How could an A-Wing take out an SSD?

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

I am sure you all remember the end of ROTJ. In case you don't let me refresh you're memory, During the battle above indoor an A-Wing was shot and it spun out of control right on to the bridge of the SSD, The Executioner.

 

 

Now that you know what I am talking about you can help me figure out how the SSD went down with one A-Wing crashing into it, bridge or not. The engines weren't hit, and shouldn't the shields have been up before it happened?

 

 

Help me understand this Mystery.

[Guest Scathane]

First off, the shields of the Executor were not operational when the A-wing penetrated the bridge. The official Star Wars website clearly states this:

 

The Executor was a prime target for repeated barrages from Alliance vessels. Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields.
 
Full article: Super Star Destroyer

You might ask how that was possible because it has been argued before that the Rebel Fleet should have been crushed at Endor... Well, the Star Wars Technical Commetaries have the following entry:

 

According to the Williamson Classic STAR WARS comic strips, the Executor's shielding defences were one of its most formidable features. The ship was considered virtually unassailable in the years between the battles of Yavin and Hoth. During the Battle of Endor, Admiral Ackbar realised that the mighty flagship could be defeated if his Calamarian cruisers subjected the shields to an especially concerted barrage, resulting in shield failure and exposure of sensitive structures (eg. bridge and scanner globes) to pinpoint starfighter strafing.
 
In the present literature there are few quantitative indications of the Executor's precise shield strength. We know that a deliberate and concentrated bombardment by somewhere between half a dozen and two dozen Mon Calamari cruisers caused shield failure within a matter of minutes. Unfortunately we can't quantify the shield capacity directly because we don't yet know the maximum yield of Mon Calamari warships' guns.
 
Full article: Star Wars technical Commentaries: Super Star Destroyers - Shields

Still, as you stated quite correctly: why was just one A-wing enough, bridge or not; the engines weren't even hit. Well, the bold print above already hints at what it was that happened... The official Star Wars website puts it as follows:

 

A wayward A-wing starfighter, crippled and out of control, spun directly into the Executor's bridge. Its control systems destroyed, the Executor was embraced by the second Death Star's gravity well, and the two collided in a colossal explosion that destroyed the flagship.
 
Full article: Super Star Destroyer

So the engines were functional but the controls to them were off line, because of which the engines fell out. But wouldn't such a powerful as well as important ship have some backup or something? Indeed it had, as the Star Wars Technical Commentaries tell us:

 

The Lusankya had an auxiliary bridge elsewhere in the ship, and since she was built at the same time as Executor, Lord Vader's vessel probably had a backup bridge as well. (Obviously the officers and crew of Executor were unable to reroute propulsion control to this bridge before Executor descended into the hull of the second Death Star.)
 
Full article: Star Wars technical Commentaries: Super Star Destroyers - Bridges

So, does this more or less answer your question?

Edited July 14, 2003 by Scathane

[AceRogue1]

that does it 4 me

also if u didnt know, Star Wars is a MOVIE

Hard to believe ii know but its true.

Also the SW galaxy doesnt work the same as ours, you know, with the Force, spaceships ar common and stuff like that

[ADarkJedi44]

I know i understand now.

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

Thanks scath, for clearing that up.

[AceRogue1]

quick n easy!

[Trejiuvanat]

In Heir to The Empire, Thrawn offers a possible thoery as to why the best wrewers and officers in the Imperial Navy failed to regain control of the Executor. Apparently the imperial soldiers were motivated alone by Palpatine's dark powers. After Palpatine died, there was a moment of confusion and disorientation, after the mental grip that Palpatine had over them disappeared. That caused other than the incompetence of the officers of the Executor, also the TIE Fighter incompetence that allowed the Falcon and WEdge, although they flew in slower craft to outfly Tie Interceptors, and the destruction of various other Star Destroyer in engagements they usually wouldn't have had trouble with.

[vakundok]

There is a theory about that the destruction of the Executor was caused by engine misfire not by the gravity well of the DS.

Problems with the gravity well theory:

1: The gravity of the Endor is stronger than the gravity of the DS2. (Otherwise, the Endor would orbit around the DS2, not the DS2 around Endor.) So, the Executor should have fallen toward the Endor.

2: It started to spin. The speed of this spinning (actually its acceleration) was too high too be caused by normal gravity.

Things supporting the engine misfire:

1: The novelization mentions that the Executor had maneouvering/control problems prior to the destruction of the bridge.

2: The ISD that was hit by the ion cannon moved in a quite similar way. And being taken out by an ion cannon is quite similar to loosing the bridge.

 

The fact that the crew was unable to regain control in time can be explained by the possible failure of the inertia compensation system.

 

However this is only my opinion.

[dude21]

Ok guys everything is quite good written here but do not forget:

"Its a just Movie"

And I do not think the original story employs with that problem just the Fans had found some reasons for a few theories.

[Guest Scathane]

Very nice, vakundok, very nice! I hadn't heared those yet. It could be, though, that the Executor was closer to the DSII than it was to the Endor moon, making the relative gracvitational force of the DSII larger than that of the Endor Moon.

 

With regard to the overal demoralisation of the troops, I might add that the fleet incorporated one communications ship for coordination purposes. This ship was one of the first to be taken out. This could also account for chaotic reaction on the Imperial side...

[Trejiuvanat]

And the lack of a clear command hierarchy. Palpy had given some instructions, and Vader was absent...

