Models to spare?

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

I love mods and playing them. But I rather prefer mod the mods. In the sense to remove things I believe stupids or useless and add what I like ect.

I was a RTW modder who released ALONE a big mod. I found myself depressed as it was a waste of time as all mods were going to be the same.

Now I would really like to have models avaibel and hope KOTF or someone of good volunteer would continue on this track as I prefer to mod the game for myself and add or kill what I prefer.

I beleve that There will be a moment when all mods will be nearly the same and people will have enough of that and probably prefer do it themselves. Only a bit of coding is necessary.So..

I hope I haven't offended anyone but I hope in a models free release for all to use.

[MonkeyBiz]

The Star Wars universe gives us all a unique opportunity. It's an engine that is mostly totally modifiable. We can add all our own units, planets, stats, and UIs relatively easily. Because of the nature of the stories, we have tons of different eras; we have the old Old Republic, the new Old Republic, the rise of the Empire, the Galactic Civil War, the post-Endor conflict, the Thrawn campaigns, the Yuuzhan Vong, the Corellian conflict, the Swarm War, etc. We can literally build any scenario for Star Wars we want. We just need time and people willing to do it.

[jedi_consulor]

I am sure there are people willing to do it. Some mods will take time to produce - particularly if you want to make a mod that is about another part of the Star Wars Universe.

 

I have just been reading about FOC - people were saying its very unbalanced - wont be long before some balance mods come out soon for FOC - They were saying the corruption ability is too powerful - I wont find out until the weekend though  :

[swfan654]

I dont really see why Dark Empire SPG is targeted here, other mods have not released models either.... :-\ (as of this moment.........)

 

Only ones I have seen release models are Aosw and UEAW, so if youre going to say a team isnt releasing models, say all the ones not releasing it, not just certain ones.

 

IA2, DE, and LoW all have things planned in the near future if you noticed....

 

Its probably because we have something someone wants that these other mods arent including....

 

The credit things has alot to do with this, its kinda stupid that you make something and the dont get recognition for it just because it was used by someone else, if DE or IA2 handed me something and said I could use it in a mod but no one else can, honestly Id probably say no, I have the attitude that whoever did the work on these things be first and get credit for it, then someone else getting the recognition just cause it was used by them before the mod who did this work used it.

 

Its not really a matter of greed or selfishness, you want this thing before the mod team who made it releases it, put your own time, effort, and sometimes money if its modelling, rigging, or skinning, into it.

 

As its been said, there really isnt a purpose of that mod continuing if they just release all their models before the final thing, people will have these models already so there would be no use to download the thing when people could mod the same thing because its been set before them already.

 

I honestly think it was foolish of Dark Empire to let AGD use the eclipse, even if theirs was better, AGD was "first mod to have an Eclipse in it". That made it seem like DE just did nothing, and that AGD created the used Eclipse.

 

If you dont realize though, who are these mods for??? They are for the community, not to be made and then locked up after completion.

 

Like if LoW released every one of the models they are using, who would want the mod anymore?? only people who would probably download it would be the ones who cant code in the models that they have free released....

 

Dont call me selfish or greedy, but it just isnt fair if someone does something and doesnt get recognition for something they have worked on, not the person who might release it coded first.

 

consulor or Monkeybiz itd be like you posting a part of your code and then someone uses it and it seems they coded it in, not you that spent your time and effort one the code. I dont think youd like it would you?

 

these are my opinions and I just KNOW someone is going to say thats selfish. :-*

 

and this is officially the longest post Ive ever done.

[MonkeyBiz]

The honest truth is that if someone asked for my code (like for the Golan mod) I'd have no problem releasing it and letting other people use it. I code because I love it. I create because it gives me a sense of satisfaction. If someone else wants to use it for their own ends, go ahead. I've freely offered code here before. And there are some models floating around. So sure, if you use a model in a mod that someone else created, you give them credit.

 

Also, I called out Dark Empire and Legacy of War because they're the only ones that I know of that have shown model teasers that, to the best of my knowledge, don't exist anywhere else.

 

The problem is that modelers, skinners, and riggers are in woefully short supply. There just aren't very many in the community. Everyone and their dog is a coder. We all know our way around the XMLs. But it's the true creators that are in the highest demand. They get locked up by mod teams, and they're never seen again. Occasionally you get someone like Keeper of Faith, who released some decent free models, but even those were okay conversions of Warlords models.

