Impressions

[karamazovmm]

I was wondering if there is some info regarding the planets. I have played this mod since entrenchment and only recently got back to it in rebellion (bought it in steam summer sale) and there are a ton of new planets out there.

 

I ask this because I do build my own custom maps that are focused on unfair, i.e. rapid expansion on both AI and player (very high resources for both), one choke point for major battles (major rush to that, sometimes beaten to it), and after the choke point very hard expansion with tons of connections and flanking possibilities. Basically think the maps that I make as a daisy, with the choke in the middle and the petals all overlapping each other after the middle.

 

I will put more things here once I play more with the 1088. I have a ton of impressions regarding the 095.

 

Addedum due to pc constraints I play usually with empire, NR, alliance, vong occasionally. CIS and republic have too much fighters and kills my poor 2009 notebook

 

PS: if anyone is interested on the current map I can post here, right now its mostly terran planets with some urban hubs for fleet construction, apparently from what I read on the SVN reports ORD and shipyard planets are the best for that

[Evaders99]

You could start at NovaCameron's planet page, since he did most of the work there

viewtopic.php?t=27787

[karamazovmm]

thanks! that sure is helpful

 

soon I will add bits for the frigates and suggestion on balance changes

 

currently my fleets with NR are basically 8 command caps with 40 proficients, there is no discernible other fleet that makes sense, that is with 095, once I get more experiments with 1088 I will add here

 

one question why the mon cal carrier doesn't carry even the same amount of fighters as other caps? I now it has the power to shields ability (as well as high shields) and dishes a lot of damage, maybe weakening it a bit should be better and reducing the supply cost in exchange, it will overlap the other cap carrier, but currently I see no reason to field that ship, since its high supply cost coupled with not so astonishing damage dealt it becomes neither a damage dealer nor a carrier. I don't know if you can level the abilities since I have been only testing balance on a small custom map to see what each ship offers, i.e. 1vX engagement of ships

 

Im going to be truthful here I never saw the reason of those other caps aside the command ships, high cost, not enough power and no levelling, in 095 at least

[Lavo]

The Mon Calamari Heavy Carrier is a carrier in name only; lore wise I'm going with the explanation that this naming scheme was used as to not make people scared. Ingame it's a heavy combatant, with plenty of guns and shielding to match. The Endurance is the NR's Venator, high fighter capacity, decent shielding, but low DPS. In fact it was based off of an older revision of the Venator, which used to have less fighters.

 

Command ships vs. non-command ships is a choice a player has to make. Initially, the former has equal strength to non-command ships, in addition to costing more in terms of resources (25% more) and supply (10 more). Of course, it benefits from leveling, which can be a key advantage. The question is if the leveling is worth the costs of the ship? That depends entirely on your play style, as there are arguments that support purely command ships, no command ships (albeit this particular one has few), and a mix.

 

Proficients are good damage sinks, and they are inexpensive. That's about it really; their DPS is utter trash. For focus fire against a single target, a Corona dishes out more damage, though it's more vulnerable to capital ships and starfighter missiles.

[karamazovmm]

The Mon Calamari Heavy Carrier is a carrier in name only; lore wise I'm going with the explanation that this naming scheme was used as to not make people scared. Ingame it's a heavy combatant, with plenty of guns and shielding to match. The Endurance is the NR's Venator, high fighter capacity, decent shielding, but low DPS. In fact it was based off of an older revision of the Venator, which used to have less fighters.

lore wise Im only familiar with select novels (a lot of them make me cringe when reading, that series about the solos kids is probably one of the worst things that I laid my eyes on) but I read all the gong arc novels for the NR, haven't read yet the caedus arc. lore wise I can't remember the ship, thus why I asked a stupid question.

 

however given the supply cost increase of the command ships the problem becomes less prominent, although I do think it still costs a bit much.

 

Another that I will raise is with the empire caps costs, aside the command ships there is no other cap in there, except the broadside, that makes sense for you to purchase, given that they are limited

 

Command ships vs. non-command ships is a choice a player has to make. Initially, the former has equal strength to non-command ships, in addition to costing more in terms of resources (25% more) and supply (10 more). Of course, it benefits from leveling, which can be a key advantage. The question is if the leveling is worth the costs of the ship? That depends entirely on your play style, as there are arguments that support purely command ships, no command ships (albeit this particular one has few), and a mix.

given that command ships give you more benefits, 10 supply is quite a low cost, with empire I can field one more vindicator or strike cruiser with that, but it won't affect the other ships positively and have more abilities

 

how about lowering the cost of the caps a bit? the non command ones, except the broadside at 7 which I think is one tantalising option

 

in the end making a fleet of caps can have its benefits, but in the end its not supply effective and the lower experience gain makes it a liability in mid late game, when most of my fleets have 8-10 experience (I sacrifice cannon fodder to preserve the caps)

 

although its kind of childish on my part since I do rely on at least 5 fleets, otherwise in my maps you are dead on the water after the struggle for the middle choke. However I think a lower supply cost on non commanding caps would make the other caps more appealing, since the frigates are too cheap

 

Proficients are good damage sinks, and they are inexpensive. That's about it really; their DPS is utter trash. For focus fire against a single target, a Corona dishes out more damage, though it's more vulnerable to capital ships and starfighter missiles.

