How realistic are the last 15 minutes of Return of the Jedi

[Jahled]

No no no, Scathe! Your to unlock this thread until everyone comes back!

[Beast]

Well first of all Vader kills Goold ol' Palpy before lando knocks out the reactor. So luke has been dragging vader around for at least a couple of minutes. So nobody is pre-occupied with trying to get the hell of the DS. Second is everybody is indeed running for his life why is nobody escaping with the shuttle, and everybody just leaves is there ready to go, and besides isnt luke jedi bound to try and save as much people as possible?

 

Furthermore luke is the most wanted person in the known Galaxy he has a huge bounty on his head for capture and the trooper lucky enough to cath him will undoubtly earn a promotion of some sort.

 

and finally how the hell do 1.5 million people know that the emperor is dead?? Vader and Luke are the only witnesses and they would have no clue that the emperor has perished.

[Jahled]

Furthermore luke is the most wanted person in the known Galaxy he has a huge bounty on his head for capture and the trooper lucky enough to cath him will undoubtly earn a promotion of some sort.

 

Are! Easily addressed my friend!

 

The Death Star:

 

Passing squad of Stormtroopers: 'It's Luke Skywalker! His captured Lord Vader! Get him!'

 

'I am not Luke Skywalker! This is not Lord Vader. We are humble cleaners. You will let us go about our business.'

 

'Ok, you can go about your business. Say, your buddy looks like his dying, need any help?'

 

'He is not dying. He merely has a slight throat infection.' {waves hand again}

 

...repeat 497 times as our Jedi duo make their way through the Death Star.

Passing squad of Stormtroopers: 'It's Luke Skywalker! He's trying to kidnap Lord Vader! Get him!'

 

'...weeze...weeze...Luke, Son; I have just enough strength to obliterate them with Force-Lightening, we have done this 498 times now, it's getting a little irritating!'

 

'No father, you need to conserve your strength. Let me'

 

Passing Stormtroopers: Aghaaaa...eieeee....

[vakundok]

Well first of all Vader kills Goold ol' Palpy before lando knocks out the reactor. So luke has been dragging vader around for at least a couple of minutes. So nobody is pre-occupied with trying to get the hell of the DS.

The novelisation describes that they were too tired to move. So, Luke needed time to regain himself.

Second is everybody is indeed running for his life why is nobody escaping with the shuttle' date=' and everybody just leaves is there ready to go[/quote']Because not everybody is capable to pilot a shuttle. (Remember that even Chewie had problems with the controls.)

and besides isnt luke jedi bound to try and save as much people as possible?

Not really. It was the self destruction of the evil from a jedi's point of view' date=' and he had no time to save any of them.

Furthermore luke is the most wanted person in the known Galaxy he has a huge bounty on his head for capture and the trooper lucky enough to cath him will undoubtly earn a promotion of some sort.

Predators and preys flee together from fire. If your survival is questionable at best, only an idiot will stop and try to get a hostage. (Especially since that 'hostage' clearly overwhelmed the most fearsome warrior of your side (Vader).)

and finally how the hell do 1.5 million people know that the emperor is dead?? Vader and Luke are the only witnesses and they would have no clue that the emperor has perished.

They did not. Where did you get that suggestion from? They noticed the chaos all around and that the command chain collapsed at most.

[BoShek]

How realistic is force-wielding orphaned farm-boy raised on a planet revolving around twin suns becoming the saviour of a galaxy far, far away?

 

Scathane is absolutely right of course !

 

How about: Immaculately conveived child prodigy of carpenter family starts new religion gets himself crucified and saves plain everybody in a glaxy not so far away in the process ?

 

Now there are enough people ready to believe that without a question. Realism just doesn´t come into it.

 

Ergo: If you believe in the force, the Rebels just did it. End of discussion.

 

Looking forward to "How realistic are are the last 15 minutes of the bible?" thread.

 

No, scratch that ! *mustn´t make fun of religion, mustn´t make fun of religion, mustn´t ...*

[Beast]

Okay Jahled,

 

luke could do that but he's exhausted from battling both vader and Palpy. And he probably doesnt have enough energy left do mindtrick a whole bunch of alert troopers. I take it that The emperor deployed mostly elite troops to his DS. There not some backwater screwups found on Tatooine.

And it would take time, time he doenst have.

 

Vakundok,

 

Ur first point states that luke needed a couple of minutes to recouperate from the battle. Losing time he's already short of.

 

Second point:

Agreed, but the shuttle's in a Flighthanger are u trying to tell me that there was not a single imp on duty that could have taken off with the shuttle. Or some stormie desperate enough to try fly it anyway.

