Models to spare?

[Empireftw]

Im not going to agrue any more but i realy dont t hink u are going to get what u want and thier are alot of cons in your idea.

[jedi_consulor]

I wasn't arguing about anything.. more like debating a possibility. If there are cons to our 'idea' as you put it then please be good enough to point out what they are ? - I'll reiterate the fact that Keeper of the Faith did this and released his models to the community. Just how was there any cons in this for him ? In other words if one person was able to do this for the community then how is it he is the only one that was able to - or willing to.

 

I think your point lies on the fact that you think no one is willing to rather than the fact no one has done so in the past. Keepers models are testament to the fact that people have given to the community for everyone to share. His only concessions were that you do the coding yourself.

 

If it never happens again what KOF did then I think its a sad day for this community that people can't share their work with the world as Keeper did. I repeat. AS KEEPER did if he did it why can't any one else do it ?

[DragonShadow]

While I have to agree with JC's sentiment, I don't think it's a plausible outcome. If mods release their self-made models to the public, there will be inevitable plagiarist mods. I already know several people on this forum who've had their mod uploaded to filefront or other such sites by some other person who simply changed the name in the Readme file. While I believe public models would be an asset to the community, I also believe it's something that really shouldn't be done due to the reasons I have already stated. We have the Warlords models in the public domain, and there are still many of those that have yet to be put into EaW. I think the community should concentrate on converting those 3ds models int alo, and making those public models for those who can't/don't know how to convert models.

[MonkeyBiz]

I'd be in favor of that. The problem is there aren't enough people who know 3D Max well enough to convert the Warlords models. If I did, I would. But I don't, and don't have the time like I did in college to mess around with it until I get it right.

[jedi_consulor]

hmm yes well I have 3d max installed but I haven't had much time to learn how to convert those Warlords models otherwise I would be doing it for the community for free. If I ever do manage to produce a model that works fine I'll certainly release it. I think our problem really is the fact that most decent modellers are tied up in projects. They haven't the time to do freelance work for us to use.

 

It will be down to some one - maybe one of us to just learn modelling for EAW for ourselves and share what we have with each other when we have it available ?

[Darth Khasei]

;D Interesting topic. I had voiced some concern over the large projects selfishly hogging all of the models and modelers at the start of summer. Advertising a mod like it was going to be a whole new game or something, pifft.

 

Some of them even stated that the mod would be better than FOC, which at that time and now upon FOC release, was laughable. The driving factor in the lack of models appears to be EGO tripping net'ers that seek a higher recognition for modifications of PETROGLYPH'S work, brilliant!

 

I called for public release of models MONTHS ago, but of course this was poo poo'ed by the mods spin doctors at once.

 

I said it then and I will repeat it here KOF, Baliknight and Steiner's group are the best modders in this community. Why? Because they just produce results and share them with us regular folks, no hype, no hording, no hysterical comparisons of a modded work to the retail product etc...

 

Thank goddness for those guys or we would still have practically nothing.

[scott2978]

While I have to agree with JC's sentiment, I don't think it's a plausible outcome. If mods release their self-made models to the public, there will be inevitable plagiarist mods. I already know several people on this forum who've had their mod uploaded to filefront or other such sites by some other person who simply changed the name in the Readme file. While I believe public models would be an asset to the community, I also believe it's something that really shouldn't be done due to the reasons I have already stated. We have the Warlords models in the public domain, and there are still many of those that have yet to be put into EaW. I think the community should concentrate on converting those 3ds models int alo, and making those public models for those who can't/don't know how to convert models.

 

I have to disagree with this sentiment for many reasons.