 

yep, but in terms of supply costs they make a perfect combo, and in the end its large fleets vs large fleets engagements where they shine, there they soak damage and have 2 banks of firing from my observation (don't know if its true), which means my caps can survive and they are rather inexpensive and cheap to replace

 

off course I can replace then with the defender (a bit less than 2x the firepower), but not with the corona

 

Im sorry if I stepped on some toes thats not the idea, its simply that since Im in the beta, thus trying to give as much feedback as I can

 

Currently I like very much:

 

how the tech tree is, there are some texts that are enigmatic (will provide all the ones that are latter), but it has improved since the 095

 

The raise of the cost of the command caps in the NR

 

and the nerf and raise all around, the gameplay has improved a lot

[Lavo]

Im sorry if I stepped on some toes thats not the idea, its simply that since Im in the beta, thus trying to give as much feedback as I can

You aren't stepping on toes at all, in fact, I like people such as yourself and I apologize if I'm making it appear that I feel offended or something, as it's far from that. I cannot emphasize enough how much I enjoy reading feedback and constructive criticism. It's been too long since I last got feedback like this!

 

lore wise Im only familiar with select novels (a lot of them make me cringe when reading, that series about the solos kids is probably one of the worst things that I laid my eyes on) but I read all the gong arc novels for the NR, haven't read yet the caedus arc. lore wise I can't remember the ship, thus why I asked a stupid question.

It's not a stupid question at all. In fact, the ship doesn't even have any real stats or images, which is most likely why you don't remember it. I greatly enjoy taking vague concepts and morphing them into something useful.

 

however given the supply cost increase of the command ships the problem becomes less prominent, although I do think it still costs a bit much.

 

Another that I will raise is with the empire caps costs, aside the command ships there is no other cap in there, except the broadside, that makes sense for you to purchase, given that they are limited

Capital ship slots are actually unlimited. The Broadside and Dreadnaught are not "real" capital ships, they are only there as making them frigates with bombing capabilities breaks a lot of things. This was the best workaround possible, given that the Titan entity exists in Rebellion. A more fleshed out wall of test can be found here.

 

given that command ships give you more benefits, 10 supply is quite a low cost, with empire I can field one more vindicator or strike cruiser with that, but it won't affect the other ships positively and have more abilities

 

how about lowering the cost of the caps a bit? the non command ones, except the broadside at 7 which I think is one tantalising option

 

in the end making a fleet of caps can have its benefits, but in the end its not supply effective and the lower experience gain makes it a liability in mid late game, when most of my fleets have 8-10 experience (I sacrifice cannon fodder to preserve the caps)

Do recall that the baseline ISD-II and the ISD-II Command have the same starting stats, but the former is much more expendable. In fact, you could theoretically use the non-command ISD-IIs as even better fodder while your main ships retreat, due to their superior health. You do bring up valid points here, and as such, perhaps rather than a flat out 10 supply increase for command ships, it should be a percentage increase, similar to resource costs? Using the 25% as an example, this would make the ISD-II Command cost 54 supply, though other command ships, such as the Jedi Venator, would in fact get a reduced supply cost this way. Admittedly the 10 was an arbitrary valuation of command abilities by myself.

 

yep, but in terms of supply costs they make a perfect combo, and in the end its large fleets vs large fleets engagements where they shine, there they soak damage and have 2 banks of firing from my observation (don't know if its true), which means my caps can survive and they are rather inexpensive and cheap to replace

 

off course I can replace then with the defender (a bit less than 2x the firepower), but not with the corona

Perfectly valid to bring it up. In fact, you are not the first person to bring up Proficients being possibly OP and/or too easily replaced. It's something that I should, and will, seriously consider. The Proficient has 1 firing bank, however it can fire both to the front and to the left and right sides.

 

how the tech tree is, there are some texts that are enigmatic (will provide all the ones that are latter), but it has improved since the 095

Tech descriptions really are a mess for the most part. I won't lie to you, many haven't been changed since before I got involved with SoGE, which is over .3-4 years ago or so.

 

The raise of the cost of the command caps in the NR

I'm curious as to why you think that the NR command capitals (Rejuvinator SD, MC90) need a raise in cost. For the Rej it's not the first time I've heard it before, though it is for the MC90. The reason I ask in particular is that the NR is the most capital ship dependent of all races, which is something that some argue makes them OP.

[karamazovmm]

You aren't stepping on toes at all, in fact, I like people such as yourself and I apologize if I'm making it appear that I feel offended or something, as it's far from that. I cannot emphasize enough how much I enjoy reading feedback and constructive criticism. It's been too long since I last got feedback like this!

 

great to be of help, as a developer I know that you just can't bash out

 

and I wasn't pointing out on your writing or evaders, I was pointing out before things get nasty, I had some problems over TW mods, thats why I decided to post that before the possible outcome

 

It's not a stupid question at all. In fact, the ship doesn't even have any real stats or images, which is most likely why you don't remember it. I greatly enjoy taking vague concepts and morphing them into something useful.

 

thats interesting, I haven't read the caedus arc probably why I can't remember one thing that I never knew

 

btw is it any good? I liked the obi wan arc on the republic storyline, but the anakin arc, its really also in the garbage pile

 

 

Capital ship slots are actually unlimited. The Broadside and Dreadnaught are not "real" capital ships, they are only there as making them frigates with bombing capabilities breaks a lot of things. This was the best workaround possible, given that the Titan entity exists in Rebellion. A more fleshed out wall of test can be found here.

 

good to know I heard that before, which explains the costs of those smaller caps, the problem remains to balance the xp gained by those vessels, some races are as you said more dependant on caps than others, and in the end the xp attribute is distributed among all races is static, though that in itself poses the balance needed for those heavily dependant cap factions

 

Do recall that the baseline ISD-II and the ISD-II Command have the same starting stats, but the former is much more expendable. In fact, you could theoretically use the non-command ISD-IIs as even better fodder while your main ships retreat, due to their superior health. You do bring up valid points here, and as such, perhaps rather than a flat out 10 supply increase for command ships, it should be a percentage increase, similar to resource costs? Using the 25% as an example, this would make the ISD-II Command cost 54 supply, though other command ships, such as the Jedi Venator, would in fact get a reduced supply cost this way. Admittedly the 10 was an arbitrary valuation of command abilities by myself.

