Japanese main strike - 4 hours naval battle

[Cain]

First - I never retreat when I am in defence - plus I don't know were is that damn key and why my forces keep fighting after I exit to strategic.

 

So anyway – I start yesterday to play the full game for the first time – historical – thanks to Lesta and CDV. I sent all my destroyers to found bases in the first minutes of the game so the japs get none. Then I start to spread my fleet in such a way so I will be able to cover most of the new founded bases and I start to send guns ammo and oil. I don’t build any new ship and cancel what we have already in progress – it’s not my style to win with numbers. It’s also very possible that the war will start before I get the chance to deploy them.

 

The most powerful weapon in any sea war is the submarine – so I waited to research new technologies for them before building new ships (except transports). Also I’m extremely upset that I can’t build basic radar even if I have research it. I only see advanced radars for land use in the queue so the japs will attack me before I ever got the chance to build some. Btw the subs in PS are way overpowered because they can fire torpedoes that go forever and they don’t have a longer reload time.

 

I decide to go with the wolf pack strategy and all the bases close to the enemy have 8 of them. I also have 3 fleets near the frontline, 2 in the middle of the ocean (Pearl Harbor included) and a small one at home. I also scrapped my transport convoys for any useful bigger ships. To my horror the I found out there that some useful carriers were doing pleasure cruises with the transports in peace time. It takes me some time to find how to play the game (menus) but since I’ve played the demo it’s easier.

 

So I build up my bases and wait – and wait … I almost felt like reporting a bug that the japs will not attack.

 

And they do finally attack - 2 planes here, 2 cruisers there, nothing fancy, I use my sub fleets as pop-up AA platforms with devastating effects. They attack the nearest new base I’ve made and were I had no BBs. And man … I’ve played 4 hours at least with a slow fps but partially acceptable none the less.

 

Here are the aproximate numbers:

 

United States:

 

2 - Carriers

7 - Cruisers

18 - Destroyers

8 - Submarines

 

(Note* almost all of my cruisers were sunk by only one enemy BB in close combat. He got my by surprise (damn spwan areas) and there was no point in turning I imagined back then - but - Man! those BBs are almost imune at CC fire even at close range - they left it at 65% health before they all sunk and I used their hydroplanes as kamikaze as well - damn boatplanes - they blow up in a dive if they drop too fast but there is no way to slowdown if you try to avoid the AA).

 

Japanese Empire:

 

4 - Carriers

4 - Battleships

10 - Cruisers

21 - Destryers

12 -  Submarines

8 - Transports

 

The japs had two deployment areas and I had only one and it was a hard battle were I had to do the most inventive maneuvers.

 

Example:

 

-Attack in force by air but only after I dealt with one of their main advances lines (2 BBs) so I attacked the second from behind (1 BB, 5 CC and some destroyers). I was somewhere in the middle of them near the island.

-Use always one American fighter bomber plane as kamikaze to take out any capital ship’s AA – they even said banzai. The rest were bombing normally.

-Use my subs as shock troops and AA platforms. 

-I used my destroyers as the last reinforcement I had. I took out with them his remaining wave and all of his subs. I lured them to fire against my initial 2 destroyers (one got away) and the rest of my DDs attacked the enemy subs from left. I also had some fighters remaining that I used for spotting the enemy subs (under water??) and I took them out with depth charges.

 

In the last wave he had 1 remaining BB and DD but still they took out 5 of my CCs (damn) only to be taken out by my last DD fleet torpedoes - I had no bombers left because a large division of his DDs had pop'ed up near my two carriers. I lost one carrier in his 3'rd wave from the left deployment zone and the second on his 4 'th wave. Good thing that 2 of my CCs were stuck near the carriers and fotgoten in the heat of the battle – so I was able to make good use of their fire power. Btw his heavy ships were coming from the right near the island while most of his carriers and DDs from the left.

 

I almost slept on the keyboard fighting but finally I won. See the results (2 pages list and I missed some ships in the middle).

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/Cain2/Pacific%20Storm/shot0000.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/Cain2/Pacific%20Storm/shot0003.jpg

 

As for the rest of the war - I went to sleep after 1 more hour – it seems that after I exit to strategic from a base attack my fleet keeps attacking until is destroyed …grrr – how do I order them back to base after the first strike?

