RR - update - balance ship costs

[Khanti]

As I said in other topic I try to make s little update for RR. Now let's do some balancing work with costs of ships.

 

COSTS OF SHIPS:

I have collected it from different resources. I plan to use it as it is: 145 mln credits for ISD2 is 145 resources needed for building it.

145 mln is 145.000.000 (I know US people have different names for millions).

I want epic battles like Endor, so i plan to cut maintenance costs. I used maintenance as 25% of production cost.

This will allow for many more ships/troops in battle theatre.

 

 

Cost in credits, brackets are for those numbers I put myself, not from any sources, just per analogy.

Construction Cost is mostly credits cost, with exceptions to little ships when it is adjusted due to balance or logical reasons.

Maintenance Cost is mostly 25% of construction cost, with exceptions of big ships when it is 15% (due to balance or logical reasons)

All rounded up.

 

 

SHIP / CREDITS / SUGGESTED COST / SUGGESTED MAINTENANCE

 

Thrawn:

1. ISD2 145 mln - 145/37

2. SSD Executor 1.143 mln - 1143/172 (15%)

3. ?? Eclipse/Death Star [3.000 mln] - 3000/450 (15%)

4. ?? Strike Cruiser [34 mln] - 34/9

5. ATR 1 mln - 1/1 (adjusted)

6. Star Galeon 17.5 mln (18 mln) - 18/5

7. IE Carrier 9.7 mln (10 mln) - 10/3

8. Lancer 4.7 (5 mln) - 5/2

9. Interdictor 52 mln - 52/13

10. ?? Enforcer [14 mln] - 14/4

11. ?? Allegiance [202 mln] - 202/51

12. Star Hauler 2.5 mln (3 mln) - 3/1

13. Sys. Patrol Craft 3.3 mln (3 mln) - 3/1

14. Dreadnought 35 mln - 35/9

15. Nebulon 14.5 mln (15 mln) - 15/4

16. Carrack 19 mln - 19/5

17. ISD1 135 mln - 135/34

18. VSD 57 mln - 54/15

19. Golan III 39 mln 39/10

20. Corellian Corvette 3.5 mln (4 mln) - 4/1

 

NR:

1. Home One 450 mln - 450/68 (15%)

2. MC 80b 85 mln - 85/22

3. MC 80a 75 mln - 75/19

4. MC 40a 25 mln - 25/7

5. MC 90 131 mln - 131/33

6. Assault Frigate 41 mln - 41/11

7. ?? Quasar Carrier [5 mln] - 5/2

8. ?? Bulk Cruiser [21 mln] - 21/6

9. ?? Peregrine [45 mln] - 45/12

10. Corellian Gunship 4.8 mln (5 mln) - 5/2

11. Star Hauler 2.5 mln (3 mln) - 3/1

12. Sys. Patrol Craft 3.3 mln (3 mln) - 3/1

13. Dreadnought 35 mln - 35/9

14. Nebulon 14.5 mln (15 mln) - 15/4

15. Carrack 19 mln - 19/5

16. ISD1 135 mln - 135/34

17. VSD 57 mln - 54/15

18. Golan III 39 mln - 39/10

19. Corellian Corvette 3.5 mln (4 mln) 4/1

 

This is not my dream list, as some ships are not included, others are useless, but it's taken from RR as it is.

 

My suggestions:

1. Remove system patrol craft as Cor Corv has the same price and do the same job.

2. Include Modified Cor Corvette for IMP (for removed IPV-1 slot). And allow Cor Corv only for NR.

3. Remove Star Galeon as it is redundant, IMP has Star Hauler anyway (both are IMP ships).

4. Include Gallofree Medium Transport for NR for removed Star Galeon. And allow Star Hauler only for IMP.

5. Remove Golan III as AI don't understands zero hyperspace concept at all.

6. Include new combat ship. It could be whatever. Eg hypothetical ISD3 (abilities below).

 

 

Thoughts below are not from RR. Just my two cents.

 

I would prefer ISD3 as "battle line" version of Star Destroyer. Both ISD1 and ISD2 are more like "galleons" from XVI century carrying all that troops/prefabricated bases/AT-AT and tons of crewmen. I would prefer more combat oriented ship like Man-of-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galleon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-of-war

 

The man-of-war was developed in England in the mid-16th century. It derived from the carrack ship design, which ultimately derived from the caravel. The caravel was a type of ship invented for trading and transporting goods to colonies and settlements. In the late 15th century, Spain adapted the caravel and invented a new ship, the galleon. In the early 16th century, England created a smaller galleon which they called the carrack. Henry VIII of England occasionally called it a man-of-war, but Sir John Hawkins developed the legitimate man-of-war. The man-of-war was so successful that Sir Francis Drake created a smaller version he called the frigott or frigate.

