Re: Thoughts on game-breaking capital ships

[MonkeyBiz]

So I've been working on this mod for a while now, and I'm considering adding in game-breaking capital ships such as the Allegiance-class Star Dreadnaught, the MC90 and Mediator battle Cruisers, etc. Buildable only on one or two worlds. immensely powerful.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

[darth trogsasea]

knowing its from you it will be awesome  Personally  Ifeel that way to many mods focus on huge ships. I would enjoy seeing more frigates and corvettes and ground units as well as fighters. Just my 2 cents 

yeah that sounds good

 

i have an idea for a ship i call it the "Paraduas class destroyer"

 

here is its names in game  if it ever gets thare

 

Rebel - Paradaus D-class Destroyer

Empire - Paradaus Crusier

Offical name - paradauosa Decamator-class Destroyer

 

the paradaus part comes from the producer

 

Paradauosa Civial Shipyards-housed on Paradaisa Prime  (yes its made up but hey the whole thing is , and no  pun inteded)

[MonkeyBiz]

Unfortunately, we're artificially limited by the number of units you can fit on the bar. The problem with fighters is that there really weren't that many different kinds of fighters. I could add in the K-Wing, I suppose. I wonder if anyone has tried making a SIXTH tech level? If not, it might be fun to try. I mean, where is the artificial limit? I think it's entirely possible. Tech Five would be the Capital Ships, and Tech Six would be the Super Capital Ships.

 

This bears investigating.

[darth trogsasea]

uhh its easy make star bases more of defense platfroms

and have ship yards like

 

netral ship yard - buy ( very high cost but almost insatnt production ) ships that are used by both sides

ship yards

 

-class-

 

ligth - fighters and partol craft

normal - frigates and destroyers

hevey -  hevey frigates and capships

specialized - super capital and very spific units

 

-size-

 

small - cheap to buld but bulds larger ships slow

medium - medioker  - bulds most units cant super capital

large -expensive but bulds unit fast can is only ship yard size that can buld suer capital and

[MajorPayne]

Monkeybiz. With regards to the limits of the bar. I'll be working on some sort of work around as I've actually run out of space myself. I'll keep you posted if I get anywhere.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

My opinion is this.

 

1. The problem of the bar is really an annoyng one. They could have increased it or at least make it scrollable.

 

2. I prefer more variety of ships from smaller to bigger like in warlords and more correspondent to the SW universe. Empire and scums should be more different. Empire more ISD oriented while scums more on smaller and medium ships of the MC line as only Empire has gigantic and super ships.

 

3. Adding some ground units like web troopers from bail would be good too. The FOC troops are really a right complement with the addtion of DF 3 phases.

[scott2978]

I've come up with a couple work arounds for the "full bar syndrome" as I call it.

 

1. Make all your ships only available at certain planets, like the Capital ships are now. That way no matter what planet you go to, the bar won't be full because only some of the ships can be built there. You would do this with the tag. It would also add some strategic depth because you would have to control the right planets to build the kind of ships you want.

 

2. Make your ship selection advance with tech level. As tech level increases, some ships become obsolete and can no longer be built. This may be possible using the same values that the fighters use to do just that in the spawning tags. There may be other (better) ways to do it as well.

 

3. Make some ships have a build limit. That way, when you build one, the icon dissapears from the bar. Of course the downside is that if you lose it, (or them depending on how high the limit is) then the icon comes back.

 

4. Make the bigger ships spawn the smaller ships. This is something I've been toying around with lately. Instead of building a ship, you build a FLEET OF SHIPS! All in one ship. Then the big daddy mothership spawns all the smaller ones once you get in battle. For instance, a Star Destroyer that spawns two Victory Destroyers, an Acclamator, an Escort Carrier and six Lancers.  Each of the small ships would have to be coded with 0 pop cap and NOT be buildable at the stations. Also the motherships would have to be like 20 pop cap or something. But it's doable, and it GREATLY reduces the number of icons you display on the bar. The downside is that you rarely get to bring in reinforcements. That's one of the coolest aspects of space battles in EAW, that's why I never raise the pop cap. Using buildable fleets pretty much means you never get to do it. Bummer.

 

If anyone else has any ideas please post 'em.

 

 

Scott

[jedi_consulor]

My opinion is this.

 

1. The problem of the bar is really an annoyng one. They could have increased it or at least make it scrollable.

 

2. I prefer more variety of ships from smaller to bigger like in warlords and more correspondent to the SW universe. Empire and scums should be more different. Empire more ISD oriented while scums more on smaller and medium ships of the MC line as only Empire has gigantic and super ships.

 

3. Adding some ground units like web troopers from bail would be good too. The FOC troops are really a right complement with the addtion of DF 3 phases.

 

I'm still not sure how Steiners crew did it - they some how made it 'wide' and more icons are able to fit onto the bar. I think they must of resized some images maybe as well as some coding.

[DragonShadow]

I've come up with a couple work arounds for the "full bar syndrome" as I call it.

 

1. Make all your ships only available at certain planets, like the Capital ships are now. That way no matter what planet you go to, the bar won't be full because only some of the ships can be built there. You would do this with the tag. It would also add some strategic depth because you would have to control the right planets to build the kind of ships you want.

 

2. Make your ship selection advance with tech level. As tech level increases, some ships become obsolete and can no longer be built. This may be possible using the same values that the fighters use to do just that in the spawning tags. There may be other (better) ways to do it as well.

