Beta Observations and Thoughts

[Lavo]

Nova, you should check your PMs.

[NovaCameron]

Oh come on I was asleep. Found your issue. I forgot to add constructors to the roids.... My bad. lol Fixed it. MaxModuleConstructorCount should be 0;1 for civ and 1;2 for tac. AsteroidShipyard is fine but asteroid, comet, and Aasteroidlavo need it fixed. (would give you the files but I've messed with the meshes and everything so it wouldn't be pretty adding it in.)

 

Oh and bump down the penalty on the roids and moons from -5 to -3. I think that is better.

[Lavo]

Ahhhh, that would do it. Fixed.

 

As for the underdevelopment tax, should all planets have it reduced from -5 to -3 (assuming they have such a penalty) or just the asteroids and moons? I'm guessing the former, as it wouldn't make sense otherwise, but I want to check with you anyways.

[NovaCameron]

No just the moons and roids. I realize I messed up on the application of that. It was done on tech level, but I think it's better if it is done by colonization lvl. -1,-2,-3,NA,-5 And it seems some had been missed by my previous slashing of it.... -6 I'm going through it again now and tweaking them to their new numbers. So most will have a much easier number to start with (Low Terran was -4, now -1), some will now lose it when upgraded or at least minimized (Ice from -3 to -1 now).

[soul0reaper]

Which planets have too little tac slots? There is a reason for that. I want them hard to defend. I want them weak. Since these are usually high resource planets. And No for fully upgrading planets because they are priced for what you get. You think you have too many credits now? If you upgrade a few tech 4 planets all the way you will have ZERO money issues. (not to mention 120k HP) I want you to think about upgrades. Decide which ones you want and can afford. I do not want vanilla stuff where you que up all the upgrades and leave. And yes I know I'm not making it easy for you....

I don't mind paying for high price updates. It just makes little sense to not be able to remove underdevelopment tax. I have no problem with the cost of upgrades. Its when you can't even develop some of the plants thats strange.

The problem with putting sometimes a 6 tactic slot limit is that you might as well not put them there for some planets... no ones going to waste credits on filling it up for a mediocre defense. least with the normal sins slots they slowed fleets down a bit. Neither of these 2 changes make sense canonically either. high value planets are usually bristling with defenses and I'm sure if you throw in enough credits you can upgrade any planet

[NovaCameron]

Well you aren't 'building' anything there on the planet. (Not really anything lasting. Bringing it into the fold so to speak.) You are merely occupying the planet. You are using the local infrastructure for most everything. There is not enough population on most planets to maintain an adequate tax income. It's not an underdevelopment tax penalty. (not really) But a game mechanism to show that planet CANNOT under current conditions (maybe in a few decades or centuries or millenia) provide enough income to off set the cost of providing services that the government has to provide by law. (aka you.) There is simply not enough people. And who says that the planet is worth anything to anyone? It's a backwater world with ZERO importance. Most planets don't get developed. It is not strange but very common. And who says the local government is not forbidding you for building there? Or your advisory console gives you strange looks when you want to fortify a worthless planet with no value. Maybe it will rebel if you come barging in and order every little thing about that planet's affairs. You do have a allegiance that comes into play.

 

If it's mediocre to you don't build it. I'm merely giving you the option of building some.

 

And yes the defenses and building need lots of love but I'm busy with planets still. And Lavo's messing with ships.

[Lavo]

I don't mind paying for high price updates. It just makes little sense to not be able to remove underdevelopment tax. I have no problem with the cost of upgrades. Its when you can't even develop some of the plants thats strange.

The problem with putting sometimes a 6 tactic slot limit is that you might as well not put them there for some planets... no ones going to waste credits on filling it up for a mediocre defense. least with the normal sins slots they slowed fleets down a bit. Neither of these 2 changes make sense canonically either. high value planets are usually bristling with defenses and I'm sure if you throw in enough credits you can upgrade any planet

As mentioned in the star bases thread, eventually ALL planets will allow for 4 stations per planet. This will effectively make any planet defensible, as 4 fully upgraded stations is equivalent to 4 mid-high level capital ships. At that point it is the tactical slots that will determine whether a planet has medium/average or heavy-very heavy defenses. Until this is implemented, you're kinda going to have to live with having somewhat indefensible planets. =/ Though I do promise this will be done by early May, as I'll have the program I need to get this written by then regardless of SoGE, as it's for school. :v

[NovaCameron]

I can do it for you quickly.... It'll be in the ENT and DIP releases of the SOGE planets.