 

In terms of Star Wars:

"Imperator III-class Star Destroyer was developed in Galactic Empire during Thrawn reign as Regent. It derived from pre Endor Imperator class ship design, which ultimately derived from the Victory class ship design of Old Republic. Imperator I-class ship design was invented to serve as sole capital ship or flagship of the battle squadron, operate more or less independently and often far from support ships and facilities, being able to invade planets, chase down blockade runners and protect fleets. After the Battle of Endor imperial officers realised that having universal ship like transporter-battleship-fighter carrier is pointless during heavy space engagements. A few years later Grand Admiral Thrawn ordered designing of pure combat space ship. All transport capacities were removed, ability to conduct ground operations abandoned. Bevel Lemelisk developed the legitimate design of new starships calling "At least I am sure I did it right this time." Imperator III-class Star Destroyer design was so successful that Grand Admiral Thrawn ordered it mass produced as standard imperial combat ship."

 

 

Imperator III-class Star Destroyer is smaller than both Imperator I-class and II-class Star Destroyers. Ship has no rooms for stormtrooper complement nor hangars for ground vehicles. Imperator III-class has enough room for some landing crafts and small troops squad though.

Space that was freed by removing ground troops and equipment was used for increasing starfighter hangars and installing additional guns and back up shield generators. Imperator III-class was built with a heavily reinforced hull, enhanced shield generators and numerous smaller guns mounted around the ship designed as point-defense to destroy incoming missiles and starfighters. This ship have the same number of turbolaser batteries as Imperator II-class, but most of 525 guns were upgraded to 750 standard.

Imperator III-class Star Destroyer typically carry two standard imperial wings of TIE squadrons, for a total of 144 starfighters (12 squadrons).

Like most other Star Destroyer models, this class is capable of entering atmospheres and supporting ground operations directly by bombardment.

This ship also requires less crew to operate.

 

 

Length: 1,200 meters

Hyperdrive: Class 1

Armament:

* 80 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries of 750 power

* 20 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons of 525 power

* 30 Laser Cannons of 150 power

* 20 Ion Cannons of 300 power

* 10 Tractor Beam Projectors of 450

Complement: 12 squadrons

Shields: 150% of ISD1

Crew: 27,000 (later variants reduced this to 17,000)

Passengers: 1,500

Consumables: 3 years

Cost: 125 mln 125/32

Firepower=60.000+10.500=70.500:22.500=313% (313% firepower of ISD1).

[DarthTex]

My suggestions:

...

5. Remove Golan III as AI don't understands zero hyperspace concept at all.

...

For the Golan to work correctly you have to run the BATTLESTATIONS mod in the download section. RebEd prevents any ship from having a "zero" value for hyperspace, so this mod directly changes the value in the capital ship data file. There are two things to note here: 1) in order for this to work continuously, you have to run the mod everytime after you run RebEd (remember I said RebEd prevents any ship from having a "zero" value for hyperspace, so if it is "zero" it changes it to non-zero); 2) in order to change the hyperspace value to "zero" you have to know what "original" ship was changed to be the Golan (the mod only works with the original ship list; it's hardcoded in, so you might have to experiment a bit). You will see the big X next to all Golans (if done correctly) to signify the hyperdrives are "offline" (the game thinks they are damaged, and are marked as such).

 

There is one problem I have with the BATTLESTATIONS mod, and it depends on the "ship" you are changing out to be the Golan. There is a "field" in the ship data the AI uses to determine ... for lack of a better word, how "tough" that ship is when in battle, and the Golan will behave like whatever ship it replaces. For example: I replaced the Corellian gunship with a Golan, only to have my Golans preferring to shoot at fighters all the time instead of capital ships. So my suggestion would be to replace a "tough" capital ship with the Golan, if you want a "tough" Golan. Unfortunately this field is not able to be changed by RedEd, though if you know your stuff you can change it manually with a hex editor . There was another editor, SWRE?, that someone developed that allowed that data field to be edited. I'm not sure if that editor is in the DOWNLOADS section or not, but ask around if you can't find it. This is something I don't know if others have considered when changing ship "slots" around in the game, because it would make for a terrible game experience if for some reason you swapped a transport spot for a heavy capital ship, and vice-versa ...

