Guest Scathane Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 You're right glandry. I shall be paying extra attention tonight, for ROTJ is on television in the Netherlands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_La_forge Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Roasted Ewok..Mmmmmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I wonder what it tastes like? Chicken??? The force is strong in my family. No, Luke, I am your father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trejiuvanat Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I don't hink so... More like mammal meat... Cow... Pig... Tepezcuintle... Take your pick. Coruscant fell because Ysanne Isard allowed the Reb to have it... Still luck and RebEd made it possible for Antilles to get it. After Endor there was no command structure... Pellaeon (a Captain) ordered the withdrawal. Most Grand Admirals were killed iwthin two or three years, and the upper echelon would start to prey one on another... Isard vs. Pestage, etc.... http://www.swrebellion.com/~jahled/Trej/banner.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I understand what you're saying...... Apart form the Tepezcuintle, that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Now, I'm not a military expert, so correct me if I'm wrong, SOCL but if you look at the nature of the Endor Shield generator, and its tactical surroundings, you know one thing for sure: IF there's going to be aqn enemy mission directed against it, it's going to be a sabotage mission by elite forces. If that were the case, I wouldn't defend my base with a dozen tanks and a few motorcycles... That base would be heavily guarded by troops. Scath, you're 100% correct here. I made this point in another thread, and this is what makes ROTJ so stupid. On Naboo, when he hardly had any power, Palpy was intent on killing every Gungan on the planet. A planet with little or no strategic value really. However, on Endor, the shield generator is virtually unguarded! What kind of military dork thought up the defenses? The forest should have been cleared for miles around! Hello, have you ever heard of barbed-wire? The Empire lost because GL needed them to lose. I just wish he hadn't made them look so stupid. Thats not fully right here guys because if u want to hide a base, and the Endor Base was a hided base of the Empire, u wouldnt take too many troops there because it will be too much stir there U will try to defend with the lowest garrison as possible "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Thats not fully right here guys because if u want to hide a base, and the Endor Base was a hided base of the Empire, u wouldnt take too many troops there because it will be too much stir there U will try to defend with the lowest garrison as possible Contrary to what many television shows, movies and novels make one believe, military forces do not tend to hide secret military bases in plain sigth and in densely populated areas. Insteda, the tend to clear perimeters miles and miles around as to create a buffer for the actual base. Secondly, a base maybe secret as hell, but that doesn't give them any reason to keep these bases lightly garrisoned: there's a reason for the base to be secret, so the defenses are always high... Moreover, dude21, how many troops and fighters do you think were there on the unfinished DS II? With regard to secrecy and detection, the extra troops on the Endor moon wouldn't have made a lot of difference.  Han: There's nothing like taking the Falcon out for a spin, don't ya think, Luke?Luke: Well... I was planning to go to Toschi station to....Hand: Shut up, kiddo! What's that big superstructure hanging next to that moon?Luke: Dunno...Han: Me neither... Oh well!Luke: Han, don't you think there's a lot of troop activity on that yonder moon?Han: Holy nerfherder! You're right Luke! There must be something fishy going on down there! Let's report this to Mothma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Yes and the Endor moon wasnt a densely populated place. They wanted to make a small base there with not many excitement. Therefore is the Endor moon a suitable place.Maybe there were a huge garrison on the DS II but it was a small unimportant rim sector, so nobody will find it.And the DS is the one side and what is the connection to Endor?The Endor Base was hidden but not the Deathstar II. "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Exactly... So let me get this straight: you're with us when we say that the Sanctuary Mooon was under-defended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 No I think it was a small hidden Base which nobody should know aboutand there was a small garrison there because they dont expect an Attack. But the Rebels know about and made a surprise Attack. Military acceptable. "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 No I think it was a small hidden Base which nobody should know aboutand there was a small garrison there because they dont expect an Attack. But the Rebels know about and made a surprise Attack. Military acceptable. Breaking it down, this is the kind of logic you seem to follow:Â 1. A base is secret because something of strategis or tactical importance is going on there (in this case the DS II) Â 2. You know there is a risk you won't keep the base a secret (a risk you always run) Â 3. You don't expect an attack??????!!!!!!! Â 4. Military acceptable??????!!!!!!! Of course not!!! It is strategically and tactically completely unsound!