 

Third point:

I dont agree, luke has constantly tried to save/redeem evil people because its the right thing to do. Both The Novels and the movies.

 

Fourth Point:

Stormtroopers are trained to follow orders and serve the empire even if it means that they will loose their own lives. Furthermore their are always loyal fanatics who will try everything to stop luke.

 

Fifth Point:

Doesnt matter it was an reply to somebody's statement.

[Hitomi]

The conclusion was made in the Thrawn trilogy by the Grand Admiral himself using Joruus as the case in point. The Jedi Master was using his talents to control and guide the crews onboard the cloaked Dreadnoughts that convinced various planets that Thrawn could penetrate planetary shields. When explaining the idea to Pellaeon during an assault Thrawn put across his theory that Palpatine had been in contact with the entire Imperial Fleet through the force. Thrawn explained the terrible showing of the fleet at Endor after Palpatine’s death by theorizing that without the Emperor’s presence the fleet suddenly lost a massive amount of reassurance and skill that had been supplied through the force. Pellaeon was the one to order the retreat at Endor and was disbelieving as to the Grand Admiral’s theory.

 

I personally put stock into this theory based on the movies and the books because of what we have seen Palpatine do in the past. During the Dark Empire series Palpatine was able to transfer force ability from person to person, and was capable of summoning pure force storms. Sometime before the Rebellion Palpatine managed to bury the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya in Coruscant without anyone noticing the move or mentioning it in any official manner. Seeing as how the Super Star Destroyers of the Executor class were 17 Kilometers in length and had a massive surface area and overall volume I doubt it would be easy to hide one. It was stipulated in the Rouge series that Palpatine used his power to block the memory of the burial out of people’s minds, possibly even doing it himself with the force.

 

As for the rest of the battle it is perfectly realistic, and I shall explain why.

 

When the Rebel Fleet arrived at the Death Star’s location they were immediately set upon by Imperial forces and engaged by Tie Fighters. The Tie Fighters were the first stage of the assault, as the Death Star was to engage shortly thereafter. The reason, tactically speaking, that the fighters engaged first was to remove the Rebel’s main advantage. Every single Rebel fighter carries some kind of warhead. Y-Wings and X-Wings both carry Proton Torpedoes, A-Wings apparently carry a dozen Concussion Missiles, and B-Wings carry a dozen or so Proton Torpedoes as well. Throughout the books and games these torpedoes have been shown to be a danger to Imperial Capital ships, capable of opening up holes in a Destroyer’s limited particle shielding.

 

Tie Fighters engaged in order to destroy the Rebel strike craft, therefore removing the danger to the Destroyers and the Death Star.

 

The Rebels were not there to destroy the Imperial fleet; their only objective was the Death Star. The fleet was to engage in standoff tactics while the fighters took out the DS reactor. Without the capability to strike the DS the Rebel fleet was going to flee. However, they were right next to Endor, a massive gravity well that stopped them from jumping directly into hyperspace. The Imperial Fleet’s job was to block the main exit vectors for Ackbar’s forces while the DS blew the capital ships to hell.

 

Here is where the problems come into play. The Imperial Fleet was holding a rather tight formation, only a few kilometers between ships, in order to prevent any major vessels from breaking through. Any single vessel or small group that ran at the blockade would fall under the entire fleet’s guns and be quickly destroyed. When the DS starting opening fire however the fleet immediately followed Lando’s lead and moved into the blockade.

 

The entire Rebel fleet was therefore in between the massive Star Destroyers, while each rebel ship had a smaller profile than the Imperial ones. If the Star Destroyer’s were to engage with massive broadsides the probability of missing their targets and hitting friendly ships was high. So they engaged with single batteries, against multiple targets.

 

So sporadic fire was offered to destroy the Rebel fleet due to crappy battle tactics and firing orders from the main officers. Due to the superior shielding of the Mon Calamari Cruisers it took a long time, roughly 15 minutes, for the sporadic fire from various turrets to bring down their shields. Imperial shields were defiantly failing at the end of the 15 minutes, while I cannot be so sure as to the status of the main Rebel Cruisers.

 

The Rebels played a waiting game with the Imperial fleet, and their superior shields (with a concentrated assault on the Executor from the fleet) allowed the Rebels to inflict massive damage while minimizing their own. The skirmish with the capital ships probably forced some of the Imperial fighters to fall back and protect their mother ships from torpedoes and fighter assaults, so Lando’s elite force was able to get away mostly un-harassed when the DS shields went down.

 

Thoughts??

Comments??

[Jahled]

Well penned dude!