 

A little tactic I developed to blockade enemy systems with a Golan is: 1) create a "blockade" fleet of capital ships (anywhere you want); 2) when starting construction of the Golan, put its destintation as the "blockade" fleet; 3) before the Golan arrives to the fleet (after completed construction it's traveling via hyperspace to be delivered, just like a facility), move the fleet to blockade your target system (if you don't move the "blockade" fleet while the Golan is in hyperspace, it will be permanently stuck at the system your fleet is located at!); 4) if any enemy fleet is at the target blockade system, your "blockade" fleet MUST win the battle so the Golan can "catch up" and become permanently parked in orbit. Once this happens you can add as many other Golans or support ships to help defend against possible counter attacks to break the blockade. You'll have to create a "new" fleet from your "blockade" fleet if you want to move off any ships, because the Golan can't leave, ... ever (unless you scrap it, or it's destroyed in a battle).

 

Just my two bits worth

[Khanti]

There is one problem I have with the BATTLESTATIONS mod, and it depends on the "ship" you are changing out to be the Golan. There is a "field" in the ship data the AI uses to determine ... for lack of a better word, how "tough" that ship is when in battle, and the Golan will behave like whatever ship it replaces. For example: I replaced the Corellian gunship with a Golan, only to have my Golans preferring to shoot at fighters all the time instead of capital ships. So my suggestion would be to replace a "tough" capital ship with the Golan, if you want a "tough" Golan. Unfortunately this field is not able to be changed by RedEd, though if you know your stuff you can change it manually with a hex editor . There was another editor, SWRE?, that someone developed that allowed that data field to be edited. I'm not sure if that editor is in the DOWNLOADS section or not, but ask around if you can't find it. This is something I don't know if others have considered when changing ship "slots" around in the game, because it would make for a terrible game experience if for some reason you swapped a transport spot for a heavy capital ship, and vice-versa ...

 

I don't have SWRE. If you have please let me know or post it somewhere I could download it from.

I don't plan to change place of Golans. In RR they are placed where used to be Dauntless cruiser.

 

A little tactic I developed to blockade enemy systems with a Golan is: 1) create a "blockade" fleet of capital ships (anywhere you want); 2) when starting construction of the Golan, put its destination as the "blockade" fleet; 3) before the Golan arrives to the fleet (after completed construction it's traveling via hyperspace to be delivered, just like a facility), move the fleet to blockade your target system (if you don't move the "blockade" fleet while the Golan is in hyperspace, it will be permanently stuck at the system your fleet is located at!); 4) if any enemy fleet is at the target blockade system, your "blockade" fleet MUST win the battle so the Golan can "catch up" and become permanently parked in orbit. Once this happens you can add as many other Golans or support ships to help defend against possible counter attacks to break the blockade. You'll have to create a "new" fleet from your "blockade" fleet if you want to move off any ships, because the Golan can't leave, ... ever (unless you scrap it, or it's destroyed in a battle).

 

That is why I said AI can not handle Golans well. Humans can do tricks, AI can not. It's is fairly easy game for average human after all (AI is too weak) to decrease AI chances in game. I would prefer having cap ship here that AI will utilise in good way.

 

Do people really need/like Golans in Rebellion Reloaded ?

 

PS: Remove Golan III as AI don't understands zero hyperspace concept at all.

AI can build it, set destination and that's all. If AI will wrongly placed them on some remote system, it will stay there indefinitely. AI needs possibility to move its ships to have a chance with human. It builds Golans like crazy freezing its resources.

[Khanti]

I've changed ships costs in my RR test game as described above.

First impression is that now there is A LOT more ships in Galaxy. I was attacked by Imperial fleet at Yavin between day 70 and 90 consisting of 1 SSD, 10 VSD, 1 ISD and few smaller ships.

 

SSD is because Imps got it from start as SSD occupies old Galleon slot.

10 VSD were probably produced in Wayland (I gave Imps 3 advanced shipyards at start).

 

There are tons of corvettes/frigates in fleets. I used them in packs against starfighters. War of blockading planets is very important.

Start configuration on expert level / huge galaxy is some 10-15 ships now.

 

Example of NR starting ships (expert, huge galaxy):

- 4 carriers

- 4 bulk cruisers

- 10 corellian corvettes

- 8 MC40a

 

Example of GE starting ships (expert, huge galaxy):

- 2 carracks

- 1 ISD

- 4 VSD

- 2 dreadnoughts

 

I work on ships firepower now, will post my suggestions soon.