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 1. If u want to build a outpost, u build a fortress with huge garrison und many publicity there. That everybody who wants to attack must calculate high casualties.Thats the DeathStar. 2. If u want to build an important but secret base, then u build a small outpost with low garrison, because u dont want them to be attacked. Just for the emergency a small garrioson there. U will do everthing to keep that base hidden. Also its possible that the enemy will not use up its resources to attack the small and unimportant base. So u can hide a important thing at a for the enemy unimportant place. Thats the secret base at Endor moon. U dont understand "Military accaptable" ??!? "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Of course I understand military acceptable. It's just that I think you're misktaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 And what do u not understand of my description? "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 And what do u not understand of my description? I understand everything of your description. I just don't agree with your views on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 Dude21 has a point about secrecy, unfortunatly, his facts do not apply in this case: PALPATINE ALLOWED THE REBELS TO LEARN THE LOCATION OF THE SHIELD GENERATOR. Endor was a trap. A trap that was supposed to destroy the Rebellion once and for all. And the fact remains that GL made the most important ambush in history of the Galactic Empire set by a token force of badly aiming stormtroopers. By the way, I've seen just one AT-AT on the ground (it even wasn't in combat) - one ISD carries 20, which means there were AT LEAST 500 AT-ATs in the system during the battle. The Imperials just didn't use them. Not too mention over 30 000 Stormtroopers on the DS and the fleet. It may be just me, but I don't think Han Solo, his 30 comrades and a bunch of hairy two-feet beasts slaughtered 20 000 stormtroopers down there...  The forces WERE IN THE SYSTEM. Lucas just didn't want to use them because the ending had to be a happy one... There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glandry Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 You`re right, Lucas suffers from TGGMW Syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Okay, let's finish off this Endor's moon garrison now! I presented the problem to Colonel Peterson (active U.S. Army officer), soon to be chief of staff here at Fort Campbell (makes him the fourth highest person on an Army base of over 5,000 personnel), and he decided to comment on the subject. First off, he says that ALL secret military bases, though it would seem logical to keep a small garrison, have garrisons that are either the size of a normal garrison (quite large) or more so. Generally, secret bases have garrisons that exceed those of public bases and their defenses are generally a lot higher, as well. A good example is Fort Campbell during the height of the Cold War. In the back of Fort Campbell, nuclear weapons were stored in bunkers (which are not cleared and one can see) and back then they were secret and completely hidden, but even so, the entire division (5000+ personnel), plus another brigade (900+ personnel), plus another whole division a few miles away (anotehr 5000+ personnel) were guarding the weapons...and still, it was secret and barely ANYONE knew it existed. My point, secret bases exist, but it is miltiarily correct and militaryily accpetable to have no less than the amount of personnel already stationed to the base. Here's a simpler point: secret bases have HUGE garrisons with MANY, MANY, MANY defenses and lines of patrols. That explanation was rather scetchy, so ask questions as needed and I'll ellaborate.  By the way, this thread is going in a pattern (you notice this if you read it all, like I did) where we discuss why, then what if, then post-ROTJ, then Thrawn, then back to why. Interesting.... SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trejiuvanat Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Palpy said that he had a legion of his best troops on the planet... So where did they go... Igorimp posted an approximate of AT-AT and stormtrooper, the stormie commanders must have been the best of Palpy (probably Royal Guards on stormie duty.) Han's commandos and his Ewok Death Commandos didn't deal with them. Only At-St where in the battle... So where were the AT-ATs? Where were the rest of troopers? And the Imperials knew of the group of rebels in the forest, Luke had turned himself over hadn't he? and Vader had allowed the garrison commander to look for them. Again TGGMW Syndrome has attackes. There might have been a small chance that Han and Co. actually managed to sabotage the shield generator, but then they probably should have died... http://www.swrebellion.com/~jahled/Trej/banner.