as superior to their imperial counterparts. Original ties beat y-wings, but x-wings are in turn superior to ties. Interceptors are better than x-wings, but outclassed by a-wings. THe B-wing meanwhile doesnt real have a counterpart, with the closest being either TIE bombers or gunboats (which i dont believe are ever actually seen in the films themselves, same as the defenders that were supposed to be there). The rebel fighters would therefore be superior in quality, if inferior in numbers. This gap is further closed by the abilities of rebel ships like the corvettes and nebulon-Bs with their anti-fighter capability. Combine these things, and the fact that the early part of the battle was essentially a dog fight between the rebel fleet and the imperial fighters and the imperial advantage in fighters was probably negated by the time the rebel ships began taking fire from the death star and engaged the star destroyers

[Texas_Fett]

I think the lesson Zahn wants us to learn is that if thrawn were in charge of anything the outcome would be different.

Point conceded.

 

Also, one more thing with starfighters...most of what i have read paints the rebel fighters as superior to their imperial counterparts. Original ties beat y-wings, but x-wings are in turn superior to ties. Interceptors are better than x-wings, but outclassed by a-wings. THe B-wing meanwhile doesnt real have a counterpart, with the closest being either TIE bombers or gunboats (which i dont believe are ever actually seen in the films themselves, same as the defenders that were supposed to be there). The rebel fighters would therefore be superior in quality, if inferior in numbers. This gap is further closed by the abilities of rebel ships like the corvettes and nebulon-Bs with their anti-fighter capability. Combine these things, and the fact that the early part of the battle was essentially a dog fight between the rebel fleet and the imperial fighters and the imperial advantage in fighters was probably negated by the time the rebel ships began taking fire from the death star and engaged the star destroyers

EXACTLY! I kind of assumed that the quality of starfighters was inferred, but thanks for clearing that up. And kudos for noting the Corvettes and Neb-B's.

[Chimera]

The time it takes to unload ties is a royal pain. If you don't send them out to engage right away, you will significantly increase their effectiveness so if the Empire did send them into the fray as soon as they came out of the hanger (due to Emperor hangover, incompetence, or arrogance) it would easy to reduce those fighter odds.

 

Of course, defeating those capital ship odds is much harder to explain... By the time you polished off the Ties, you should have no capital ships left even if the DS2 went boom. Especially since they engaged at close range to hide from the DS2.

 

Maybe when the DS2 went boom some IMPs turned tail and/or defected? The rebels suddenly had a fair number of ISDs/VSDs in the books after Endor...

[luckless666]

Based on a map that someone posted a while back, the most likely target would have probably been either SLuis Van, or even FOndor

 

Yes, from books I've read, Fondor and Sluis Van fell relatively earlier. Also, there must of been mass defections and multiple uprisings. It was said that the Imperial Navy's and Army's finest young cadets were aboard the Executor when it went down, something the Imperials never recovered from.

 

Original ties beat y-wings, but x-wings are in turn superior to ties. Interceptors are better than x-wings, but outclassed by a-wings. THe B-wing meanwhile doesnt real have a counterpart, with the closest being either TIE bombers or gunboats (which i dont believe are ever actually seen in the films themselves, same as the defenders that were supposed to be there). The rebel fighters would therefore be superior in quality, if inferior in numbers.

 

The Imperial fighter strategy was to be superior in numbers. They are very inexpensive and easy to make. The TIE Defender was the ultimate starfighter, however, mass production of this was kept back by imperial admirality, who were afraid that having a TIE capable of hyperspace would mean a slash in orders for TIE carriers (princiably the ISDs). Just goes to show beaurcracy played its part in bringing the imps down. Later the Scimeter (sp?) bomber out did the B-Wing (post-Endor), and also there was the 'Missile Boat' for the Computer game TIE Fighter, which certainly out did the B-Wing, and this was pre-Endor.

 

Of course, defeating those capital ship odds is much harder to explain... By the time you polished off the Ties, you should have no capital ships left even if the DS2 went boom. Especially since they engaged at close range to hide from the DS2.

 

Maybe when the DS2 went boom some IMPs turned tail and/or defected? The rebels suddenly had a fair number of ISDs/VSDs in the books after Endor...

 

I read that the Rebs captured two ISDs, several defected and most retreated. I'm supposing seeing the DS2 blow, losing the communication ship and seeing Lord Vaders flagship and pride of the Navy go down would have given them a serious shaking, and aided in miss communication. Also, they wouldn't know if the Emperor had died or not and if their orders to not engage still stood or not. I'm sure they would of lost a fair few ISDs before they decided to fully engage, couple that with defections and outright withdrawls and the Imperial Fleet was devastated.

[Shadow_of_Thrawn]

I read that the Rebs captured two ISDs, several defected and most retreated. I'm supposing seeing the DS2 blow, losing the communication ship and seeing Lord Vaders flagship and pride of the Navy go down would have given them a serious shaking, and aided in miss communication. Also, they wouldn't know if the Emperor had died or not and if their orders to not engage still stood or not. I'm sure they would of lost a fair few ISDs before they decided to fully engage, couple that with defections and outright withdrawls and the Imperial Fleet was devastated.