 

So, swfan, I understand your point. But the needs of the community outweigh the needs of the mods. And right now, the community needs quality models.

[DragonShadow]

Hey, so has AoSW, lol. ;D

[Empireftw]

Alright but just think about this to what is all the mods used the same model in every one of them it gets very repetative, also after spending 100 or so hours on a mods and finding that no one downloaded it because u already let out the mod is very depressing. The warlord models are out thier use those but please dont go askingon the forum for some models people spent 5 or more hours on just so it can be in your mod, sure u might be greatful but thier are aton of people who will just ask can i use your model and when they use they give u credit but they dont feel great ful and u feel riped off. Edited October 27, 2006 by Empireftw

[MonkeyBiz]

I feel like people aren't reading what I'm writing. The models don't make the mod. It's what you do with them that does. Personally, I'd be all in favor of a community code repository where you can ask "How do you do xyz?" and there's the code that someone figured out. I'd be more than happy to contribute what I've done.

 

And if you're getting depressed over the fact that people aren't downloading your mod for a game, you have other issues that may require professional help. Modding is a labor of love. You do it because you love it; either the game, or the subject, or whatever. I mod because I want to change the game to fit my vision of the Star Wars Universe. I mod because I'm not old enough to have seen the original trilogy in theaters, but I saw the Special Edition, and every Prequel on opening night. I mod because there are crappy mods out there that have no business being released, but occasionally one of them does something different that makes you stop and say "Huh... That's not a bad idea." We talk about the community dying; well, we have a brand new expansion pack full of goodies. But we don't have the models to make our individual visions come true.

 

Now, I ask, so what if ten different mods use the same model? One mod might have Star Destroyers with nothing but proton torpedo launchers; another might have fifty turbolaser hardpoints; another might make them super fast and have ten different variants. It's not the model; it's what you do with it.

[Empireftw]

Look for the record thier is the warlords models u could use those.

 

Now think about it this way, each model is a painting that 1 individual made the person took hours apone hours to make this perfect, and then some person who doesnt know a thing about pianting says i can i use your painting in my colection so i can sell it and make alot of money ill give u the credit, how would u feel about that?

 

Sure for personal mods i dont see why they wouldnt as in it will never be released to the public.

 

Also sure the mod community is dying the part of it that makes a realy small mod that no one cares about, all that are left are the big ones that every one is looking foward to, im not saying realy small mods are bad im just saying we dont need tons of them.

[DragonShadow]

Small mods are a good thing. The are one thing that all the large TC mods aren't: FAST.

[MonkeyBiz]

Let's say Legacy of War or Dark Empire released things as they're done, rather than all at once. Instead of fifty new units, we got ten. And rather than having nothing, we got to see something.

 

Also, you guys make it sound like you can just pop the Warlords models into 3D Studio Max, hit "Convert to EaW" and that's it. Those take time too.

 

Moreover, public models actually speed development. Imagine if we all had the same Star Destroyer model, the same Mon Cal Cruiser model, etc. LoW could spend all their time doing the Vong units. Dark Empire could spend all their time doing all the crazy stuff from Dark Empire. And then those get added to the public domain. Eventually, you've got tons of models that anyone can use. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

[jedi_consulor]

I dont really see why Dark Empire SPG is targeted here, other mods have not released models either.... Undecided (as of this moment.........)

 

no one is targeting anyone. You misunderstood the comments about SPG.. I personally appriciate their offers of releasing models to the community and any competitions they want to do. So you should too.

 

IA2, DE, and LoW all have things planned in the near future if you noticed....

 

Of course I notice... I notice a lot of things on this site. However LOW's offering maybe too little too late.

 

The credit things has alot to do with this, its kinda stupid that you make something and the dont get recognition for it just because it was used by someone else, if DE or IA2 handed me something and said I could use it in a mod but no one else can, honestly Id probably say no, I have the attitude that whoever did the work on these things be first and get credit for it, then someone else getting the recognition just cause it was used by them before the mod who did this work used it.

 

You don't need to tell me about that. I already know this.. If you recall I just mentioned in a previous post that I did XML coding for Keeper of the Faiths models. I included in the readme file that it was for private use only - public useage people should notify me of this. I personally don't actually care about credit for some thing - but its nice for people to know what you did for people in the world.