 

Thanks,

Cain

Edited November 6, 2006 by Cain

[Cain]

QUOTE: Dorny - Well, cool battle. You must have lost it actually, I can't get how you managed to turn to victory agains all these odds.

First, BBs are immune to any artillery fire from the guns you had. Only BB can damage BB in artillery duel. I think that BBs you've sunk were actually hit by torpedoes from subs\destroyers or planes, maybe kamikazes added some damage.

 

As for your question: if the battle is started there are only 2 ways to finish it:

1) win\lose the battle (manually or in autobattle)

2) manually retreat ALL units from battlefield on tactical

Otherwise, even if AI has one damn AA gun somwhere deep in the shore, the battle will continue without you after you exit to strategic and Autobattle results are completely unpredictable..

 

Well I actually won.  ;D As you can see I killed his last sub and get the winning message. I'm an admiral after all

 

To reply to your question how I sunk the BBs:

 

The first two were sunk by torpedoes (my subs were my initial deployed units and I fire all torpedoes in a swigged left right motion - almost nothing survives in that path), then I deployed my carriers and I attacked the remaining one BB on the other part of the island with all my dive-bombers. First I used one dive-bomber each to kamikaze nearby ships - one hit in the middle will take out most of the AA and then I managed to kill the battleship - the speed of the dive is also important (does more damage). After that I concentrated my remaining planes on his cruisers. He sent out one carrier that I took out with my new arrived cruisers since all my dive bombers had no bombs. Then I send my cruisers to take on his remaining ships in the other part of the island. Half way I was surprised by his second wave. He sent against my carriers most of his destroyers plus 2 of his carriers. I was lucky to have two cruisers left behind and with my subs that had left a torpedo or two I managed to take out much of his ships but my carriers were lost (*one I think in his third and last wave) and the sky was swarming with his planes. Still my cruisers were pretty well defended and they were moving away only to discover with horror that his remaining cruisers were also steaming head on as well as one battleship newly deployed. I took out his cruisers with mine. I deployed now all my destroyers to take our carriers and his destroyers. His BB took out all my cruisers so I turned tail and raced with 12-15 destroyers against his BB. They sunk it with torpedoes only to find them self in the path of his sub fleet deployed from that part of the island. Using my remaining planes who landed on the island after the carriers were destroyed I managed to spot and attack his subs with destroyers. I got lucky since I lured them to fire in my first two destroyers and pretty much avoided much of their torpedoes since I was coming around the island with the rest and almost in straight Colum one after the other.

 

This is how I won. And also I used the terrain in my favor. I mean the island’s mountains to move my ships out of his other division fire range (they were hitting the mountains sometimes). So I could concentrate on his left forces and then move to attack his right.

 

So I won with impressive skill and lost only the ships you see listed > Most of my subs and destroyers remained.

 

My question for help is - what key or option do I have to press to retreat at my home base? Were it - I can't find how to order a retreat and they keep attacking.

 

PS. It is too easy to destroy a enemy capital base:

 

1. Send 8-12 subs first and let them fire a volley of all their torpedoes. Wait until they hit and sunk most of the enemy defender ships. Note - the torpedoes run forever so be patient they will certainly hit more ships out of view range. If you delay your attack and wait for the enemy ships to close there is a good chance that the enemy will get reinforcements right in the path of your initial torpedo fire trails. When you fire the torpedoes fire one at 3-4 sec delay and order the sub fleet to move the fleet from left to right slowly. This way you can spread the wall of torpedoes pretty well for devastating effect.

 

2. Do the sub attack twice until you run out of torpedoes.

 

3. Make sure you have a Battleship fleet with some destroyers nearby directed to attack after the subs. Now you can massacre the enemy remaining transports, subs and infrastructure. The AI is powerless to this tactic.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Cain

[Drony]

Now I see. First, it where 3 BBs, not 4. Next, assaulting AI sends BBs in battle in first line which is quite rare if AI is defending.

 

Imagine if AI sends DDs/CCs first, you launch all your torpedoes and then BBs come to scene

Anyway, this battle is really great, almost "must-be" example of how every battle must go -- AI forces are equal or greater then player's, so you must invent some moves to turn it to victory. And you made some important decisions to make it happen -- you don't build fleet, you capture a vast number of bases from the start. So your relatively small forces where splitted along the wide front and AI did find a weak place.