 

First, why should the modeler care if his model is being used in Mod A or Mod B or whatever? The modeler made his model to be enjoyed by others, or else he never would have put it into a mod to begin with. Why should it matter what mod it's in? As long as he gets credit, why should he care? (and even if he doesn't get credit, why should he care?) I myself made a gigantic mod for Starfleet Command III, (TNZ-5) I modeled close to 100 ships with 3D Max, and I now see my models being used in dozens of mods, even in Star Trek games that are completely unrelated to SFC III (My Klingon models are used as ship counters in the neat little STSTCS game), and has anyone ever asked me for permission? No. Do I care? No. Because I get to see so many thousands of people enjoying something I made I don't give a crap if I become famous for it or not. The enjoyment is in the enjoyment, if you get my meaning. Anyone thinking otherwise is either modeling for a living or needs to grow up. This business of trying to keep your model from "falling into the wrong hands" is just infantile. The PROPER way to conduct yourself as a modder is to politely ask that anyone using your material please give you credit. Period. Release your material for the world to enjoy. Some day some kid will download your mod, or someone elses mod, and see your work and go "Dang that's a cool ship, I wonder who made it?" And you will have made the world a better place. Congrats, you left your mark on the universe. Who cares if it has a sig under it or not.

 

Lastly, there is a small faction of modders and forum lurkers here who have begun a feeling of trust and comradeship around here. They want to share, cooperate, help and propel this community. Tread on them at your own risk. If the light of wisdom and joy is stamped out of this community by greed, selfishness and petty dreams of ethereal glory, we will all suffer. Make your mark on this community by being one of the positives, not one of the negatives.

 

 

Scott

[DragonShadow]

If you had read my post, you'll realize I was talking about plagiarists who take credit for the work of others. I have no problem with people using something I create so long as I am given proper credit for my work. Why should I care? Because I spent the time and effort to make something, and thus should at least be given the dignity of having my work recognized. If you were a modeler you might understand such concepts, but it seems to me that you just want others' work for yourself and could care less about how much effort they put into it. I don't care about fame or fortune, I just don't want my work stolen, especially if other people claim that it's theirs.

 

I am not treading on those who wish to create public domain models and code. I am in support of such efforts. However I also believe that those who make that public domain content have the right to be credited for their work. And if you think we believe we can attain glory through a video game mod, then that's just pitiful (disregarding LoW and UEAW, lol).

[jedi_consulor]

;D Interesting topic. I had voiced some concern over the large projects selfishly hogging all of the models and modelers at the start of summer. Advertising a mod like it was going to be a whole new game or something, pifft.

 

Some of them even stated that the mod would be better than FOC, which at that time and now upon FOC release, was laughable. The driving factor in the lack of models appears to be EGO tripping net'ers that seek a higher recognition for modifications of PETROGLYPH'S work, brilliant!

 

I called for public release of models MONTHS ago, but of course this was poo poo'ed by the mods spin doctors at once.

 

I said it then and I will repeat it here KOF, Baliknight and Steiner's group are the best modders in this community. Why? Because they just produce results and share them with us regular folks, no hype, no hording, no hysterical comparisons of a modded work to the retail product etc...

 

Thank goddness for those guys or we would still have practically nothing.

 

Thank YOU. You have echoed my thoughts exactly on this. Ego trip - funny I did mention that earlier I am glad I am not the only one to have seen this there IS hope for this community after all - thanks for quoting KOF and Bailknight - those people are shining examples of what good people are in this community. Bailknight like KOF have both shared there work with the community - Bail has given permission to several mods to use his work.

 

I think it seems there is more people in this community that think alike than I thought.

[jedi_consulor]

If you had read my post, you'll realize I was talking about plagiarists who take credit for the work of others. I have no problem with people using something I create so long as I am given proper credit for my work. Why should I care? Because I spent the time and effort to make something, and thus should at least be given the dignity of having my work recognized. If you were a modeler you might understand such concepts, but it seems to me that you just want others' work for yourself and could care less about how much effort they put into it. I don't care about fame or fortune, I just don't want my work stolen, especially if other people claim that it's theirs.

 

I am not treading on those who wish to create public domain models and code. I am in support of such efforts. However I also believe that those who make that public domain content have the right to be credited for their work. And if you think we believe we can attain glory through a video game mod, then that's just pitiful (disregarding LoW and UEAW, lol).

