Never judge a book by its cover

[Ghostly_Substance]

Well here is something interesting and yes I know most of you know this if you actually stayed in school but I came across this video in a post on another forum.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loHEhCf9h34

 

To paint so well means your a monster? Actually no if you call someone a monster biasly then you really lack knowledge and should be forced to stay in school and think for yourself. Everybody looks at Hitler and calls him a monster, a devil, and all those evil names but seriously try and think for yourself and look at the other side and much deeper then "Right so he was evil because he was mentally ill, so what". This only shows your ignorance and even you using the word "Nazi" that it is now hollow with no meaning at all. You using the world Nazi for insults constantly just makes the word hollow like the word Freedom today.

 

Ok then if it wasn't for Hitler we wouldn't have made Jet Engines, Rockets  :, near perfect Submarines, great engineering, very smart scientists, and possibly more techniques and ways to build objects. Well maybe we could but not as quickly (Sorry had to edit this since in my anger I didn't clarify).

 

Ok if your thinking i'm trying to stick up for Hitler i'm not i'm just trying to look at both sides while you guys look at only the one side which we were taught in school. "OMG Hitler started WW2 and wanted to take over the world so we destroyed his army and now the world is safe" and then we get the Americans saying  "If we haven't intervened the world would have been under the German rule". A pack of lies with propaganda.....Even without the US and Canada's help it might have taken longer and more lives but we still would have crushed Germany but probably not as effectivly in numbers.

 

Also anybody could be the next "Hitler" since Adolf had good painting skills but got rejected and had many reasons to enter politics. Hitlers not super human and neither are we since we are all on the same level so if he makes those kinds of mistakes then so can we. *Also the paintings Hitler made was of high level yet he got dismissed/rejected because he couldn't draw/paint people but a good painter which is better the most modern day paintings today (*edited in)

 

Sorry about this but i'm just seriously pissed off after seeing this video and how people just look at one side of things. I know Cheese will try and crack a joke but i'm serious here. If i'm still disatisfied I might talk about the French sterotype -.-

Edited September 26, 2006 by Ghostly_Substance

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

hey, Hitler was an evil man you can't argue against that yes, i agree without the 2WW we wouldn't have half of the Technology we had. but you just have to look at the amount of Anti-Semitism and the fact that there was the Night of Long Knives and the Night of broken Glass. also there has been evidence that he was the one who used caused the Reichstag fire before the elections which he used to restrict the votes for his opponents.

 

(PS if you say i don't know what i'm talking about then i will hunt you down and slap you i'm a history student! i have studied Hitler from every angle and answer essays on him and his rise to power for 3 years in a row!)

[Ghostly_Substance]

So your saying that you choose to be evil the second you are born or you turn evil like Anakin?  : You make it sound like us humans choose to be evil as soon as we are born and start creating death plans for taking over the world,right..............

 

Well you maybe a history buff and same with me but that doesn't prove you can be the smartest person on the subject since you also have to look through biasness, false information (tons), and of course not accurate information which requires you to think on another base.

[Guest]

Time to crack some jokes! just kidding  ;D

 

I only know what they taught me about WWII in 10th grade and from my friend who is WW2 nut, and I read a couple books that were pretty neat about WW2. Hitler didn't seem much differnt than your average dictator......except for the part about him trying to kill all the jews, i can't think of a good reason to even try and exterminate a whole race/religion of people, wait a second.... jewish isn't a relgion is it? or maybe that's just the wrong name for it I guess. In fact from one of them "The Longest Day" I learned that Hitler was a vegatarian 

 

As for being evil.... eh probably he did try and kill the jews but you call him insane because of him being an artist, all of the famous artits were thought to be insane.  : Like what's his name? Van Gogh? the guy who cut off his ear and mailed it to someone!? 

[Ghostly_Substance]

Missing the point -.-

 

What i'm trying to say is that even a "Good guy" can become a bad guy and people think that you choose to be evil the second you are born. I mean who makes up these stuff that then ends up getting people brainwashed? Oh yes Hitler and Stalin and the like were evil but they still have that good human aspect in them to live normally.