 

Its not really a matter of greed or selfishness, you want this thing before the mod team who made it releases it, put your own time, effort, and sometimes money if its modelling, rigging, or skinning, into it.

 

Its a matter of perspective. Its greedy to want to hord things like new features that you find in the game that others haven't found - the only reason your doing this is because your trying to make a name for your self because of some pathetic ego trip. I believe in open source information and EAW code is there for us all to use and share in the community. Emphasis here on 'sharing'.. not to do so is selfish by definition.

 

If you dont realize though, who are these mods for??? They are for the community, not to be made and then locked up after completion.

 

Are they for the community ? - they are part of locked projects. They are not freely available to download to code in yourself into your own game. This means they are not openly available for the community and are only available as a 'mod' to people in the community. They are locked up after completion if you accept the fact that no 'other' mod can use those models once their mod was completed.

 

Like if LoW released every one of the models they are using, who would want the mod anymore?? only people who would probably download it would be the ones who cant code in the models that they have free released....

 

I am always interested in adding more features, models and code to my game. It keeps the game alive. If people get tired of doing this - perhaps they should go play some thing else and mod that instead.

 

Dont call me selfish or greedy, but it just isnt fair if someone does something and doesnt get recognition for something they have worked on, not the person who might release it coded first.

 

No one has SAID they shouldn't ! - people should get some form of recognition for what they do for the EAW community. People have to have a name associated with some thing so we know who did it. Its illogical to assume otherwise. I would expect some recognition for the code I did to get keepers models working in game for people. I did this because I wanted to share what I can do. Not because I am selfish.

 

consulor or Monkeybiz itd be like you posting a part of your code and then someone uses it and it seems they coded it in, not you that spent your time and effort one the code. I dont think youd like it would you?

 

Actually I DID spend my time and Effort coding. I do that every day of my life at the moment. I have written a lot of my own coding for mods that people have never seen in EAW - or have seen variations of. I wrote code into my game to put bunkers, Landing Platforms and ship yards in to my private files a good while before they were showing up in recent mods. I also added other ground units that are either not in any one else's mod - or have only just thought about it. Like what ? - try my own take on Elite Assault Troopers and Mech engineers - I did this months ago - people are just now doing these things in their mods.

 

I will remind you again the coding I did to get KOF's models working in game I shared with the community. Its available for people to use in their mods. So long as they are private.., I spent time coding those models in myself - using the EAW mod tools to read the models and make the correct coding for them. I tested them in game a few times also to make sure they worked. So I am afraid to tell you I am capable of doing my own coding in EAW - its just I SHARE my work. This is WHY I wont work for any mod team.

 

@MonkeyBiz

 

The problem is that modelers, skinners, and riggers are in woefully short supply. There just aren't very many in the community. Everyone and their dog is a coder. We all know our way around the XMLs. But it's the true creators that are in the highest demand. They get locked up by mod teams, and they're never seen again. Occasionally you get someone like Keeper of Faith, who released some decent free models, but even those were okay conversions of Warlords models.

 

This is quite true. But like with Making models xml coding not every one is good at it and make plenty of mistakes.. I have seen several coding mistakes in so called official mods. Then they rush out to make patches to fix the coding errors they over looked. Same with some Models too - does it mean some mods are 'rushed' ? - I dont know !

 

There are talented coders and modellers and skinners in the community. MOST of them are locked up in projects..Yes thats true as well.

Edited October 27, 2006 by jedi_consulor

[Lord_of_the_Sith]

I still believe that there is a "War of the Mods" here in the community.

Each mod team is delaying their mods to beat the others. I believe that mods like LOW are to be critized.

Nothing special have been done by them. More we need to see from the teams like DE and others.

Showing only images of converted ships doesn't mean nothing. They can easily photoshop the images.

Better would be to see someting released and functioning ingame showing up the real work.

I thrust more the mods which release frequently by upgrading instead of a big one which say bla bla bla and show nothing.

[jedi_consulor]

Well,.. LOW did at least bring out two mini mods with their take on the Executor and did add in Soontir Fell in V2 they have release some very limited demo's of what they are working on. I would have liked to see more movie's being made showing what they have done so far - a demo to show us all this is for some thing at the end of it all.