 

Let me show you my stanard strategy for Americans (free campaign, I can't play "Historical"):

Do not capture any bases except Panama, you'll have plenty of resources anyway.

Build at least one Heavy bomber regiment for every base you have (16 HB in each, B-24), better 2

Build BBs

 

This way, you don't have any problems with defending your bases, 16-32 HBs can cope with almost anything, including Zeros And if you have 2 fleets comprised from the units you have from the start, you now start finding weak places in enemy's defences yourself. You shouldn't fortify or even deploy engineers to the bases that do not generate resources -- they are completely useless and require oil all the way. Next, as soon as some of the key enemy bases are captured/destroyed its transport routes become stalled somehow. You will find tons of transports\tankers on many bases, fleets without ammo and fuel etc.

 

Actually, you can try the most eefective way to victory, it will take you some 5 minutes to win the war. Collect all vessels you have and combine them in one huge formation. Send it to Tokio. Autobattle. You will win, trust me. Send the rest to Osaka. Autobattle again. Split the remaining fleet into two and put into both bases. Wait 2 monthes. War's over

 

So as I now understand you must be very silly in strategic to make fine battles happen. I mean, you must help AI to build his own forces, otherwise game becomes a methodical massacre of defenceless enemy...

 

And - two more comments to your initial post.

Don't be afraid to modify your vessels with new techs. It's really easy, just get your vessels to Metropoly, select ALL formations and say change modification -- for all units.

 

 

To my horror the I found out there that some useful carriers were doing pleasure cruises with the transports in peace time.

This is because the Carrier is in the Transport division. Transport/tanker divisions are usually driven by AI if you don't check off delivery options on the bases. So if you want to make, say, big transport fleet that you want to use to transport ammo/oil/troops manually, create a, say, destroyer division and fill it with transports/tankers. Such formation will never be taken by AI

[Drony]

Oops - you've added more while I was typing

 

My question for help is - what key or option do I have to press to retreat at my home base? Were it - I can't find how to order a retreat and they keep attacking.

 

I'm not sure what exactly do you mean. If you mean -- how to order unit to retreat from tactics -- then it is Ctrl-W, but remember that defending units cannot retreat.

[Cain]

So I select the units in tactical and press CTRL-W? Jess - I never knew that. Andthey will go back to the base and stop attacking? Thanks man.

 

My replies in bold below:

 

Now I see. First, it where 3 BBs, not 4. Next, assaulting AI sends BBs in battle in first line which is quite rare if AI is defending.

 

Yes - 2 were on the right and 1 on the left. The 4'th one was deployed much later. He was the attacker - I was defending.

 

Imagine if AI sends DDs/CCs first, you launch all your torpedoes and then BBs come to scene

Anyway, this battle is really great, almost "must-be" example of how every battle must go -- AI forces are equal or greater then player's, so you must invent some moves to turn it to victory. And you made some important decisions to make it happen -- you don't build fleet, you capture a vast number of bases from the start. So your relatively small forces where splitted along the wide front and AI did find a weak place.

 

I captured all of his bases to make sure the japs are forced to attack my first line of defence.

 

Let me show you my stanard strategy for Americans (free campaign, I can't play "Historical"):

Do not capture any bases except Panama, you'll have plenty of resources anyway.

Build at least one Heavy bomber regiment for every base you have (16 HB in each, B-24), better 2

Build BBs

 

Depends on how much AA the AI has ... but yes this may work too.

 

This way, you don't have any problems with defending your bases, 16-32 HBs can cope with almost anything, including Zeros And if you have 2 fleets comprised from the units you have from the start, you now start finding weak places in enemy's defences yourself. You shouldn't fortify or even deploy engineers to the bases that do not generate resources -- they are completely useless and require oil all the way. Next, as soon as some of the key enemy bases are captured/destroyed its transport routes become stalled somehow. You will find tons of transports\tankers on many bases, fleets without ammo and fuel etc.

 

I prevent the enemy for gaining vaulable ground.

 

Actually, you can try the most eefective way to victory, it will take you some 5 minutes to win the war. Collect all vessels you have and combine them in one huge formation. Send it to Tokio. Autobattle. You will win, trust me. Send the rest to Osaka. Autobattle again. Split the remaining fleet into two and put into both bases. Wait 2 monthes. War's over

 

I will edit my reply soo .... gtg 1-2 hours...

