Empire Discussion

[Relentless]

But really the plot devices are a HUGE factor.

 

You don't get what I'm saying, do you?

 

If we want to discuss the events of Star Wars, we actually have to pretend it was real. The debate goes completely insane when people bring in all the "good guys have to win"-stuff and such.

 

The fact is, The Rebels had an immensely small chance of breaking the Empire, but they did it. They did it because they had a plan that had a small chance of succeeding, and luckily for them it did succeed. This is the SW universe, plot devices don't exist.

[Logan Felipe]

You don't get what I'm saying, do you?

 

If we want to discuss the events of Star Wars, we actually have to pretend it was real. The debate goes completely insane when people bring in all the "good guys have to win"-stuff and such.

 

The fact is, The Rebels had an immensely small chance of breaking the Empire, but they did it. They did it because they had a plan that had a small chance of succeeding, and luckily for them it did succeed. This is the SW universe, plot devices don't exist.

Thank you.

 

What he said.

[Controller]

what they said. the rebels won because the emperor was stupid enough to control all his forces with the force so when he died, they started to fight like cadets

[Mikan Cyclone]

IT wasn't stupid, he just overshot his powers.  Look what happened in HTTE.  When Joruus started controlling the fleet, Palleon noticed it had an incredibly greater margin for success.  He noticed everything was going off way too easy, even though it wasn't.  The Emperor believed that his powers were more powerful than they really were, and/or he loved controlling them.  Either way, when they had that linked severed, it was like finally waking up from an incredibly long sleep.  Those people were in complete disarray, most likely because they were in complete shock.  They had been controlled for so long, and then they finally just got out from under it.  Joruus might not put that effect on them because he isn't as powerful as the emperor was.

[Logan Felipe]

IT wasn't stupid, he just overshot his powers.  Look what happened in HTTE.  When Joruus started controlling the fleet, Palleon noticed it had an incredibly greater margin for success.  He noticed everything was going off way too easy, even though it wasn't.   The Emperor believed that his powers were more powerful than they really were, and/or he loved controlling them.  Either way, when they had that linked severed, it was like finally waking up from an incredibly long sleep.  Those people were in complete disarray, most likely because they were in complete shock.  They had been controlled for so long, and then they finally just got out from under it.  Joruus might not put that effect on them because he isn't as powerful as the emperor was.

Exactly.

 

"Your overconfidence is your weakness."

-Luke to Palpatine RotJ

[Guest]

meh, I think that whole thing that Timothy Zahn made up about "the emperor controlling the entire Imperial battle group" is quite lame. You'll notice that before the emperor's death during the battle of endor scenes that in the background there are star destroyers that radomly blow up, not to metion the unexplicable reson as to why the executor's sheilds came down. Nothing in the entire rebel fleet at the time could bring the executor's sheild down even if they were all shooting at once. Dazed or not the endor space battle should have been an easy victory for the empire. Even if you suddenly snapped back into awareness the Imperials where still sitting in top of the line military vessels that even in the hands of some idiot could at least blow up one of the rebel cruisers.

[Controller]

well i guess that depends what sort of idiot were talking about ;D

as for the Executor's shields, one of the rebel fighters blow up the dome thing on top of the ship so maybe that got rid of bridge shields

[Guest]

those domes aren't the shield generator things. And if they were why would the sheild generators not be shielded? and why make the shield generators so weak that a few shots from an A-wing be able to destroy it?

[Controller]

yes i know they are the sensor domes, maybe the bridge shield generator was near or under them.

 

another theory maybe the shields were never taken down, being attack by every rebel ship weakened the Shields enough that an A-wing could take down the sensor domes. which took out the sensors, the guns near the bridge would have used, so they couldn't hit the A-wing which crashed through the bridge

i like that idea better now that i think about it

[Logan Felipe]

yes i know they are the sensor domes, maybe the bridge shield generator was near or under them.

 

another theory maybe the shields were never taken down, being attack by every rebel ship weakened the Shields enough that an A-wing could take down the sensor domes. which took out the sensors, the guns near the bridge would have used, so they couldn't hit the A-wing which crashed through the bridge

i like that idea better now that i think about it

Who says the generator had to be destroyed?

"Their shields are down!"

-Ackbar

Perhaps they were overloaded (shields can only absorb so much, you know).

The Y-wing only took one dome.

 

officer: "Sir, we've just lost our bridge deflector."

Captain of the Executor: "Intensify the forward firepower; I don't want anything getting through!"