 

Ok then lets look at it this way, Cain (sorry picked a name out of the hat) is one of the good guys (or to be fair neutral) when he was born. After awhile he got interested in playing games, watching TV and modding for the games he liked. Later on he came across a saying in the game that related to evil which sounded like a good saying at the time "The Strong prey on the weak and the weak hinders the strong". So Cain privatly starts drawing plans to kill those who are disabled and make the strong even stronger and brighter. He continues modding but a new way of life is shown in him since he now lives by this saying that he draws the weak dieing and the strong ruling in his mods for the games he plays. After awhile someone tells him his mod sucks so he quits and then goes into politics and restructures the government (work with me here -.- ) and then goes on slaughtering all those who are disabled and "weaklings" to bring up the societies IQ and to stop hindering the strong from the weak. Someone would see this as evil and not focusing at why he was "evil" and how he became like that so in the history books we see someone labled a wacko when they lived a normal life until they became "evil".

 

Yes yes I know your going to biasly focus on the extermination of the jews and disabled people of Hitler but please i'm focusing on before this when he was still "human" since you guys can't get that through your heads. Yes I know opinions can't be changed but I just want a good arguement to get across and discuss it unbiasly for once. Yes yes I know i'm only focusing on his good side but we focused on his "bad" side since day one in history class.

[Guest]

You know what else about history classes?

 

In my history class we had to go through the history book and stuff for a boring assignment one day about WW2. There was one sub-chapter called "The Atrocricies of the War" (spell check didn't help me much there) It said that atrocrices were Hitler killing the jews and all of that stuff Stalin did. Then I'm like wait a second......... Shouldn't dropping atom bombs on Japan be an atrocricie? Is that not an unspeakable thing to do? Instantly vaporize and entire city of civilians? Obviously the american authors didn't want to make the U.S. look bad 

[Jedi Master Tofu]

Hmmmmm, very good point. But the Americans did it to end a war that was killing innocent people, and it was the only way to break the Japanese honor. What Hitler did was inhuman. He would starve these people, use them for testing on biological weapons and other things, they were in the meantime given horrible living conditions, whip them, make them change religion, murder them when they were so useless they couldn't even walk. And when they were dead, they would throw them into piles of hundreds and burn them, bury them in masses, or dump them someplace where they thought no one would find them. The Americans dropped the bomb because they were trying to end the Japanese war machine too. Japans ways of torture were just as bad as the German Concentration camps, but they also did it to the American troops, not just the Jewish. At least the Germans gave the Allies a little bit of respect and didn't do what they did to the Jews. The Japs would behead the Americans, once they burned their flesh and whipped them 1000 times.

[Ghostly_Substance]

America wanted to test out its new toy called "The Nuke" so they went over there to prove how cowardly they are since the war was pretty much on Japanese soil. I mean you could easily surround the Japanese with the Russians up top. And of course you could just missle them since Germany had the techonology to do so and Americans looted what Germany had and claimed it for their own and obviously you should know this since winners take all.

 

Right......i'm not gonna repeat myself anymore but yes I can't change opinion. Germans had respect yes and would assist those in need only if given permission to do so like the U-boat captains. If a fellow soldier was watching another that was evil then you would miss-treat the dead body (but then again that might of been allied propoganda). Germany picked up allied troops from a sunken Destroyer and saved them, burn the wet cloths and gave them towels. Later they found themselves in the camp but not as brutally harmed as the others but only as a prisoner of war. Also if you had a prisoner of war even before WW1 you'd still be misstreated so don't get any bright ideas that only Germany misstreated their captives.

 

Well for the Japanese to behead the Americans. Germany was more of a peaceful yet warlike nation with Hitler around since if he actually made his troops kamikazi then you know Hitler doesn't give a crap about his army but of course he does. For the Japanese its either Win with everything you have or die trying but if you lose your allowing Japan fall into enemy hands. That worked but only until the Japanese numbers started to dwindle a bit and their technology was mostly focused on other stuff like a prototype Japanese Submarine aircraft carrier submarine (Look in Pacific Storm allies, Cool screens thread and you'll see a green plane on a ship).