 

I think that we need to look that as a faction by basis, static incremental upgrades carried over all factions will be problematic as you pointed out.

 

I was actually thinking of,

 

for empire

 

- remove the ISD 2 that isn't command

- allow the ISD 1 to be a real cap instead of frigate as it is know

- lower the cost of the VSD 18 supply should do fine, or maybe even a bit less

- maybe add a squad of ties in the dreadnaught? I think its fine as it is, but between that and the vindicator I always choose the vindicator

 

that should give the empire more interesting choices in terms of fleet composition, I know its a players preference on how they build the fleet, but in the end cost effectiveness comes to mind when raising them

 

For NR

 

- lower the cost of the Hapan, maybe 14 supply should be fine or even 12

- lower the cost of the Majestic, 16 or 14 supply

- lower the cost of the bothan, I know its a heavy hitter, but its not that boost worth, specially when you have the mon cal H carrier, around 30 should do it

- combine the endurance with the nebula, make it a real carrier as the endurance, transform it as a real cap

- would vouch for the mon cal H carrier be made a real cap and raise the cost of it a little (as a bonus for being a real cap)

 

the idea is to have the player chose less the proficient and bring a more mixed fleet to the fold, one that isn't so cannon fodder

 

 

Perfectly valid to bring it up. In fact, you are not the first person to bring up Proficients being possibly OP and/or too easily replaced. It's something that I should, and will, seriously consider. The Proficient has 1 firing bank, however it can fire both to the front and to the left and right sides.

 

well they are frigates, they are supposed to be easily replaceable, as far as OP, I really don't think they are

 

the problem in the NR lies on the frigates that are available, you add a premium for bombing capable ones, which is really OK, however for some frigates that are caps we enter the problem of really not worth it, and the other frigates available are really support, for example if I bring the bothan cruiser, it will die in and engagement within seconds, probably will have to rebuild it even during battle, and the rest is really support. so that leaves you with the defender and proficient as true frigates, and the proficient deals with fighters which is another plus

 

 

Tech descriptions really are a mess for the most part. I won't lie to you, many haven't been changed since before I got involved with SoGE, which is over .3-4 years ago or so.

 

maybe this is a contribution that I can offer, I will post some that are in real need of replacement and if you explain to me what they do I will post the text that are supposed to be replaced

 

 

I'm curious as to why you think that the NR command capitals (Rejuvinator SD, MC90) need a raise in cost. For the Rej it's not the first time I've heard it before, though it is for the MC90. The reason I ask in particular is that the NR is the most capital ship dependent of all races, which is something that some argue makes them OP.

in the end the mc90 is a really good pound taker and damage dealer on a toe to toe basis it beats the rejuvenator, however the bonus for other ships makes it up for the rej to stay as it is. I actually liked the raised costs because I felt that it forces you to choose other caps in turn and thus bring more variety to my fleet

 

to be a cap based faction doesn't make you op, if its balanced in itself, and that also brings the other problem xp, a lvl 3 against a lvl 7 cap is not a fair fight, and that happens often on those fleets that rely heavily on caps

 

btw one thing I noticed, the 1088 is giving me a lot of mini dumps, which didn't happen on the 095

 

another thing is that I saw to my surprise 2 executor from the same faction in a battle, which was more troublesome was the fact that there was 4 executor in that battle, I lost that one badly, retreating wasn't as fast enough as I wanted

[Evaders99]

I can't speak for any of the gameplay designs. For the minidumps, did you try turning off anti-aliasing?

 

On the Caedus arc, I'm guessing you mean the Legacy of the Force novels. If you liked the more darker, adult environment that NJO started, you would like Legacy. If you didn't like NJO, you definitely wouldn't like Legacy.

[karamazovmm]

I can't speak for any of the gameplay designs. For the minidumps, did you try turning off anti-aliasing?

 

On the Caedus arc, I'm guessing you mean the Legacy of the Force novels. If you liked the more darker, adult environment that NJO started, you would like Legacy. If you didn't like NJO, you definitely wouldn't like Legacy.

AA is completely off

 

I will try to read it, I actually liked NJO very much, it was by far the best series in star wars for me so far, more of an adult approach, no shenanigans and character development, I still feel sad for chewie

[Evaders99]

You think losing Chewie was sad. I'm not going to spoil things further, but Legacy novels are definitely more adult

[Lavo]

thats interesting, I haven't read the caedus arc probably why I can't remember one thing that I never knew

 

btw is it any good? I liked the obi wan arc on the republic storyline, but the anakin arc, its really also in the garbage pile

I haven't read the Vong and post-Vong much personally.

 

- remove the ISD 2 that isn't command

- allow the ISD 1 to be a real cap instead of frigate as it is know

- lower the cost of the VSD 18 supply should do fine, or maybe even a bit less

- maybe add a squad of ties in the dreadnaught? I think its fine as it is, but between that and the vindicator I always choose the vindicator

Doing that would remove choice from the player, and leaving no non-command ISDs would put the Empire at a disadvantage. Making the VSD cost less would make it extremely unbalanced vs. other factions which depend on ships of comparable strength (ex. Republic, CIS). The Dreadnaught is a second line old ship and cheap planet bomber, though it has more firepower than the Vindicator.

 

- lower the cost of the Hapan, maybe 14 supply should be fine or even 12

The Hapan is a unique craft. Unlike every other ship in the game, it's DPS is all directed against a single target. It's really powerful in the right hands, and isn't meant to be used in large numbers.