[Lavo]

I can do it for you quickly.... It'll be in the ENT and DIP releases of the SOGE planets.

If you want to take the time for it, go for it. Though if it will take awhile to modify all of those files, don't waste your time.

[NovaCameron]

lol It won't. Take like 2 seconds.

 

Oh do you want the clouds to have 8? or just all have 4?

[Lavo]

lol It won't. Take like 2 seconds.

 

Oh do you want the clouds to have 8? or just all have 4?

All the non-colonizables should remain at 1. You sir are epic.

[Heero_Miiyamoto]

After posting this in the update thread, I quickly realized that I shouldn't have. My bad entirely ^_^'

 

So, to reiterate what I said there...

 

I've updated my version of the mod using SVN, yet I don't seem to have access to the new planets and the features that come with what NovaCameron provided. Also, just to be sure whether or not that's the only issue, have the Y-Wings been turned into actual Y-Wings yet? If so, then that's yet another thing I don't seem to have access to.

 

I would appreciate any kind of help resolving this issue.

[Lavo]

I've updated my version of the mod using SVN, yet I don't seem to have access to the new planets and the features that come with what NovaCameron provided. Also, just to be sure whether or not that's the only issue, have the Y-Wings been turned into actual Y-Wings yet? If so, then that's yet another thing I don't seem to have access to.

 

I would appreciate any kind of help resolving this issue.

What maps have you been playing? Only the Random maps and the custom maps made by myself and Nova feature the new planets. If you are playing any of Ironclad's maps, they lack anything other than the stock planets. The Y-Wings have not been changed into actual Y-Wings yet as there are no model for them yet.

[Heero_Miiyamoto]

I actually only play on random maps, as they tend to be a bit more challenging do to their natural randomness, and it's normally the random-large(multi) and random-huge(multi) that I play on because I also prefer games that could potentially last for days.

[NovaCameron]

Eh those SHOULD be fine.

[Heero_Miiyamoto]

That's just it, they aren't. Every time I play them the only planets I come across are vanilla (ice, Volcanic, terran, dessert, etc.) And while it is amuzing to find an icy Felucia, a fiery Kashyyk, or a sun named Hoth...I'd still like to have a bit more variety to my planets.

[Lavo]

That's just it, they aren't. Every time I play them the only planets I come across are vanilla (ice, Volcanic, terran, dessert, etc.) And while it is amuzing to find an icy Felucia, a fiery Kashyyk, or a sun named Hoth...I'd still like to have a bit more variety to my planets.

Can you possibly upload your GalaxyScenarioDef somewhere (it's in your GameInfo folder)? If you do that, I can check if you truly have updated to the planets mod release.

[Heero_Miiyamoto]

Could I maybe e-mail it to you or something? I surprise even myself when it comes with how little I know about...er....how to do things like that ^_^'

(Worst. Nerd. Ever.)

[Lavo]

Could I maybe e-mail it to you or something? I surprise even myself when it comes with how little I know about...er....how to do things like that ^_^'

(Worst. Nerd. Ever.)

Email's meeper_1@hotmail.com. I would, before this, go over to your "Mods-Entrenchment v1.051" folder, right-click whatever folder SoGE is in, and hit "SVN Update". This will force the SVN to search for updates. If something turns up and it updates, run a random map and then hit surrender and then keep playing (as then you will be able to see all the planets), and see if there are any of the new ones. If so, your problem is fixed.