 

So as I now understand you must be very silly in strategic to make fine battles happen. I mean, you must help AI to build his own forces, otherwise game becomes a methodical massacre of defenceless enemy...

 

And - two more comments to your initial post.

Don't be afraid to modify your vessels with new techs. It's really easy, just get your vessels to Metropoly, select ALL formations and say change modification -- for all units.

 

This is because the Carrier is in the Transport division. Transport/tanker divisions are usually driven by AI if you don't check off delivery options on the bases. So if you want to make, say, big transport fleet that you want to use to transport ammo/oil/troops manually, create a, say, destroyer division and fill it with transports/tankers. Such formation will never be taken by AI

[Drony]

So I select the units in tactical and press CTRL-W? Jess - I never knew that. Andthey will go back to the base and stop attacking? Thanks man.

 

No !

Ctrl-W works only if YOU are attacking. If you select unit and press CTRL-W, this unit will move to the edge of the map and retreat upon reaching it (simply removed from the map). So thay do not return to base acually -- they just quit the battle.

 

If you are defending, you do not have this option -- YOU MUST FIGHT. You can only land your planes to carriers/airfields, but you cannot retreat.

[Cain]

But this means that they will no longer attack after I exit to strategic? Like they do now...

 

So as I now understand you must be very silly in strategic to make fine battles happen. I mean, you must help AI to build his own forces, otherwise game becomes a methodical massacre of defenceless enemy...

 

Yes ... a pretty classic move for RTS games - poor initial AI

 

And - two more comments to your initial post.

Don't be afraid to modify your vessels with new techs. It's really easy, just get your vessels to Metropoly, select ALL formations and say change modification -- for all units.

 

The Japs attack in waves .... each day - I have no time

 

This is because the Carrier is in the Transport division. Transport/tanker divisions are usually driven by AI if you don't check off delivery options on the bases. So if you want to make, say, big transport fleet that you want to use to transport ammo/oil/troops manually, create a, say, destroyer division and fill it with transports/tankers. Such formation will never be taken by AI

 

Yes I've seen that Thanks

[Drony]

But this means that they will no longer attack after I exit to strategic? Like they do now...

 

Look, this is the story. When the battle starts all units are treated as acting on battlefield, never mind is it manual or auto battle. If you are attacker, you did not kill all enemies and you want to end battle you must remove ALL your units from battlefield.

 

Example: you are attacker with 4 BBs, 10 destroyers, 2 carriers and 8 transports

You go into manual combat. You deploy BBs, Destroyers and carriers. Then you choose to retreat. You order all your units Ctrl-W and eventually they disappear from map. Then you choose to quit to Strategic. Battle still continues because you have 8 transport still "in battle" even if they were not deployed initially. On the battle screen you can see that all military vessels have retreated i.e. "Battleship 4/0/4, Destroyer 10/0/10, Carrier 2/0/2"

So if you now choose autobattle, all your transports will be thrown int battle and will most likely die.

To end battle without losses you must go into manual, deploy transports and order retreat. When the last transport quits the battle is over automatically.

 

Note also that retreat is really pain in the ... because all your vessels have single exit point (point, not line or zone !) and they will gather around it like sheeps...

 

Only one more comment

The Japs attack in waves .... each day - I have no time

Sure you haven't. You should modify your vessels before war breaks out or when you are completely sure you can take part of your fleet from the front line back to Metropolis. I usually have enough time to get sonars and improved fire directors for ships before war begins.

And -- must do -- you should add AA guns to base ships, you can double number of barrels without any tech developed !

[Cain]

So I got it - I have to wait until they all exit ... it is really time consuming because I have to deply them all

 

I can modify existing ships only in Metropolis ? Why?

 

How do I repair damaged ships? Again Metropolis?

 

What 4/0/4 means? I mean why they are separated like t/h/i/s and what other variations mean?

 

Thanks,

Cain

[Drony]

So I got it - I have to wait until they all exit ... it is really time consuming because I have to deply them all

 

Exactly. And not only deployment is time consuming, the retreat itself takes MUCH time -- they travel approx. 1/3 of the map to the exit point usually.

But you didn't start battle just to retreat, did you ? Use Shift-F on strategic to get approximate numbers of opposing force at enemy base and you'll have no need to retreat.

 

I can modify existing ships only in Metropolis ? Why?

Just the rule of the game. You can modify them in any of three Metropolis bases and only there.