 

I can't really comment on any other 'big' mod out there because I haven't been following them lately. I don't doubt LOW will be a great expansion mod when it comes out - but will people really care ... ? - I think I last read it will now be for FOC anyway. ? -To that I feel disappointed. I was hoping this was to be released for the original EAW.

 

I don't think this topic should be aimed at anyone - as to wave a finger at certain groups to be blamed for the problems were having in this community, rather that anyone who feels decent enough to share their work publically to the world to share with us like Keeper of the Faith did to release models to us so we can code them in to our mods for ourselves.

 

I mean hey anyone willing to do what KOF did I will personally code their models for people in the community and release the code for people to use as I have done before. For people who can't do XML coding

[DragonShadow]

I still believe that there is a "War of the Mods" here in the community.

Each mod team is delaying their mods to beat the others. I believe that mods like LOW are to be critized.

Nothing special have been done by them. More we need to see from the teams like DE and others.

Showing only images of converted ships doesn't mean nothing. They can easily photoshop the images.

Better would be to see someting released and functioning ingame showing up the real work.

I thrust more the mods which release frequently by upgrading instead of a big one which say bla bla bla and show nothing.

 

And we would waste our time photoshopping images, why?

 

Sorry if we want to finish a mod before releasing it and get credit for our work. I feel quite sinful at the moment...

[jedi_consulor]

@Dragonshadow

 

Making a short movie speaks more volumes than any static picture can do

 

hm, well if it comes to choice I would prefer a completed mod project that is cleaned up and polished of any coding errors and models that don't work because you play in a higher resolution. I feel perhaps people who have to keep making patches to fix errors in their mods do this because it keeps a fan following for their mod - and it doesn't die through lack of interest. Although interest will ultimately die anyway. The other side of it would be to produce a great mod - no flaws, no errors of any kind - get good reviews and lasts a while in popularity until the next great project come along..? then dies.

 

I'd prefer a well rounded completed mod to one that is released in increments. HOWEVER. People creating smaller mods can do a good thing if they only take more time to fore fill their aims and goals in a mod by taking more time to finish a mod cleaning up coding errors and quality models that work for any one playing the game in ANY quality settings.

 

This is really moving off topic though ? - the point of the topic was to appeal to people who can make models to do them for us in the community so we can do our own coding for them.

[MonkeyBiz]

I think people are taking this the wrong direction. I'm not attacking Dark Empire or Legacy of War or Imperial Assault. It's our right as end users to modify the game however we want. They chose to create teams and do something better than any of us could do individually. However, because of the limited number of skinners and modelers, models should be treated like a public resource. Free for everyone to use, from the n00best n00b to the l33test l33t. We need to band together, as a community, and share our insights and discoveries with one another.

 

So I say, unbind your models and skins from their shackles! Let them run free amongst the community, so that all can profit from them and learn from their great works. We're all Star Wars fans here. We mod because we love the universe and we love this game. Let us join hands and march into a new age of cooperation and understanding, where every man, woman, Jedi, and non-gendered species can join hands, tentacles, claws, etc. and be equal, from the mightiest mod leader to the lowliest n00b.

[Mr.Crisp]

What about some outside help? How many other Star Wars games are out their? I mean I'm sure we could talk to some people that mod for Jedi Acadmey or Galaxies that could help us out. You know one big modding community.

[Empireftw]

Im sorry but realy just trying to make people feel pityful about not releasing thier models is just down right wrong i mean realy i know it requires 3ds max but do u realy deserve to have that model if u cant model your self worth any thing? Im sorry but realy u see a glorious vision of a bunch of mods coming out with all new models, i see alot of mods coming out with out giving credit for those models and the coding and everything else being crappy down grading those models.

[jedi_consulor]

m sorry but really just trying to make people feel pityful about not releasing thier models is just down right wrong i mean really i know it requires 3ds max but do u realy deserve to have that model if u cant model your self worth any thing? I'm sorry but really u see a glorious vision of a bunch of mods coming out with all new models, i see alot of mods coming out with out giving credit for those models and the coding and everything else being crappy down grading those models.

 

Your doing it AGAIN.!