 

- lower the cost of the Majestic, 16 or 14 supply

- lower the cost of the bothan, I know its a heavy hitter, but its not that boost worth, specially when you have the mon cal H carrier, around 30 should do it

Both of these are things I should look at, agreed.

 

- combine the endurance with the nebula, make it a real carrier as the endurance, transform it as a real cap

I don't like this idea. Perhaps instead, remove planet bombing from the Endurance and make it a frigate entity? Actually I'll do that.

 

- would vouch for the mon cal H carrier be made a real cap and raise the cost of it a little (as a bonus for being a real cap)

There's no real need to make it a command, as it has no abilities, and plus I'm afraid doing so would make it even more powerful, which is the last thing I want to do.

 

the idea is to have the player chose less the proficient and bring a more mixed fleet to the fold, one that isn't so cannon fodder

Owing to what you mentioned earlier, the Prof will have it's cost increased by 15%.

 

 

maybe this is a contribution that I can offer, I will post some that are in real need of replacement and if you explain to me what they do I will post the text that are supposed to be replaced

This would be great. I would appreciate the help for this a lot.

 

btw one thing I noticed, the 1088 is giving me a lot of mini dumps, which didn't happen on the 095

Make sure AA is off, though Rebellion lately has been seemingly unstable, it's not just you. Make sure you got a paging file on for the partition Sins is on, or move Sins to a partition with a paging file.

 

another thing is that I saw to my surprise 2 executor from the same faction in a battle, which was more troublesome was the fact that there was 4 executor in that battle, I lost that one badly, retreating wasn't as fast enough as I wanted

2 Executors from 2 allied AIs, or one single AI?

[karamazovmm]

thats interesting, I haven't read the caedus arc probably why I can't remember one thing that I never knew

 

btw is it any good? I liked the obi wan arc on the republic storyline, but the anakin arc, its really also in the garbage pile

I haven't read the Vong and post-Vong much personally.

 

- remove the ISD 2 that isn't command

- allow the ISD 1 to be a real cap instead of frigate as it is know

- lower the cost of the VSD 18 supply should do fine, or maybe even a bit less

- maybe add a squad of ties in the dreadnaught? I think its fine as it is, but between that and the vindicator I always choose the vindicator

Doing that would remove choice from the player, and leaving no non-command ISDs would put the Empire at a disadvantage. Making the VSD cost less would make it extremely unbalanced vs. other factions which depend on ships of comparable strength (ex. Republic, CIS). The Dreadnaught is a second line old ship and cheap planet bomber, though it has more firepower than the Vindicator.

 

- lower the cost of the Hapan, maybe 14 supply should be fine or even 12

The Hapan is a unique craft. Unlike every other ship in the game, it's DPS is all directed against a single target. It's really powerful in the right hands, and isn't meant to be used in large numbers.

 

- lower the cost of the Majestic, 16 or 14 supply

- lower the cost of the bothan, I know its a heavy hitter, but its not that boost worth, specially when you have the mon cal H carrier, around 30 should do it

Both of these are things I should look at, agreed.

 

- combine the endurance with the nebula, make it a real carrier as the endurance, transform it as a real cap

I don't like this idea. Perhaps instead, remove planet bombing from the Endurance and make it a frigate entity? Actually I'll do that.

 

- would vouch for the mon cal H carrier be made a real cap and raise the cost of it a little (as a bonus for being a real cap)

There's no real need to make it a command, as it has no abilities, and plus I'm afraid doing so would make it even more powerful, which is the last thing I want to do.

 

the idea is to have the player chose less the proficient and bring a more mixed fleet to the fold, one that isn't so cannon fodder

Owing to what you mentioned earlier, the Prof will have it's cost increased by 15%.

 

 

maybe this is a contribution that I can offer, I will post some that are in real need of replacement and if you explain to me what they do I will post the text that are supposed to be replaced

This would be great. I would appreciate the help for this a lot.

 

btw one thing I noticed, the 1088 is giving me a lot of mini dumps, which didn't happen on the 095

Make sure AA is off, though Rebellion lately has been seemingly unstable, it's not just you. Make sure you got a paging file on for the partition Sins is on, or move Sins to a partition with a paging file.

 

another thing is that I saw to my surprise 2 executor from the same faction in a battle, which was more troublesome was the fact that there was 4 executor in that battle, I lost that one badly, retreating wasn't as fast enough as I wanted

2 Executors from 2 allied AIs, or one single AI?

[Lavo]

Unfortunately, I think something got broken with that post. :v

[karamazovmm]

Unfortunately, I think something got broken with that post. :v

its appearing for me now, it wouldn't register, but I hope its fixed

 

and no its not showing, I will reposte here, glad I saved it

 

- remove the ISD 2 that isn't command

- allow the ISD 1 to be a real cap instead of frigate as it is know

- lower the cost of the VSD 18 supply should do fine, or maybe even a bit less

- maybe add a squad of ties in the dreadnaught? I think its fine as it is, but between that and the vindicator I always choose the vindicator

Doing that would remove choice from the player, and leaving no non-command ISDs would put the Empire at a disadvantage. Making the VSD cost less would make it extremely unbalanced vs. other factions which depend on ships of comparable strength (ex. Republic, CIS). The Dreadnaught is a second line old ship and cheap planet bomber, though it has more firepower than the Vindicator.

The idea of the changes is to bring more choice, despite the disappearance of the ISD2 frigate. because in the end the non commanding units are treated as frigates, thus cannon fodder, though in that a very expensive and harder to replace cannon fodder.