 

How do I repair damaged ships? Again Metropolis?

No. You can repair units (planes as well) at any base. Repairs efficiency (i.e. how fast your unit gets 100% health) depends on number of engineers that are on this base and their skill. So I usually move some 10000 engineers to one of my forward bases just to make fast "field" repairs.

 

What 4/0/4 means? I mean why they are separated like t/h/i/s and what other variations mean?

Notation is deployed/killed/retreated units. So the above means 4 deployed/none killed/all retreated

Also, if you have, say, "12/8" line it means that 8 out of 12 units where killed. It used for defending units that cannot retreat.

 

And - yes, I spent some time to get used to it, frankly... ;D

Edited November 7, 2006 by Drony

[Cain]

Cool - thanks.

 

I attack enemy bases with my subs first and then I want to retreat. I go in the battle and fire all my torpedoes - almost half of them - the other torpedo half load you can't fire. So I sunk the first enemy wave and then I exit to strategic and reenter the battle. My subs can now reposition and the enemy is way back. Now I fire the other half of the torpedoes - a real massacre.

 

So now I want to retreat my subs.... That’s why I needed CTRL-W

EDIT:

 

Ok i'm in the metropolis with my 10 BBs - I select change modification > it opens a window ...press change and nothing happens. It keep pressing ... nothing. I can update from the other menu because it tells me that unit already made. I have researeched the radar and want to update my Colorados ... so what I am missing?

 

Thanks

Edited November 7, 2006 by Cain

[Drony]

Reg. subs -- it's actually a cheat, when you reenter the battle with all your torps ready to fire again

 

About modification. Let's add AA guns to Colorado

First, you need to create modified ship. Go to Metropolis screen (where units are scheduled for production). Find Colorado in the leftmost (ships) column and click icon to the right

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h77/Drony/t.jpg

The modification screen will appear. Sorry, I didn't find English one. And it's Iowa

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h77/Drony/t1.jpg

Here you should select Colorado (if not selected yet) in the righ-bottom menu, copy it and then rename as you wish (i.e. Colorado_MK1).

Select this MK1 unit (which is still equal to the original). Now you can add AA guns or anything you've invented to it. Upon completion, simply close this screen.

Now you have modification your BBs can be upgraded to.

Select all your BBs (or all formations, never mind), click modify, select Colorado, select Colorado_MK1 in the center menu, click modify.

It will take some time, see logs on strategic level, it will say something like "units modification in formation XXX is complete"

Edited November 9, 2006 by Drony

[Cain]

Great - thanks. I will try it tonight at home. Btw Serghei told me that they fixed the torpedos range in the expansion.

[Drony]

Btw Serghei told me that they fixed the torpedos range in the expansion.

I wonder what took them so long... :

[Cain]

I wonder what took them so long... :

 

Hey - You are a beta tester no?! so you must know what is already in PSA.

 

I will try to play today the free campaign. I wish I could play a campaign after pearl harbor. Is there anywere a campaign editor?

[Drony]

Hey - You are a beta tester no?!  so you must know what is already in PSA.

Yessir. But I will not tell

I will try to play today the free campaign. I wish I could play a campaign after pearl harbor. Is there anywere a campaign editor?

If only Kilo made something like that He's very devoted boy

[Cain]

I want a campaign after Pearl So how it's your PS going lately ? what was your coolest heroic battle

?

[Drony]

I'm retired actually. Can play only on weekends, not every though.

Coolest battle ? Donno. Maybe Bremerton with 60+ opposing B24 with my zeros armed with guided missiles Or maybe when I finally catched stranded US fleet with 7 BBs and tons of other stuff...

[Cain]

How cool is PSA compared to PS?

[Drony]

NDA  (Non Disclosure Agreement) Edited November 8, 2006 by Cain

[Cain]

NDA  (Non Disclosure Agreement)

 

Ok - talk about your feelings playing the two version of the game

[Drony]

Well, it is not secret that PSA has two major additions

1. Hit location system (i.e. any vessel is split into sections and its damage is no longer a disappering lifebar, it depends on location of every hit very much).

2. UK as playable nation, diplomacy and trade

 

Both features tend to change gameplay much and that's all I can say for now.

 

EDIT:

Ask Hunter for a change, he's definitely authorised to promote PSA

[Cain]

Why we don't have spying? That will be great.