 

Based on what I remember of Thrawn's conversation with C'Baoth, the Empire lost six ISDs between the time of the Death Star's destruction and the withdrawal. In the X-WIng series (i think it was the X-Wing Series at least) the authors say that 2 more ISDs were captured. All this apparently happened before, if i remember the story correctly, Pellaeon ordered the retreat. That's the way I remember reading it, but it seems odd for a man that had at the beginning of the battle had been an XO to suddenly be in command of the entire fleet. Even if every ship in the fleet took damage, thats something like thirty dead captains, or a major breakdown in the chain of command.

[Trejiuvanat]

The latter, most likely. I'd say also that the Chimaera was pretty high in the hierarchy at Endor. Plus, after the destruction of the Death Star there wasn't much point in staying.

Pellaeon wasn't in command of the entire fleet he just happened to be the one who gave the order.

[vakundok]

Was it Pellaeon who gave the order at all? If I remember well, the novel only said that six destroyers plus the Executor were lost before the retreat order was given ...

 

BTW: Likely both the Defiance and the Independence were Home One- type cruisers instead of simple wingless ones. (Sources: Pictures of those ships in the SW Customizable Card Game, the destruction of the second ship in the movie and cutscenes showing Madine commanding (riding ) a ship from a (human crewed) bridge seemingly identical to the one on Home One.)

[the_mask]

It's written, that Pellaeon gave the order somewhere in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

 

Yeah, I got that picture of Madine too. In a deleted scene he died with that ship, but later GL allowed him to live

[Texas_Fett]

If memory serves correctly, wasn't the Chimaera the next ship in the Chain of Command after the Executor?

 

As for Madine, it would've been better if GL had let him die at Endor. By letting him live, he consigned him to death via a cold-blooded, point-blank shot from a Hutt in the 'Darksaber' novels. More likely he cut the scene so he could continue the 'canon' fact of Mon Cal Cruisers needing Mon Cal crews, thanks to their complicated interfaces. Having Madine on a Mon Cal ship but with a human bridge crew kinda screws that notion up a bit.

[vakundok]

It's written, that Pellaeon gave the order somewhere in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

Are you definitely sure? I think I could remember such a piece, so I thought it was written in the duology (that I do not have) or elsewhere ...

 

Texas Fett:

In my opinion:

The chain of command is about commanders, not about ships. The captain of the Chimera could only give orders to lower ranking officers or captains with less service time. (A good example is the movie Air Force One.) So, it is extremely weird to have at least one grand admiral in a fleet which is commanded by a mere admiral even before the chaos of battle.

 

Else:

Wasn't the Avenger only a relay for the communication ship?

[Texas_Fett]

Texas Fett:

In my opinion:

The chain of command is about commanders, not about ships. The captain of the Chimera could only give orders to lower ranking officers or captains with less service time. (A good example is the movie Air Force One.) So, it is extremely weird to have at least one grand admiral in a fleet which is commanded by a mere admiral even before the chaos of battle.

Believe me, I'm quite familiar with the workings of individual ranks of officers in the military. I'm just attempting to come up with a rational explanation as to why Pellaeon would be the one to give the retreat order.

 

The only logical explanation I can think of is that with the "Imperial Death Squadron" incommunicado, the command ship for the next largest task force would have become the "flag ship". Now, I'm jumping to some wild conclusions here, but given that some of the Imperials didn't heed the order, I'd have to assume that Pellaeon ordered the ships in his taskforce to retreat and that several other craft agreed with his assessment and complied.

[the_mask]

Are you definitely sure? I think I could remember such a piece, so I thought it was written in the duology (that I do not have) or elsewhere ...

Sure I'm sure

I have read the books a while ago again and you can also read it in the CUSWE under Pellaeon's entry.

[vakundok]

"The Star Destroyer Chimaera was part of the Imperial fleet amassed at the Battle of Endor. When a concentrated assault by Rebel forces killed the ship's captain, Pellaeon seized command of the vessel as the Imperial Fleet was routed. All throughout the battle, Imperial officers were committing tactical blunders, choosing to go out in a blaze of glory than call for a prudent retreat. It was Pellaeon who issued the final order to withdraw, commanding the remnants of the fleet to regroup at Annaj."

OK, it was Pellaeon.

 

Likely the admirals and highers knew that Palpatine had a battle plan and that actually it was he, who was in charge even before the battle, but it became clear even for the average captains after they were ordered to hold and the DS started to decimate the rebell fleet.

With the loss of the Executor the chain of command did not loose the first, but instead the second in command. I think, untill the destruction of the DS, the admirals were probably trying to contact Palpatine. After the loss of the DS? Well it suddenly became clear who was the next in the chain, but with the presumed death of the emperor the war was also lost. There were three option: Surrender, fighting to death trying to cause as many damage to the rebels as they could (like Jerjerrod in the novelisation) or retreating. As I said, the war was already lost so, the chain of command had no real meaning. What is needed in such chaos is a determined leader, not necesserely an officer. (In the battletech universe (in a similar situation), Phelan Kell, approximately a slave gave orders to a whole flagship, and even officers who knew him (his standing) accomplished those orders.)

[Mad78]

Well I think the reason everybody took the order was that any captain with a sense of logic would understand that the battle was lost and that the imp fleet would only succed in losing more ships if they stayed.

[ElvisMiggell]

Didn't one of Covell and Veers die at Hoth?