 

I understood you clearly and well enough I have to agree with your comments about people being given credit for their work - its illogical to assume otherwise. We have to know who did some thing in order to celebrate their work and what they have done for us. If I myself create some thing I would expect the same treatment.

 

There's nothing wrong with models or code being in the free domain as long as there are people doing this work and are being given credit for their work. I have already said I have coded several of KOF's Models and released the code to the public domain to be used in peoples mods as they wish. All I ask for is that they notify me if they want to use this code in a public mod.

 

I like Steiners Modding group idea that they blue print their models. - good idea really. At least they can't be stolen and used in other mods. its hard to do this with xml code you have worked on yourself though to prove you did the code.

[scott2978]

If you had read my post... 

 

If you were a modeler...

 

 

I stated that I made over 100 models for SFC III in my post, and that I don't care weather I get credit for them or not.  You did read my post in it's entirety and based your comments on a completely informed position, didn't you? No? Well there's still time to go back and read my post again DragonShadow

 

And please note that just because I personally don't care about getting credit, that doesn;t mean I don't GIVE credit, or that I don't think anyone should try to get credit for their work. I was trying to say that not releasing work for fear that someone else would use it is stupid.

 

I agree 100% with Jedi_consular and Darth Khasei

 

Scott

[DragonShadow]

I have to disagree with this sentiment for many reasons.

 

First, why should the modeler care if his model is being used in Mod A or Mod B or whatever?

 

gah, stupid forum...

 

Anyway: I read that and stopped b/c I simply could not understand the sheer insanity of this sentence. Upon reading the rest of it, I now see we're on (relatively) the same page. I apologize.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

I agree with Monkey and those who believe in public models to be shared.

Like in the RTW community where most of the work is public and for all to use.

I asked Eville J. if he could convert the models so that we all could have standard models to be used.

[swfan654]

EvilleJedi has already done enough as it is.

 

We were supplied with the models in the first place.

[DragonShadow]

EvilleJedi has already done enough as it is.

 

We were supplied with the models in the first place.

 

And he's making new Warlords-quality versions of new EaW and FoC ships, so let him do that.

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

True. I agree with DS. We need him to convert and made those really excellent ships.

[Dr. Nick]

I think you didn't understand his post...

To me, he's saying to let EvilleJedi stick with his modeling...let some one else do the converting...I guess...

 

On a side note, I have just completed a Victory Frigate Mark 2 model and exported it w/ skin. It will be free released as soon as I test it and make sure there are no bugs in the rigging.

[MonkeyBiz]

Bwahahahaha... I've apparently opened Pandora's Box.

 

The long and the short of it is that the big mod teams tie up the modelers making their mods. So, what happens is that the rest of us have to make do with table scraps and whatever we can get from other released mods. Let's say you have three mod teams, and each team has a modeler and a skinner. Let's say one is doing KotOR era, another is doing Clone Wars, and another is doing Yuuzhan Vong. That's totally okay, because that's three distinct eras. Now, let's say you've got all three working in the Galactic Civil War era. So now you have three different Star Destroyers and Mon Cal Cruisers and all sorts of other stuff that's being duplicated.

 

One of the team members from Legacy of War has offered to host mods. I'm asking, humbly, on behalf of the community, to host models and code instead. A community run model and code exchange. So you're looking for a Bulwark cruiser? Hey, here's the model and the code. You want to give X-Wings turbolasers? Here's the code! And sure, there might be copycats. There might be some people that dupe mods and upload them as their own. But is it really that big a deal? I know I don't care if someone uses my code. When I released that private Golan thing a few weeks ago, I said that the code is open to the public. So, there you go.

 

And EvilleJedi has done so much. Let him just do his thing, and let us worry about converting.

 

And what's the difference appearance wise between the Mark I and the Mark II?

[Dr. Nick]

No clue really...

 

A model and code exchange? That would completely eliminate the purpose of mods I think...