 

I'm not going to pick up loads of points because i've got to log out and do a few things before I hit the sack. But one thing that bugs me is your theory on rebel ships having better shields than their Imperial counter parts, which at Endor were Star Destroyers; the core of the Imperial Navy. I said this previously, but the Mon Calamari ships were converted from civilian luxory liners. There's no way they could be converted to something that good take more punishment whilst at the same time giving more to make that enhanced shield factor count as a warship, even with your rather well thought out rebel tactical argument. I will simply state that it is not possible, the Mon Calamari did not have superiour tech starships, their shields were not better than Imperial Star Destroyers other than one or two mentioned by authors other than GL; one of which was a command ship. No, if that tactical engagement was real it would have been like the battles in the gulf war.

 

Overwelmingly superior firepower and overwelmingly superior trained-crews financed by an overwelmingly financed regime. In truth, the rebels would have been reduced to molten piece meal as quickly as the superior TIE fighters (as stated by GL in the original books) would have obliterated the antiques, and prototypes fielded by the rebels. (How did they finance such supposed superior fighters given they had only no offical galactic funding?) Complete crap. It's like saying the allies in the Gulf War would be content to field crap fighters from the fifties in the face of say, if the Iraqi's had access to F-14s, because we were confidant enough in the abilities of our moden destroyers and cruisers! Not reality is it, certainly not for a galactic empire controlling the galaxy.

 

The last fifteen minutes of ROTJ were simply not realistic, unless one point you made i've been harping on about for ages now is addressed as the final comment. That when the Emperor died, the 'Forces of the Empire were plunged into confusion.' (to quote yet again) It is the only way the rebels would have won that engangement, through however you read what that influance Palpatine had; your theory is the most likely!

 

Yo! BTW Hitomi! You stick around cause if this is your first post I look forward to reading your subsequant ones! Bloody good first post Woo!

 

Don't click here!

[Jahled]

The emperor deployed mostly elite troops to his DS. There not some backwater screwups found on Tatooine.

 

ALL Stormtroopers are clones! They are all the same regardless of what gear they where on Tattooine or Hoth. If you don't subscribe to this after AOTC, and the whole licencing lark of never seeing a Stormtroopers face in any SW comic or film etc should have dropped some heavy hints. If you don't take my word for it, final evidance will be in the final prequal. I'm quite happy to discuss it until then.

[vakundok]

Vakundok,

Ur first point states that luke needed a couple of minutes to recouperate from the battle. Losing time he's already short of.

The novelisation wrote that they were too tired to move. If you are too tired to move, resting would not be a waste of time. Actually it would be the only chance to get out from there.

Second point:

Agreed, but the shuttle's in a Flighthanger are u trying to tell me that there was not a single imp on duty that could have taken off with the shuttle. Or some stormie desperate enough to try fly it anyway.

There was no single imps. They grouped around pilots or officers who ordered pilots. You can see one such group behind Luke.

Third point:

I dont agree, luke has constantly tried to save/redeem evil people because its the right thing to do. Both The Novels and the movies.

Really? I cannot remember him trying to save anyone from jabba's sail barge. Actually it was him who ordered Leia to fire on the barge causing its destruction along with its passengers, despite that the small ships appeared to be far faster so likely they could escape from the barge without destroying it.

Fourth Point:

Stormtroopers are trained to follow orders and serve the empire even if it means that they will loose their own lives. Furthermore their are always loyal fanatics who will try everything to stop luke.

Interesting that you previously mentioned desperately fleeing stormtroopers. Who followed orders remained at their posts and died there (see Jerjerrod). Who were desperate enough to flee, would not risk their lives, since they already tried to save their lives. Other thing is that the small dock (according to the novelisation) was very close to the turbolift leading to the emperor's throne room, so it wasn't that long voyage.

[vakundok]

Jahled:

In the world of energy shields and energy weapons, any starship can be converted to nearly met official warships. The rebels had unofficial support from many worlds and even official from some. The technology development of SW universe is said to be nearly zero, which means that equipment available to the rebels nearly met the imperial equipment. (The best example is the ion cannon.)

In terms of resources, you seem to forget about the DS. It consisted likely millions of times of that was required to build the rebel fleet, but it was basicly undefended. And the rebel personel wasn't that undertrained as you think. Many of them came from the academy, so they got the same training that the imperial personel and was led by former imperial officers and tactical geniuses.

And the most important think you seem to forget. It wasn't the imperial fleet. It was only a fraction of it against the whole rebel fleet. Mothma stated that the imperial fleet was dispersed throughout the galaxy to find the rebels. It required that the large fraction of the imperial fleet acted as decoys.