 

I didn't mention the abilities of the ISD 1, but I wasn't thinking of commanding ones, simply some involving damage dealing, since its assumed that the empire didn't have any defensive abilities, I don't know of any and never saw it applied in games

 

with the absence of the ISD 2 frigate and flesh out of the IDS1 as a cap, the problem (for me) with the disadvantages of less choice is to actually have choice. I did at first chose to build some ISD2 for the fleets, but in the end it didn't offer me a good bang for the buck and it was eventually flushed out of the choice roosters, thus it was replaced more with a mix of vindicators and strike cruisers, I do lose fighters, but I get more staying power, more soaking damage, less expensive, easier to replace, doesn't interfere with the xp for the caps that need it.

 

thats why despite losing something you are actually giving the player more choice.

 

Im not going to comment on the balance across faction that I don't have much play experience, which is very unfortunate, since I won't have the necessary knowledge for a cross wide balance, but really the VSD at 22 supply it doesn't even feature in the I would consider using case, its an average ship with a high cost

 

- lower the cost of the Hapan, maybe 14 supply should be fine or even 12

The Hapan is a unique craft. Unlike every other ship in the game, it's DPS is all directed against a single target. It's really powerful in the right hands, and isn't meant to be used in large numbers.

Well the idea wasn't to use in large numbers, but to be actually worth considering, I didn't know that it was supposed to be a high single target damage dealer, even with the tests that didn't become clear.

 

 

- lower the cost of the Majestic, 16 or 14 supply

- lower the cost of the bothan, I know its a heavy hitter, but its not that boost worth, specially when you have the mon cal H carrier, around 30 should do it

Both of these are things I should look at, agreed.

 

great, glad to hear

 

- combine the endurance with the nebula, make it a real carrier as the endurance, transform it as a real cap

I don't like this idea. Perhaps instead, remove planet bombing from the Endurance and make it a frigate entity? Actually I'll do that.

 

well the supply is already balanced, it should be a good move.

 

I proposed to combine both, because I didn't see the need to actually have that many caps for the NR, the nebula is a meh cap, not good not entirely bad with a high cost, the good thing is that it doesn't need research like the mon cal H, although it loses badly to that ship

 

- would vouch for the mon cal H carrier be made a real cap and raise the cost of it a little (as a bonus for being a real cap)

There's no real need to make it a command, as it has no abilities, and plus I'm afraid doing so would make it even more powerful, which is the last thing I want to do.

 

I really had mixed feelings when I posted that due to the possibility of being too overpowering its damage and its shields make it a real contender after the raise in supply for rejuvenator and mc90, but I don't know I still feel that its not what it could be, there is some nagging feeling telling me that that ship could be more

 

 

the idea is to have the player chose less the proficient and bring a more mixed fleet to the fold, one that isn't so cannon fodder

Owing to what you mentioned earlier, the Prof will have it's cost increased by 15%.

 

good, I think if you really add that, and lower the other cap ships it should give the player more choices in the game

 

 

maybe this is a contribution that I can offer, I will post some that are in real need of replacement and if you explain to me what they do I will post the text that are supposed to be replaced

This would be great. I would appreciate the help for this a lot.

 

shall be done, but I have a very constrained time, I work, do side jobs and go to uni

 

btw one thing I noticed, the 1088 is giving me a lot of mini dumps, which didn't happen on the 095

Make sure AA is off, though Rebellion lately has been seemingly unstable, it's not just you. Make sure you got a paging file on for the partition Sins is on, or move Sins to a partition with a paging file.

 

 

unfortunately all is done, it was sudden, I had some 30 min free today and decided to play 4 mini dumps, and with the loading times, I lost all those 30 min

 

2 Executors from 2 allied AIs, or one single AI?

 

it was a 1v2 map, both were empire and allied and in total that battle had 4 executors, so each had 2 executors, sorry the text was terrible after I reread it.

 

One thing, is there a particular reason why only command caps work as real caps? I noticed that each faction has 2 caps that are real caps, i.e. they can upgrade their abilities and enjoy the raise in levels.

 

I know that you mentioned that it was partly done due to how the AI manages planet bombing in frigates and that there is no limit to cap

 

I don't know I think that there are some caps that deserve a better destiny of expensive cannon fodder, that share the xp from my caps that need it, that are harder to replace, take longer to build.

 

Maybe by just allowing the abilities that they have to be levelled that could solve things, although I do feel that some caps in the faction rooster could be made real caps.

 

After all in Sins we had caps that took advantage of different areas, though I will be sincere that I didn't saw the need to use them all, actually I used 3-4 depending on the faction, even with rebellion. I know that its a simplistic approach the one that Sins used, basically its a mixed fleet for rock paper scissors, which in reality is inevitably true, we do use that system for fleet deployment today

[karamazovmm]

arranging the empire tech three

 

currently aside the modifications that I indicated for balance purposes I think its very pleasing, just played a game against a hard AI empire VS NR and had no problems, it was too easy though, without giving massive initial income the AI becomes very lethargic, though those urban planets have very heavy pirate forces, on the other hand it guarantees a good fleet for the enemy and myself

 

mini dump was fixed by removing completely the game and steam

[karamazovmm]

This is the Tech Three that needs some clarification and correction, I avoided double entries, if its needed I will post

 

 

Empire

 

Military Tech Three

 

• Ion Accu-Accelerators - too many damage increase text
   
  Synthetic Coolant - too many rate of fire increase text
   
  Tibanna Gas Refinement - too many damage increase text
   
  Heavy Quad Turbolasers - unlocks what?
   
  Fire-Linked Turbolasers - too many damage increase text
   
  Precision Calibration - too many damage increase text
   
  Coumpound Beam Alignment - too many damage increase text
   
  Shield Penatrators - too many shield negation increase text
   
  Shaped Proton Charge - too many damage increase text
   
  Heavy munitions - unlocks what?
   