[Saituros]

Been away for a couple weeks due to college, but I did have some time to check out things last night. Main points noted was the interdict ability, worked excellently, and actually allows me some ability to trap attacking fleets that try to hit and run. Range seems about right as well, a radius that has range but doesn't take over half the planets gravity well itself. On an off side, I do wish the NR AI would spam something other then frigates so I could have a challenging battle, 12 ISD class II star destroyers an interdictor, and a few broadside cruisers are pretty much laying waste to anything I run into.

My SSD also seems able to single handedly fight the entire Vong AI as well haha. Not sure if this is due to balancing still being needed for those two newer races, or if the AI is just stuck in a rut of producing easy to kill ships.

[Lavo]

My SSD also seems able to single handedly fight the entire Vong AI as well haha. Not sure if this is due to balancing still being needed for those two newer races, or if the AI is just stuck in a rut of producing easy to kill ships.

Yeah, the Vong need serious reworking. They have excellent, hard to kill, and underpriced ships, but they all cost an absurd amount of supply. I've noticed the SSD being a sword that cuts through the Vong like butter myself. Unlike all the other races, I have yet to see a Vong supercap built by the AI. I also appreciate feedback on the Gravity Well Generator ability, it's something I cooked up recently, and wasn't sure if the range was good or not.

 

The NR's frigate spam is really just the AI loving cheap missile frigates with abilities... I have no idea why it does this, but I've noted this also occurs with the Alliance AI (both have the same frigates).

[Saituros]

I noted the gravity well generators at the top of the reply, range seemed good, enough to have a tactical effect. Makes it a lot easier to trap those fast ships if they decide to bolt out of my defense range, as well as trap ships if I attack a planet containing a smaller fleet. Vong definitely seem vulnerable to the SSD class. NR I'll have to play as and see how they fare against Empire, since the AI doesn't want to help. Once I can get some time I'll probably run a quick scenario as NR and if time allows Vong.

[Lavo]

I noted the gravity well generators at the top of the reply, range seemed good, enough to have a tactical effect. Makes it a lot easier to trap those fast ships if they decide to bolt out of my defense range, as well as trap ships if I attack a planet containing a smaller fleet. Vong definitely seem vulnerable to the SSD class. NR I'll have to play as and see how they fare against Empire, since the AI doesn't want to help. Once I can get some time I'll probably run a quick scenario as NR and if time allows Vong.

The NR, when they don't frigate spam, are a very powerful faction. Unlike the other factions, the NR doesn't have an inexpensive/low health cruiser, so everything the AI makes is good regardless.

 

The Vong I can already tell you are extremely... Weird. Their ships have essentially been unchanged for years, with the exception of their secondary guns being changed from DamageType CAPITALSHIP to ANTIMEDIUM, as a balancing bit, and due to changes I will make in the future. They are the next on the list to be fixed up... In the WIP files I have their weapon classes and projectile art/models have all been fixed, though adding them in as is would make them pretty OP, even moreso than before.

[Saituros]

Does the AI just randomly decide whether to frigate spam or not?

The Vong definitely are an interesting class to try and balance, when you take into account the advantages they're given in the novels (dovin bassals that suck in incoming lasers/missiles, yammosks that give amazingly efficient coordination, cannons that do damage even after hitting the target, and the grutchins that eat through metal) In a way based on the novels they're meant to be OP as long as they keep a yammosk advantage, its when they lose it or it becomes jammed that the Vong become much weaker against NR and Imperial attacks.

[Lavo]

Does the AI just randomly decide whether to frigate spam or not?

The Vong definitely are an interesting class to try and balance, when you take into account the advantages they're given in the novels (dovin bassals that suck in incoming lasers/missiles, yammosks that give amazingly efficient coordination, cannons that do damage even after hitting the target, and the grutchins that eat through metal) In a way based on the novels they're meant to be OP as long as they keep a yammosk advantage, its when they lose it or it becomes jammed that the Vong become much weaker against NR and Imperial attacks.

There really isn't an equivalent to the yammosk in Sins, except possibly fleet coordination, aka. boost, abilities, and those aren't interruptable. The dovin bassals can, and are, taken into account via high shield mitigation. And yes, I do know they're supposed to be extremely powerful, and they will be, it's more that their current state is rather broken.