After Piett and the Executor were gone, and the DS along with some of the Grand Admirals... There was no one to listen to.

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

I think if thrawn was in command of the fleet above endor things would have been very different, indeed.

[Trejiuvanat]

I think if anyone had been in command it would have been different.

Piett was obeying orders from Palpy, but Palpy wasn't paying as much attention on the battle as he was putting on Luke, the same goes for Vader.

The Grand Admiral apparently didn't have a great effect on the battle, one of them was more concerned about Palpy than about the Rebel fleet (the force-sensitive one). Piett didn't know what to do, and with both the Executor and the Death Star gone who would they listen to? Pellaeon? He wasn't even captain at the time... The Grand Admiral that was more worried about himself than about leading the Imperial forces?

Sure, Thrawn might have come up with a smart tactic move to counter the Ackbar Slash, I doubt that Palpy would have brought him to Endor.

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

Perhaps, but even Piett could have done more than he had orders or not! When you are being attacked, like that, Orders can be bent. Especially when you have NO contact from high up.

[Trejiuvanat]

He had a DS next to him... He'll expect the DS to do the job... He was fairly incompetent at the end...

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

True, but it could only fire what once every 20, 30 minutes. that leaves a large window for rebel attacks.

[dude21]

Why does everyone doubt at Piets competence?

He is /was a quite good admiral who crushed the rebel forces over endor eith just loos the executor and a few smal ships

[Guest Scathane]

He had a DS next to him... He'll expect the DS to do the job... He was fairly incompetent at the end...

 

True, but it could only fire what once every 20, 30 minutes. that leaves a large window for rebel attacks.

 

I have to agree with Antilliles on this one, Trej... The Death Star wasn't designed for engaging fleets.

 

Why does everyone doubt at Piets competence?

He is /was a quite good admiral who crushed the rebel forces over endor eith just loos the executor and a few smal ships

[Trejiuvanat]

True, but the Executor wasn't designed to attack multiple Mon Cal cruisers at once... much less to defend itself from that many. It was a Command Cruiser, many Admiral disliked the idea of wasting money on such a ship whne they could have built about ten or twelve Impstars.

Piett was also very authority-minded.

"I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has somethign else planned for the Rebel scum. We are only to keep them from escaping."

He had been to told to do nothing, when the Rebels started to engage the Impstar at point blank range Piett had to improvise a defense because he didn't know what to do, he's fearful of the Emperor. His incompetence...

Dude pointed out that he just lost the Executor and some support vessels. just the loss of the executor was reason enough to call him incompetent. His decisions were late. As for the support vessels they were Imperial Star Destroyer... How could anyone just lose that many Impstars to a handful of Rebels with Neb Frigate, CorCorvettes and some Mon Cals, and not to mentio that the DS destroyed two of the biggest Mon Cals at Endor...

[Guest Admiral_Antilles]

Well thats all good, but I thought there were only a handful of Mon Cal's to start with. And there were plenty of SD to take care of that fleet, just not enough brains higher up workin.

[dude21]

I believe to remind me that the rebels lost many ships at the begin of the battle.

Just after the command of Calrissian they got to stay closer to the Imps the deathstar couldnt fire anymore, but the SDs shot the rebels down.

So tho only chance for the rebels was to take out the Executor, so they focus fire on that ship and finished it of with the discussed A-Wing.

After that event the battle changes to the rebels.

But at least many Imp Ships could make the jump into Hyperspace.

[Sith_Lord]

Yes they did finished it off, but it was an accident, i don't think that Green Leader (the A-wing) crashed into the Executor for fun, it seemed that it was hit, and was uncontrollable, it was spinning and the guy, i forgot his name screamed his lungs out, you wont do that when you have your ship under control. So the A-wing crashed into the SSD by accident, wich was a good thing for the rebels

[R2-Opus2]

I had heard what Scathane had pointed out too, that together with the out-of-control Executor and the DS' gravity wiping it out. As to the ship not having an auxilary control....C'mon, this isn't Star Trek where they got backups for backups

 

Incidentally, here's my take on the design scematics of the SSD from that other thread if people missed it (and take note of the Chief Engineer's famous last words:)

 

-Darth Vader's Meditation Room

-Bridge (complete with two of them shield dingleberry generators - design flaw #1)

-Hanger Bay

-Officer's Morgue

-Enlisted Men's Morgue

-Morgue for anyone else

-Taxidermy Wing (to show off Vader's past handiwork. Don't be shocked by the electronic voice coming out of Ozzel as his visage greets you at the door)

-Stormtrooper Barracks

-Ministry of Silly Walks - Restricted For TIE Pilots Only (seriously, watch ANH again, the scene where vader tells his wingmen "several fighters have broken formation etc.", watch how them pilots walk after him. I swear one of them had to be Sherman Helmsly from The Jeffersons)

 

-Auxilary Control Room - "Sheeeyeah Riiight!!! We don't need no stinkin' auxilary control room." - Famous last words of the Executor's Chief Engineer (design flaw #2)

 

 

I think it all boils down to the Imps abundance of overconfidence, their disbelief in such concepts as camoflage, and their clumsy walking...otherwise they would have backup systems for important functions, like the frickin' bridge goin' out! Or electric wheelchairs for when their pilots aren't flying

[Sith_Lord]

Well, the imperials are overconfident, you can make that out by the way their officers talk about the rebels.

 

The rebels found their lack of faith disturbing