  Counter Measure Analysis - too many range increase text
   
  Slave Circuitry - What does it do? improves fighters? certain frigates? fleet wide?
   
  Advanced Fighter Designs - unlocks heavy constructor?

 

Defense Tech Three

 

• Repair Platform - Fleet Maintenance Platform Unlock text doubled
   
  Proximity Mines - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Ion Defense Platforms - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Golan III Platform - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Auxiliary Government - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Deep Space Trade - is hidden behind an arrow
   
  Superconductor Plating - Unlocks what?
   
  Hangar Defense - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Tactical Damage increase - too many damage increase text

 

Civilian Tech Three

 

• Orbital Refinement - Unlock text multiplied
   
  BoSS Customs Registry - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Insulated Arcology Type I - is hidden behind an arrow
   
  Iron Will of the Empire - what does it do?
   
  Shield Arcology Type II - unlocks heavy constructor?
   
  Shield Governance Edict - unlocks heavy constructor?
   
  Interstellar Networks - Unlock text multiplied
   
  Development Mandate - unlocks heavy constructor?
   
  Favored Client Discount - is hidden behind an arrow
  

 

NR

 

 

Military Tech Three

 

Mag Pulse Warheads - benefits to what?

 

Civilian Tech Three

 

Hit and Run Tactics - Boost by how much?

 

 

CIS

 

Military Tech Three

 

• Discord Missiles - unlocks heavy constructor
   
  Self-Destruct Protocols - double unlock text
  

 

Republic

 

 

Military Tech Three

 

• Advanced ECM - unlocks heavy constructor and what does it do?
   
  Fire-Linked Turbolasers - connects directly to Efficient Heat Dissipation, however you need to research all the others in front that got blocked by the extended arrow
  

Defense Tech Three

 

• Clone Cadet Corps - is such an important tech that unlocks what? and its being hidden by Reinforced Durasteel Plating that doesnt appear completely on the screen (the name only)

 

Vong

 

Military Tech Three

 

• It needs to be completely renamed, and we dont have sources as far as Im aware
  

Civilian Tech Three

 

• It needs to be almost completely renamed, and we dont have sources as far as Im aware
  

Defense Tech Three

 

• It needs to be almost completely renamed, and we dont have sources as far as Im aware

 

Shameless triple post

[Lavo]

Sorry for the late reply.

 

I don't know I think that there are some caps that deserve a better destiny of expensive cannon fodder, that share the xp from my caps that need it, that are harder to replace, take longer to build.

Even if they cannot level their abilities, they sill do get stat bonuses from leveling up. I'll be changing it so that they get equal benefits, sans ability leveling of course.

 

This is the Tech Three that needs some clarification and correction, I avoided double entries, if its needed I will post

Unfortunately, all the "too many damage/rate of fire/shield negation/range increase text" bits cannot be changed as that's due to how Sins itself renders text descriptions. All the Heavy Constructor unlocks refer to certain AI-only star base constructors that act as motivation for the AI to research those items. Seeing as how this has had a very positive impact on AI behavior, this will not be removed. The "hidden behind an arrow" bits are for the most part due to a combination of having no more room on that column, and due to how Sins weirdly prioritizes research arrows, which I'm not familiar with in all truth. By "Unlock text multiplied", can you clarify what you mean by this?

 

Mag Pulse Warheads - benefits to what?

Unlocks ability of the same name, editing desc.

 

Advanced ECM - unlocks heavy constructor and what does it do?

Clone Cadet Corps - is such an important tech that unlocks what? and its being hidden by Reinforced Durasteel Plating that doesnt appear completely on the screen (the name only)

Unlocks various abilities, mentioned in each abilities' own descriptions. Will change "clone improvements" to "clone abilities". Adv ECM edited.

 

Hit and Run Tactics - Boost by how much?

Will add this to the description.

 

Heavy Quad Turbolasers - unlocks what?

Heavy munitions - unlocks what?

For the former, pretty much any missile ability that requires research. For both, each is mentioned in an abilities' description if required.

 

Slave Circuitry - What does it do? improves fighters? certain frigates? fleet wide?

Unlocks ability of the same name; I'll be removing the research reqs shortly.

 

Superconductor Plating - Unlocks what?

I hate to be a smart-ass, but did you even read it's description? It does say: "increases the survivability of tactical platforms". Can't get any more clear than that. I'll change platforms to turrets, as that's more correct, but that's about all I can do.

 

Iron Will of the Empire - what does it do?

It's very clearly outlined in the text desc. Really not sure what you aren't seeing here. =/

 

With regards to the Vong trees, I do agree, though I will note that they make use of many "common" non-Vong techs. Research, in particular for this unique faction, is a WIP.

[karamazovmm]

Sometimes I get things that are in the description as they are now. But I do have knowledge of the SW universe, I was thinking about those that don't have it, which is to make it accessible to everyone.

 

Iron will of the empire doesn't specify the duration or the percentage affected

 

by unlock text multiplied I meant that there are several unlocks attributed to the research, i.e. several unlocks heavy constructor. Given that you explained the purpose and the improvement of the ai there isn't much that can be done

 

When you are satisfied with the vong tech three, I can try to provide the names for some of the tech, or we can just make somethings up (names), since in the Vong arc there isn't much discussion about the tech of the ships themselves, just that they are organic, actually outside the dovin basals there isn't much discussion about vong tech at all

 

Im glad that you are going to change the caps levelling upgrades, one idea can you lower the levelling up xp points needed for those frigates that are caps?

 

Im going to do some tests, all factions included except the vong to see what can be done in terms of balance.