 

None one is attacking anyone - trying to make anyone feel guilty. Its a simple debate - this is a forum people debate stuff. Period. People who enjoy living in a democratic country know what freedom of speech is, and that's what were expressing here.

 

We are NOT

 

Attacking People

 

Making people feel guilty about their mods (If you do feel such perhaps some one touched a nerve ? that you are feeling guilty about for some reason unknown to me)

 

OR arguing about people being credited for their work.

 

As far as I am concerned this topic is about none of this but has cropped up a few times being mentioned.

 

Are you seriously suggesting NO ONE is willing to carry on Keeper of the Faiths work for us in the community and release top quality models for us to code into our games ? - CREDIT ?! - yes KOF has plenty of that already and so will anyone else who helps carry his work on.

 

Please stop. keep on topic stop this paranoid idea of people attacking others. Were all friends here right ? - NO ONE is attacking people. Its a friendly debate to find people to help carry on what KOF were doing in the community. The fact that particular mods have been mentioned were off the cuff examples of things people are not happy about. - They must not be other wise they wouldn't of mentioned it. People are free to express and complain if they wish to..? aren't they ? well I live in a democratic country here we can

[MonkeyBiz]

1) People are getting their dander up. Stop it. Calm down.

2) Don't you like how I just used the word "dander"? I had a boss once that had a medic alert bracelet that says "Allergic to horse dander". I looked up "dander", and it turns out that it means "anger". So, I can understand why he would be allergic to angry horses.

3) I used Legacy of War and Dark Empire as they are the proverbial 800 pound gorillas in the room. They also happened to illustrate my point.

4) This is a community. A community shares. If the big mod teams are willing to release their models, then we as a community have a responsibility for improving the quality of our own releases. We have a responsibility to improve the quality of our code. We have a responsibility to have our own work reviewed by others. When we have better materials at our disposal, we have a responsibility to raise our own level of work.

 

I will gladly put my own coding skills to the test and hold myself to the same standard and offer anything I release publically up for community review first, before it's uploaded anywhere public.

[Empireftw]

You know maybe its just me but realy i would treat a model like a painting its not something u just give away its somthing u want to treasure.

 

And what your asking for im afraid isnt going to happen because this world is far from perfect.

[MonkeyBiz]

Is a good model art? Yes. Could you potentially print out a photoshopped copy of the model and frame it and put it on your wall? Yes.

 

But that's not what it's for. A model can be used by one person, or by many people. It's DESIGNED to be used. It's supposed to be shared.

[jedi_consulor]

You know maybe its just me but realy i would treat a model like a painting its not something u just give away its somthing u want to treasure.

 

And what your asking for im afraid isnt going to happen because this world is far from perfect.

 

A Painting is designed to be enjoyed by many people not just one person. A Painting is painted for the joy of creation and the pleasure of giving it to the world for others to enjoy and comment on. Sharing your work with people whether its for nothing - just for the joy of giving it to the world or for money - either way you share.

 

By definition of what your saying about a model not giving it away because you want to treasure it - no one wants to take it away from you - people want to enjoy what you did. Not the latter

 

The world is far from perfect - well that we all know but there are shining lights in the world who make it a better place One of them was the work KOF was doing. Sorry for keep mentioning him but - I wish we had more people like him.

[jedi_consulor]

1) People are getting their dander up. Stop it. Calm down.

2) Don't you like how I just used the word "dander"? I had a boss once that had a medic alert bracelet that says "Allergic to horse dander". I looked up "dander", and it turns out that it means "anger". So, I can understand why he would be allergic to angry horses.

3) I used Legacy of War and Dark Empire as they are the proverbial 800 pound gorillas in the room. They also happened to illustrate my point.

4) This is a community. A community shares. If the big mod teams are willing to release their models, then we as a community have a responsibility for improving the quality of our own releases. We have a responsibility to improve the quality of our code. We have a responsibility to have our own work reviewed by others. When we have better materials at our disposal, we have a responsibility to raise our own level of work.

 

I will gladly put my own coding skills to the test and hold myself to the same standard and offer anything I release publically up for community review first, before it's uploaded anywhere public.

 

I am far from being angry myself, just want this to be a friendly debate. This is what a forum was designed for ? Oh and I agree with you as usual in this topic about your other points. I can't argue against them because like you other people in this community want the same thing as you