 

USA got their joyful patriotic laugh but at a price to cause radioactivity on Japanese soil and to get other nations to build nukes. Japanese of course is still alive and stronger then USA on all bases except land mass. I mean look at em after the war they sold thousands of modified radios and somehow managed to get from radios to handheld games to Playstations to PSP to PS3's. They also perfected their anime skills which Cheesinator here is having fun laughing at. I don't blame cheese since it shows why half of the Japanese stuff never arrives here in America since theres people at him that just don't quite like anime the way the fans and Japanese see it. To close this off i'll just say "Don't be ignorant and think twice on what you learn and make sure you see both sides of it instead of one (Examples: Cowardly France or Evil Hitler both lies)."

[Guest]

heheheehheeheh france heheheheheh ;D

 

where would we get all the jokes about the french?  ;D

 

I don't think that all the jokes about the french being cowardly..... it's just that the french suck. The only war against the british that they ever won was the american revolutionary war

[Ghostly_Substance]

Go back to school Cheese.

 

[12:07] {PFF}Substance: hopeless people

[12:07] {PFF}Substance: I just said how aliens could adapt and someone is still clueless

[12:07] {PFF}Substance: wtf

[12:08] nightsmagic: who cares.. anyways i gtg back to school see ya

 

Stuff like this makes me wonder if people actually have a brain. Just saying who cares and going to school? How does that make sense? You don't care yet you go to school? I was talking about how aliens could adapt on earth if they do travel here and the rest is just thoughts. This guy I always say is an idiot is since everything he says is that of a noob, I'll explain later.

 

ok now about what Cheese wrote

I don't think that all the jokes about the french being cowardly..... it's just that the french suck. The only war against the british that they ever won was the american revolutionary war

 

So your gonna call Canada the next weakest country in the world? We should be peacekeepers yet we allow USA to rule over us. It makes us seem we have no political defences that forms barriers and it turns Canada from a helpful country into a war like country. France however now is staying neutral in fights since they have better stuff to attend to. Calling them weak just for a stereotypical reason just proves you need to be shoved back into school. So surrendering to the Nazi Germany who outnumbered and out-teched France was cowardly?

 

Silly people and their silly brains and their silly stereotypes. I could say that all people who call themselves Cheese are idiots just because they say stupid things but I would just be stereotyping when at least five other cheeses could be smart (talking about nicknames). Anyways if your going to say a country is weak or praise it at least provide a reason why so we know where your coming from and those who read my reasons know where I am coming from and where I am going. Anyways I gotta cut this short so you got lucky.

[VZaknaril]

Ghostly, have you ever read Mein Kampf (My Struggle)?  These are the words of a genious.  Hitler was, no doubt, a social virtuoso.  He knew how to manipulate the people.  He knew how to use propaganda.  But make no mistake...the man was evil.  In Mein Kampf he outlines his childhood and how his hatred for Communism and Judaism was formed.  His main thesis was "The Jewish Peril" which spoke of an elleged Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.  Hitler's racial policies culminated in the genocide of 11 million people, including about 6 million Jews.  11 MILLION!  That more than the number of deaths in the American Civil War (approx. 600,000 Americans), Viatnam War (approx. 1,393,600 Total), and Korea (approx. 1,912,000 Total) combined!

 

I understand you want to see things from both sides, I don't blame you there.  America is just as guilty of propaganda as Hitler Germany was.  You have to consider a number of sources.  But what source is more credible then the words out of Hitler's own mouth??  Partner there is no doubt that Hitler had talent.  He just used his talents towards destructive and gruesome ends.

 

I won't argue the events surrounding the Japanese involvement in World War 2.  I think the Japanese fought with honor and were probably our most worthy adversary ever.  Their strike at Pearl Harbor was brilliantly planned and executed, and struck a crippling blow to our naval superiority.  And while there were civilians present at Pearl Harbor (approx. 68 killed, 35 wounded), it doesn't compare to the number killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki (approx. 214,000).  I think it was one of our biggest military mistakes ever. 

 

We can argue that World War 2 aided in technology (which it did)...but most major wars do.  If WW2 hadn't happened, some other war would have.  There is no way to justify Hitler's actions.  If the Holocaust hadn't occured, then maybe he wouldn't have been looked upon in such a way.  Take away that and Hitler was just another Alexander The Great...a conquering military strategist. 