 

My thinking behind the balance is going to be most advanced technologically faction needs to have higher cost ships, aka smaller fleets, thus the reverse is true for the opposite

 

Most tech faction

 

NR

Empire

Alliance

CIS and Republic

 

This is constructed based on the fact that we have units from the Darth Caedus arc in the NR, even during the Vong it was clear that the NR had the best ships.

 

Empire had, non arguably, the best equipment, save the fighters compared to the alliance

 

CIS and republic are on the same level technologically but behind considerably compared to the NR

 

I pretty much take that this is how things are balanced now, but for me, apart from the vong there isn't much work that needs to be done, models are good, we have variety of ships and the tech threes are fairly solid. So balance as I take is what needs to be done

 

I will wait for your comment on this, those tests that I want to do, involve a lot of work:

 

individual units worth

 

balance of the units across the faction, balance of the units across factions and their analogs

 

fleet composition problems (inevitably things need to be balanced differently if you are fighting someone that is as fighter based as the republic to the NR that is cap based)

 

balance of abilities

 

balance of costs

 

all I did preliminarily were things like fights based on their worth (specific focus on supply cost) and that led to fleets that aren't actually varied as I posted before

 

I know before hand that there will be some units that aren't worth at all, as in all the strategy games I played (I basically only play this genre), there will be those units that even as cannon fodder aren't worth their place. But its good for variety on its own sake. Thus Im thinking of some core units that will always form a fleet (command caps as a example) and the support that they need to get the job done, because this isn't starcraft that you can build tons of zerglings and win the game

[Lavo]

Iron will of the empire doesn't specify the duration or the percentage affected

Tech has since been changed; is now mentioned.

 

When you are satisfied with the vong tech three, I can try to provide the names for some of the tech, or we can just make somethings up (names), since in the Vong arc there isn't much discussion about the tech of the ships themselves, just that they are organic, actually outside the dovin basals there isn't much discussion about vong tech at all

Sounds good!

 

Im glad that you are going to change the caps levelling upgrades, one idea can you lower the levelling up xp points needed for those frigates that are caps?

Impossible sadly. If I could I would make a new capital ship entity type, one that has AI be like a capital ship but doesn't level up (aka. frigate entity with cap ship behavior).

 

My thinking behind the balance is going to be most advanced technologically faction needs to have higher cost ships, aka smaller fleets, thus the reverse is true for the opposite

Good luck with the testing. I do note however, that this is primarily reflected in the factions' ship rosters themselves; NR has the best high tier ships period. The Empire comes in second. Third place however is a toss up between the Alliance and the CIS, due to the Lucrehulk BB, which is an ISD-tier ship and the CIS' Buzz Droids. As otherwise the Alliance has better offense thanks to the sheer firepower of the Dauntless beating out everything else the CIS has sans supers and the aforementioned Lucrehulk, and the damage tanking of the MC80 variants. Republic is currently in dead last due to a missing link, which I will be putting in tonight, something which I am certain will have quite a change.

 

I will wait for your comment on this, those tests that I want to do, involve a lot of work

Sounds like a good plan, though just wait for me to finish tonight's updates first, as they will have some notable balance changes.

[karamazovmm]

Good luck with the testing. I do note however, that this is primarily reflected in the factions' ship rosters themselves; NR has the best high tier ships period. The Empire comes in second. Third place however is a toss up between the Alliance and the CIS, due to the Lucrehulk BB, which is an ISD-tier ship and the CIS' Buzz Droids. As otherwise the Alliance has better offense thanks to the sheer firepower of the Dauntless beating out everything else the CIS has sans supers and the aforementioned Lucrehulk, and the damage tanking of the MC80 variants. Republic is currently in dead last due to a missing link, which I will be putting in tonight, something which I am certain will have quite a change.

 

 

Yeah I noticed that, its pretty much reflected on the cost of the ships themselves, given that I don't have much experience with CIS, Vong and republic, can't comment much on the costs of those

 

Sounds like a good plan, though just wait for me to finish tonight's updates first, as they will have some notable balance changes.

 

perfect any last minute changes? Im going to test it out tomorrow

[Lavo]

Admittedly I haven't done all the cost changes yet, though yeah there's def. going to be some big ones.

[karamazovmm]

Admittedly I haven't done all the cost changes yet, though yeah there's def. going to be some big ones.

oh crap... material costs or supply costs? material costs don't affect much my gameplay (admittedly Im not gaming on huge resources anymore, I could field 5 fleets in 30 min, now I can only field 1), supply costs affect a lot more

 

Im wondering the bothan is a good craft, specially if you consider the fighter restore, although in fleet engagements those added fighters are proving to be... well nothing, even on 1vs1 engagements. The real good thing about the bothan is that you have a early heavy hitter, at least earlier than the mon cal AFC H, and clearly despite the fighter advantage, the AFC H will destroy the bothan. The question is why to give that carrier ability?

 

I don't remember the endurance ability but raise the cost of it to 33 supply, give the carrier ability to it

 

Give the bothan minor boost ability, they are crafty and have spies everywhere, know the weaknesses of the enemies

 

give the majestic the cluster missile ability back or remove the heavy bombardment of structures ability from it to give the cluster missile to it

 

as you can see Im toying with fleet compositions to avoid proficient spam, which is still the best thing to do

 

Current limit per NR fleet is 560 supply, which is a big fleet and can operate on its own, if its a heavy battle 2 of those can deal with it

 

 

Currently tested, NR VS

NR

Empire

Republic

 

The nebula is a big dead weight, much like the ISD2 frigate, not enough benefit for a too high cost

[Lavo]

oh crap... material costs or supply costs?

Bit of both. Smaller stuff (ex. Strike Cruiser, Dreadnaught) will get a material cost cut, plan to adjust both for the Bothan AC, Mon Cal AFC.