 

3. Make some ships have a build limit. That way, when you build one, the icon dissapears from the bar. Of course the downside is that if you lose it, (or them depending on how high the limit is) then the icon comes back.

 

4. Make the bigger ships spawn the smaller ships. This is something I've been toying around with lately. Instead of building a ship, you build a FLEET OF SHIPS! All in one ship. Then the big daddy mothership spawns all the smaller ones once you get in battle. For instance, a Star Destroyer that spawns two Victory Destroyers, an Acclamator, an Escort Carrier and six Lancers.  Each of the small ships would have to be coded with 0 pop cap and NOT be buildable at the stations. Also the motherships would have to be like 20 pop cap or something. But it's doable, and it GREATLY reduces the number of icons you display on the bar. The downside is that you rarely get to bring in reinforcements. That's one of the coolest aspects of space battles in EAW, that's why I never raise the pop cap. Using buildable fleets pretty much means you never get to do it. Bummer.

 

If anyone else has any ideas please post 'em.

 

 

Scott

 

I had an idea similar to this, where instead of constructing individual ships, you'd also have the option of producing Battlegroups instead where you have one core ship (a capital vessel most likely, depending on the Battlegroup type), and all the others are escorts like the Death Star and Death Star II have. Obviously Battlegroups would cost more and take more time to build, but it could definitely be used to "expand" the build bar.

[darth trogsasea]

dude from the size of the ISD it should only have 1 tartan cosidering they are the size of a corlian corvette  and we clearly see a ISD take a vette in to the underside hanger

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

The Fleet option is interesting. The smaller ships could be added to the escort of a bigger one or made obsolete. Perhaps combinig the two things in this way :

 

Ships like the Neb-B Acclamator ect could be made avaible only as an escort at the level at which the ISD or MC are avaible. While ather ships like the tartan and basic ships could still be avaible.

 

I hope I have been clear. ;D

[Droid803]

The fleet/battlegroup system REALLY hits hard on micromanagement of fleets (I've tried it).

The problem is that if any ship is lost in other than the flagship, they regenerate after each battle. And if the flagship is lost, the entire fleet is gone after the battle too, even if the other ships haven't taken a hit. Makes a new strategy to always take out the flagships and leave the stragglers...even if you just retreat after...

[MajorPayne]

Well my personal take is that the bar should have been split and had tabs. One for fighters, cruisers, frigates and capital ships and a final one for rersearch upgrades.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

I completely agree with Major.

Infact that would have been the best thing to do.

[MonkeyBiz]

I agree with Major, but we kind of drifted off topic

 

What I was talking about was the addition of HUGE capital ships like the Allegiance, MC90, Strident, Viscount, and Executor. The kind of ships where you get one in a fleet and that's all she wrote.

[ultimentra]

Yea i loved how the eclipse in AGDv3 was a fleet all its own. Like it should be. The other SSDs were cool too.

[swfan654]

Well my personal take is that the bar should have been split and had tabs. One for fighters, cruisers, frigates and capital ships and a final one for rersearch upgrades.

 

Homeworld 2 anyone?  ;D

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

Homeworld is obsolete.

[scott2978]

Obsolescence matters not! I know several people who still play Star Wars: Rebellion which came out back in 1995 and is still among the top 5 Star Wars PC games of all time IMO.

 

 

Scott

[1upD]

Unfortunately, we're artificially limited by the number of units you can fit on the bar. The problem with fighters is that there really weren't that many different kinds of fighters. I could add in the K-Wing, I suppose. I wonder if anyone has tried making a SIXTH tech level? If not, it might be fun to try. I mean, where is the artificial limit? I think it's entirely possible. Tech Five would be the Capital Ships, and Tech Six would be the Super Capital Ships.

 

I have heard that some people have been able to build ships with other ships. Thus, you could delete ALL the fighters(and corvettes and frigates for the empire), and then have them built by other ships. Then the rebels would lose the corvettes and frigates at the tech they get mon cals, and the mon cals would build corvettes and frigates. The same(unfortuneatly) could go for inantry. There could be a mobile barracks, and elite infantry could be able to 'call down'(build) more infantry. Expanding on the mobile barracks idea, Project Mars has been able to get Star Destroyers visible in orbit during land battles. They could be like "mobile barracks'.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

Hmm I don't like this solution. better to rely on obsolete factor or small escort fleet one.

[Droid803]

I have heard that some people have been able to build ships with other ships.

Its REALLY easy, you'll hit yourself for not thinking of it

<Tactical_Objects_Buildable_Multiplayer>
          Empire,
                  <Empire units>
          Rebel,
                  <Rebel units>
</Tactical_Objects_Buildable_Multiplayer>

That's for multiplayer (starbase replacement)
For GC, its a LOT harder, but easily handeled by limiting build options o certain planets.

[Empireftw]

Yeah hopefully some one will come up with a way to make the tool bar longer or scrollable so that we dont have a limit to what we can build.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

Oh well this should be a task Petro should handle for us in a patch for both FOC and EAW.

They MUST do it.  ;D

[1upD]

Its REALLY easy, you'll hit yourself for not thinking of it

<Tactical_Objects_Buildable_Multiplayer>
          Empire,
                  <Empire units>
          Rebel,
                  <Rebel units>
</Tactical_Objects_Buildable_Multiplayer>

That's for multiplayer (starbase replacement)
For GC, its a LOT harder, but easily handeled by limiting build options o certain planets.

I have assumed that was how.......But I thought they might have had to do something else too. Thanks for showing me. Also, using that code, I've figured out how to make things buildable in GC....not sure if it works...