 

If every single thing was released and rereleased...(insert ninja smily here)

 

and I believe some one else has already released a mass warlords conversion...which A Galaxy Divided has already taken advantage of I hear.

[Empireftw]

The vsd 1 has missle thing sticking out of it the vsd 2 doesnt, btw the vsd 2 is what is in eaw atm.

[scott2978]

A model and code exchange? That would completely eliminate the purpose of mods I think...

 

Lets not forget that those of us who can and or will mod the game at all are the distinct minority here. 99% of people who will use any mods are just players who heard about it on the web or by other means and go download it to try it out. Don't confuse this community here for a representation of the entire EAW playing population. We are the elite! Most players, some of my weekend LAN party friends included, gaze in rapt wonderment at the slightest game mod. It is for them that we release our works to the public, and also for us here so that we can contribute and help others to bring their visions to life as well.

 

Kudos to us, the mod community. May we conduct ourselves wisely. Hopefully this thread is an indication of things to come... because IMHO this thread is full of community spirit and great optomism.

 

 

Scott

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

I believe Warlords models should be converted correctly by EJ because only him who is the original creator now how and what are the purpose. Then each mod team or modders can edit the weapons ect.

I mean to have a common basic made in the right way and then edited by eachone purpose.

[DragonShadow]

He's busy enough, let him work on his new models in peace. there are plenty of people here capable of converting these models.

[jedi_consulor]

No clue really...

 

A model and code exchange? That would completely eliminate the purpose of mods I think...

 

If every single thing was released and rereleased...(insert ninja smily here)

 

and I believe some one else has already released a mass warlords conversion...which A Galaxy Divided has already taken advantage of I hear.

 

um no actually it wouldn't eliminate the need for mods. If people were to do a 'Model/Code' exchange as has been suggested then people can obtain code in the free domain for their mods. It doesn't stop the need for mods to be developed. Mods are fun - If people do public mods based on different periods of Star Wars history then that's cool.

 

All it means that there is a proper resource base there for people to look into and use what they need for a mod they working on.

 

Also finally - because this is my last post in this topic because I am now tired of going on LOL ..

 

Not everyone can code in EAW - some can but are not very good at it. Same with making models and skinning yes ? - ok so a resource base of xml code and models that are proven to be good quality would be made available to people who can't code, can't make models but want that new shiny ship in there game.

 

They just basically follow easy to use instruction on how to add that nice shiny new unit in their game. Of course the resource base can be used by anyone from novice's to advanced. The licence of use for the code and any models donated to the resource base would be covered by an acceptable user policy. Agreements on given credit where needed if any xml code and model is used in a public mod.

 

Obviously to not follow the terms of this agreement and a public mod is found out - then they would be in bug trouble by the community Private modders only need to understand its for their own private use and they should keep it like that. They need to code in the units themselves as they did with KOF's models.

 

I think the system is fair - it gives the community an open resource base for people to share open source code and models. Note the word 'Open Source' here it means its open to the community to use - but there is as always a user policy on using any xml code or models etc that you use.

[MajorPayne]

EJ will not convert his models to ALO. He said that himself. Thats also the reason why he released his models to the public.

 

The bottom line here, is that these modding teams do the work they do, not for the community (if that was the case the sense dictates that a mod team would ask the community for their input in the mods content), but for the team and its simply a matter of their being nice that the mods are released. Scott. Your statement concerning model theft is incorrect. Its not the re-release that causes problems. Its when a persons hard work (for which they don't receive any kind of payment aside from the recognition behind whatever they do) is blatantly defaced by someone who calls themself a "modder". Until you actually have it happen to you, you won't know what its like.

 

However, the flip side of the coin is, if I make a model then I'll nearly always grant its usage, and this is very true due to my posting my unconverted meshes on the site that I'm admin of. Its also why you'll see my models in several of the popular trek based games.

 

Anyway, as FoC is out now, and I've gotten myself a copy I might see about making some small releases, and maybe a minimod of my own.