 

I don't remember the endurance ability but raise the cost of it to 33 supply, give the carrier ability to it

I'm hesitant to do that as it would make the thing extremely OP. Larger ships that have Full Squadrons (Lucrehulk BB, Cluster Ship) need to get to level 5 to use it. The other ships that have it (Escort Carrier, Liberator) don't have the health that the Endurance does. Though I do plan to remove the ability from the BAC and lower it's costs, which should make it useful vs. the Mon Cal AFC (more firepower and fighters in exchange for less tanking).

 

give the majestic the cluster missile ability back or remove the heavy bombardment of structures ability from it to give the cluster missile to it

Majestic is supposed to have both the anti-structure ability and the missile salvo ability; I'll look into this.

[karamazovmm]

oh crap... material costs or supply costs?

Bit of both. Smaller stuff (ex. Strike Cruiser, Dreadnaught) will get a material cost cut, plan to adjust both for the Bothan AC, Mon Cal AFC.

 

by how much on each? I still think the bothan AC with its ability removed should cost less, around 30 and the AFC can also cost 40

 

I don't remember the endurance ability but raise the cost of it to 33 supply, give the carrier ability to it

I'm hesitant to do that as it would make the thing extremely OP. Larger ships that have Full Squadrons (Lucrehulk BB, Cluster Ship) need to get to level 5 to use it. The other ships that have it (Escort Carrier, Liberator) don't have the health that the Endurance does. Though I do plan to remove the ability from the BAC and lower it's costs, which should make it useful vs. the Mon Cal AFC (more firepower and fighters in exchange for less tanking).

 

My thinking is to:

 

bothan AC currently is great it rivals heavier and more expensive ships

 

the endurance, doesn't have neither the endurance nor the firepower, I would lower the firepower and the endurance a bit and give it that ability to summon fighters, or not just raise the cost in terms of supply and materials, I really think around 33 is just about right and I bet that as currently stands the bothan AC will beat it

 

fighters as currently stand don't make a really big difference on fights, I try to maintain a 50/50 ratio of fighters and bombers, will experiment on going 75/25 fighters vs bombers. Simply put they don't last long enough in a battle, they don't replenish fast enough, only really massed fighters/bombers can do damage, that means 30+ in an active fight that number goes higher to at least 50 squadrons, given that most of them only have 1-3 fighters active and they are all trying to kill each other or foolishly trying to take on a larger vessel, put at least 5 anti fighter frigates and that number grows quite a lot

 

in essence I agree with the thinking of fighters are not that powerful and compare to frigates they are not only flimsy, they are ridiculously weak as they should be, thus the ability to actually have some fighting force is appreciated, but it won't break the balance. but that is something that can only be attested with testing

 

give the majestic the cluster missile ability back or remove the heavy bombardment of structures ability from it to give the cluster missile to it

Majestic is supposed to have both the anti-structure ability and the missile salvo ability; I'll look into this.

 

its not working, it does have the slot, when you go to level up you can select it, but it won't appear as an ability that I can click and engage, from what I saw it doesn't trigger automatically either, unless the animation screw up somehow

 

I really think we have to modify the nebula, currently it costs a ton and in terms of benefits it doesn't provide any, I will test a 1vs1 against the AFC, it will probably be a very tough fight, and if it loses by a bit, which I think it will, it won't provide anything to the fleet rooster as it is, its more expensive for just a little bit of endurance? for that supply I can have more soaking done with frigates, or more firepower with the majestic

[Lavo]

by how much on each? I still think the bothan AC with its ability removed should cost less, around 30 and the AFC can also cost 40

BAC will be 32 supply. MonCal AFC will actually be getting it's costs increased, not decreased (it currently sits at 43 supply).

 

the endurance, doesn't have neither the endurance nor the firepower, I would lower the firepower and the endurance a bit and give it that ability to summon fighters, or not just raise the cost in terms of supply and materials, I really think around 33 is just about right and I bet that as currently stands the bothan AC will beat it

To be truthful, part of the reason I want to remove Full Squadrons from the BAC is so that the NR won't have a ship with Full Squadrons, as a balancing move so that the NR doesn't have an easy way to speed up ship production. With the exception of the Empire, no single faction can easily get a Full Squadrons ship in the very early game.

 

*Stuff about fighters*

Yeah, fighters have been notoriously hard to balance. Bombers are fine; they're faster then frigates, have excellent alpha strike ability, and have good modifiers against everything but frigates and other such light targets. Your point about fighter regeneration rates is a good one; I think I'll lower that rate for fighters a good deal.

 

its not working, it does have the slot, when you go to level up you can select it, but it won't appear as an ability that I can click and engage, from what I saw it doesn't trigger automatically either, unless the animation screw up somehow

The ability requires research. Could it be you didn't get Heavy Munitions yet?

 

I really think we have to modify the nebula, currently it costs a ton and in terms of benefits it doesn't provide any, I will test a 1vs1 against the AFC, it will probably be a very tough fight, and if it loses by a bit, which I think it will, it won't provide anything to the fleet rooster as it is, its more expensive for just a little bit of endurance?

That's a bad comparison. Of course the Nebula will lose 1v1, it's firepower is spread over three targets rather than two like the AFC. Put it in a multi-ship engagement and the Nebula will have slightly more firepower than the AFC. However you are missing one key point in all of this, the AFC requires research while the Nebula does not. This means that the Nebula is avaliable for early and mid game, while the AFC only becomes avaliable during the mid or late game. That alone makes the Nebula worthwhile and more than simple cannon fodder. Additionally, the AFC cannot bomb planets, while the Nebula and BAC can.