 

A-Wing is hit by the barrage of turbolasers, sending it spinning out of control into the bridge.

A-wing pilot: "I'm hit!"

 

Captain: "Shields up-"

officer: "TOO LATE!! AUGGH!"

 

Apparently, the shields were overheated, and had just cooled down enough for use right before the A-wing hit, but they had no time to bring them back on line.

 

Or, they had just managed to reroute power from another generator (let's say the Auxillary one) but they had no time to bring them back on line.

 

The sensors bit would explain why they couldn't shoot the A-wing down once it got close to the bridge.

 

Nothing in the entire rebel fleet at the time could bring the executor's sheild down even if they were all shooting at once.

This is Rogue Squadron we're talking about.

Key structures being destroyed can reduce shield strength.

Ex: 5 generators = 100% efficiency

subtract one generator.

4 generators = 80% efficieny

3=60%

2=40%

Plus constant barrage by Rebel ships

Ackbar: "Concentrate all your firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"

=shield overload

[Mikan Cyclone]

Just one thing wrong with that:

 

Captain: "Shields up-"

 

he doesn't say shields up, he nearly screams, "INTENSIFY FORWARD FIREPOWER!"

[Guest]

This is Rogue Squadron we're talking about.

Key structures being destroyed can reduce shield strength.

 

no matter how much skill they have Rouge Squadron doesn't have the firepower to put even a dent in a SSD. Sure a few proton torpedoes put in the right place at the right time would so some damage, some completely unimportatnt damage but even with the entire rebel fleet pounding on the Executor it would take a long time to blow it up, even if it wasn't shooting back at you. And what were the other star destroyers doing the battle of endor while all the rebel ships where "concentrating fire power on the SSD"? apperntly they were randomly blowing up.

 

When I read the 4th Rogue Squadron book I found it really really lame when rouge squadron, a couple star destroyers, a light cruiser, and about 20 or so freighters equipped with proton torpedoes somehow someway managed to defeat a SSD. The 2 SD's and the light cruiser should have been instantly vaporized one after another. Apparently during this battle the SSD was shooting nothing at all which explains why all of the rebel cap ships somehow managed to survive.

[Logan Felipe]

Just one thing wrong with that:

 

he doesn't say shields up, he nearly screams, "INTENSIFY FORWARD FIREPOWER!"

oops; got it mixed up with TPM. :-\

Still, the point stands that they could have brought down the shields w/out taking out EVERY shield generator...

And come to think of it, each set of deflectors are separate;

C-3P0: "Sir! We've just lost the rear deflectors; one more direct hit on the hindquarters and we're done for!"

After he says this, Han is still able to divert power to the front deflectors; even though the rear deflectors had overloaded.

[admiral boty]

Logan Felipe is totally right. The whole story is unrealistic. I like the empire too as you can all see. I wanna learn to make mods better so I can make more models for the empire.

 

 

*remember* the empire will rise again!!!

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

The Empire is immortal.

 

Rebs and scums could have won a battle but not the war. Loyalty and Fidelity are the basis of the Empire!!!

[admiral boty]

Long Live the Emperor! *Salute*

[Logan Felipe]

The Empire is immortal.

 

Rebs and scums could have won a battle but not the war. Loyalty and Fidelity are the basis of the Empire!!!

 

 

...and yet the EMpire can never completely obtain victory.

The dark side's strength is its weakness; one lone candle is enough to hold it back.

[Controller]

yes but the rebels were all out of candles so they should have lost :P

 

anyway the rebel victory was possible but all the event that would have to happen to make it work would be close to impossible. unless you had the force* on your side

 

 

 

*by Force i mean George Lucas

[Guest]

...and yet the EMpire can never completely obtain victory.

The dark side's strength is its weakness; one lone candle is enough to hold it back.

 

until the candle runs out of wax 

[Logan Felipe]

until the candle runs out of wax 

 

Gah! this is turning into a repeat of earlier pages of this thread!

[admiral boty]

I find you lack of faith disturbing Logan....

[Logan Felipe]

Your overconfidence is your weakness, Admiral...

[Guest]

"Did you tell him that they were the lords chips?"

 

whoops wrong movie

[admiral boty]

Your overconfidence is your weakness, Admiral...

 

"Join me! Don't let yourself destroyed as Obi-Wan did...."  ;D                         

[Logan Felipe]

"Join me! Don't let yourself destroyed as Obi-Wan did...."  ;D                           

"I'll never join you!"