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Again TGGMW Syndrome has attackes.Well, I'm glad people have come to realize and acknowledge the reality and existance behind "The Good Guy(s) Must Win" Syndrome. There might have been a small chance that Han and Co. actually managed to sabotage the shield generator, but then they probably should have died...Either from the expolsion or from that invisible legion of stormtroopers. I mean, one can argue the AT-ATs and the legion could have been miles away, but a nuclear explosion that harms nothing outside a 30-foot radius is rather hard to miss and were I the ground commander, I would have gone to investigate. In the process, I probably would have "accidentally" stepped on the Rebels and thsoe Ewoks too. Then again, had I been the Imperial ground commander at the Battle of Endor....  Han throws his bag at an Imperial lacky, who screams the famous "Ah!" and falls down the needless shaft in Endor shield generator building. In comes a platoon of stormtroopers, led by none other than General Socl.Socl aims blaster at Han. "You Rebel scum..." Lowers blaster and takes a step back. "Execute th--""Wait!" Han protests. "This goes against TGGMW Syndrome!""Wa-wa-wa," Socl mocks Han. "Like I give a damn. Execute them!"Stromtroopers kill Han, Leia, Chewie, and the rest inside.General Socl goes outside, bodies being dragged by stormtroopers in the rear of the platoon to the open area where lie the bodies of the rest of the Rebel commando team."Excellent, now--""I say, I say! Over here!" a prissy voice echoes in the forest. "Were you looking for me?!"Imperials lok up to see a prissy gold protocol droid waving stupidly."Get those two down here!" a lieutenant orders a squad of stormtroopers."You fool!" Socl shouts, scolding the lieutenant. "Stop, stormtroopers! There's an easier way." Socl takes turns to a nearby AT-ST. "Shoot them!"The AT-ST driver disappears into the walker, turns the "head" and opens fire with a barrage of lasers, destroying the infamous droid duo.Suddenly the air fills with the echo of hoots as Ewoks leap up and fire their twig arrows at the Imperials.The Imperials hold their ground, the arrows bouncing uselessly off the stromtrooper armor and land at the feet of the officers, doing no damage at all. Socl is not amused. "Open fire!"Seconds later, the Ewoks are dead. In space: "Han will have that shield down; we've got to give him more time!" Lando pleas with Ackbar.Less than ten minutes later, the Emperor and Vader are dead, Luke is found and executed, and the Rebel force is defeated. Wait until I write what would have happened had I been in Piett's position. SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude21 Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Again TGGMW Syndrome has attackes.Well, I'm glad people have come to realize and acknowledge the reality and existance behind "The Good Guy(s) Must Win" Syndrome. Thats a typical american syndrome  I german more often the good guy(s) is(are) killed at the end of movie "Das Boot" , "Steiner - Das Eiserne Kreuz", "I am growing stronger with the Force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Interesting Trej: a legion of his best troops, heh? The old Roman legions were at least 3000 heads (later even 6000) large. I doin't whther the term is still used but I didn't see anything close to 3000 troopers on that Sanctuary Moon! Thank Colonel Peterson for his input, SOCL!, I'm glad the man and I agree! Of course, he reasons from a military point of view. I reason perhaps from a more economic point of view. Either way: it's obvious that the value of the DS II is way to high to risk it's destruction purely on detection matters alone. Something that valuable requires a good defense, that much is clear. Why the Empire didn't have such defenses remains a mystery so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Well, I'm glad people have come to realize and acknowledge the reality and existance behind "The Good Guy(s) Must Win" Syndrome. Thats a typical american syndrome True, quite true. Thank Colonel Peterson for his input, SOCL!I have and he said that whenever there is a matter that needs an official military opinion (since mine, though militarily accurate, is not official) to feel free to ask him. So Colonel Peterson has become a resource to the SWR. SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Thats a typical american syndrome Why are you confused about that? Â I have and he said that whenever there is a matter that needs an official military opinion (since mine, though militarily accurate, is not official) to feel free to ask him. So Colonel Peterson has become a resource to the SWR. I think we should be honored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahled Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Again TGGMW Syndrome has attackes.Well, I'm glad people have come to realize and acknowledge the reality and existance behind "The Good Guy(s) Must Win" Syndrome. Thats a typical american syndrome  I german more often the good guy(s) is(are) killed at the end of movie "Das Boot" , "Steiner - Das Eiserne Kreuz", Dasboot! One hell of a cool film! http://www.jahled.co.uk/smallmonkeywars.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now