[Ghostly_Substance]

]V[Zaknaril  I understand where your going but as I tried saying three times before that i'm looking before he went into politics and everybody always points their arguements at the holocost which is DURING. Stop going to the holocost since it may have happened but it is also up in the air like with the 9/11 issue and i'm not talking about Hitlers campaign.

 

Now then as I also said before is that humans aren't born evil unless the enviroment suggests we should. Ages 2-13 is the suggested range of kids listening to their friends advise which also dictates how they act. If Hitler had good friends he would have had positive remarks since look at his paintings it shows no horrible emotions. I may not be an art expert but I know of a good drawing and painting when I see one. If Hitler was also praised for what he was doing (good deeds) and punished for his bad deeds (such as bullying) then he was human. Too much bull crap in this day and age that you literally need a brain filter to filter out the garbage they sometimes teach @ school (Big bang theory anybody?). I'll stop with Hitler now  and hold onto my other cards.

 

I also said before that America wanted to test out its new nuke or atom bomb that they got WAAAY to trigger happy for their own good. If your going to use it at least make sure you know of the long term damages as much as the short term damages. Apperently life forms hold on to it longer then rock and concrete so if they burn all the trees and plants they can replant it from other areas and bring it there. Well they could do that unless the radiation is so low that you don't need to go to drastic measures. If the Japanese really wanted to get rid of radioactivity they would be working on a prevention program to stop such a crazy thing from happening ever again.

 

I'll stop now and see what kind of response i'll get now.

[Guest]

: Still in school. Sorry to dissapoint you. Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if they didn't have some truth behind them.  : aisde from napoleon the french are not known for winning wars, in fact they're probably known for not winning wars. But it's not entirely their fault, they are squished in the middle of Europe in the midst of all of these other countries that have a history of not getting along with each other. And why would I call canada weak? It's only 2 states from where I live and I don't know much about canada. Except for that song from south park or something called "Blame Canada". I know a couple people from canada and this what i have learned from them Canada=Hockey. On the other hand the country that is 1 state below me Mexico, I think I know too much about because about 1/3 of the population of my city are illiegal mexican immigrants. And I learned that mexico obviusly sucks. If it didn't sucks there wouldn't be so many mexicans illigeally crossing the border into the U.S. all the time. Buuuuuutt......... since the topic seems to be hitler we can get back on topic.......... Uhhhhhhhhhh..... I don't think I have anything else to say about hitler. Except that in runescape in bleeps out his name whenever you try to type it. Oooh. And on ESO online I tried to name my german explorere hitler but it wouldn't let me. And he is a vegatarian. You gotta watch those vegatarians they might try to go start another holocoust.  ;D

[VZaknaril]

Hitler got into politics in 1921 (German Workers' Party) and wrote Mein Kampf in 1925.  His views were clearly spelled out long before he was ever in a position to see them done.  I think this is proof enough of his demeanor.  I will agree that noone is born "evil".  All children are inherently innocent until they learn to be otherwise.  The bottom line though, is that the man's views and intentions were set in motion long before he was Chancellor. 

 

In Hitler's case it wasn't necessarily his friends that influenced him to become evil, it was the books he read; Lanz von Liebenfels an anti-Semite, Karl Lueger the founder of the Christian Social Party, Georg Ritter von Schönerer the leader of the pan-Germanic Away From Rome! movement.  If you take a look at the ideology going on during these times, especially from the previously named authors, you will find a clear path to Hitler's ultimate actions.

 

I hope you can see that I am not forming my conclusions based on a high-school education or half truths.  And I am definitly not saying that the man was a monster from the day he was born.  He had ideologies and "principles", if you will, and would not compromise them.  Uncompromising men are easy to admire (to quote Braveheart).  The world judges Hitler based on certain events of his life and there is nothing anyone can do about that.  I am like you though, Ghostly, in that I want to know more and form my own conclusions...

[Guest]

wow, they taught you all that in high school? musta been like an "advanced" class or whatever. Sweeeet 

[VZaknaril]

Actually you must have missed the first sentance in the last paragraph.  Please re-read

[Guest]

oh............... ehehehehhehehe  ;D

 

If you did learn all that in high shcool it would be like.......... wow..............

[VZaknaril]

Nah, History major in college (Pre-Law).  Most of it is useless info until a conversation like this comes up