 

The only thing I found unrealistic is the behavior of the Ties.

 

Other things:

- Stormtroopers are clones of more hosts. (Not necesserely kaminoian type clones.) GL said it recently. The EU comes up with an explanation that there are special individuals who deseved to become stormtrooper as well.

- Palleaon realized that the efficiency of the crew increased by 40%.

 

Now, time to sleep.

[Likinsman]

what was unrealistic about ties behavior?

[igorimp]

Yulleho. I thought we came up with the final ruling, but you guys reopened all subjects again for discussion.

 

Suggestions I'd like to comment:

- First, regarding to fighter ratings. Everything's 2:1. The cost of a TIE fighter is half (or less) the price of X-wings, making them Imperial favorites for a galaxy-wide dictatorship. The effectiveness is also 2:1. While Rebel fighters have shields, TIEs have manueverability that takes away much of that advantage (don't forget that a pilot shoting at a TIE fighter from direct front has to hit a small two-meter wide circle with two narrow lines at sides - a daunting task, play X-wing vs. TIE fighter at Hard rating against other humans to demonstrate). In Endor, which was packed with TIEs, the destruction rating was (mentioned earlier by me) 1.7 TIEs for 1 Rebel fighter. The 500+ Rebel fighter force would quickly be reduced to rubble by the TIE fighter/interceptor force counting 1700 (or 8900 if Death Star had fighters).

 

- Second, Mon Calamari cruisers are inferior to Star Destroyers. Although they are excellent ships, they DO have weaker shields, less weapons and lighter hull. This comes from pitting a 1200-meter long converted luxary liner (entire Rebellion's 50+ of them) against a 1600-meter galactic-superpowers prime battleship (the Empire's 17'000+ of them).

 

- Third, someone suggested that Imperial ships dared not to fire within their formation... You people don't have much confidance in Imperial computers, do you? A Death Star superlaser, which requires huge power build-ups, warming up and precise aiming... destroys a 1000-meter ship without much problem. You are suggesting a 60'000 time smaller weapon (a turbolaser) would have trouble hitting the same target. Not to mention ISD's have a little thing called 'Computer Assisted Targeting' (not the human-manned batteries everyone imagines due to the first movie's shots of Death Star's guns. In addition, although it is difficault, these ships CAN hit a starfighter moving at 100 MGLTs at 10 meters length. Why would they have problem taking on targets at 10 MGLTs and 1200 meters???????!!!!!

 

- Luke's escape seems inplausible at best. Even if he had time, he would have trouble dragging Vader's body and armor halfway around the station. As it happened, all manuals state the Emperor's throne room was the top of a one hundred-stories high tower at the absolute top of the station. The hanger of the type shown to end Luke's escape looks suspiciously like the main hangar bay the likes of which is found only at the middle of the DS's ring (the equator). This DOES mean that Luke, in fact, had to run (if the reactor was blown to bits, how DID the turbolifts work?) halfway around the station dragging Vader. This was done for dramatic effort, so Lucas could show Imperials running around confused and in panic. I'm sure the Emperor (being the sneaky bastard he was), had a secret escape shuttle parked two feet from his throne room chair...

 

- Thrawn Theory. Let's get one thing straight for all times. According to this, the Imperials lost heart after the Emperor was killed. The Emperor was killed AFTER Han Solo destroyed the shield generator, AFTER the Rebel fighters started their attack on the Death Star, AFTER the Rebel fleet wiped out enough of Imperial fleet to stay alive for most of the battle, and JUST BEFORE the Executor was destroyed and the fleet retreated. Basically, the Emperor was dead for some two minutes before the Imperial side fell apart. What happened in the previous 20+ minutes? Not the effect of the Emperor's death, it wasn't...

 

So much for me. Fight on.

[Guest Scathane]

We should probably rename this to The Neverending Thread.

[igorimp]

It just goes on... and on... and on... and on...

 

Just when I think I'm out... THEY DRAG ME BACK IN...

 

[vakundok]

what was unrealistic about ties behavior?

When three Interceptors followed an A-wing and the Falcon hunted them (around a frigate). They left their target. It was OK. But they kept the formation giving the chance to the Falcon to follow and destroy them one after another. Real fighter wingmen would split up and regroup behind the Falcon. (Just as Dooku's escorting fighters.)

When the rebels entered the tunnel, the first Tie destroyed an X-wing, but it did not fire more. After the split, the Falcon (and Wedge) was 'hunted' by two Interceptors. How many times did they fire? I was able to see only one single shot. One single shot from two Interceptors, whereas four Ties were able to get trough the Falcon's shield in ANH quite rapidly.

[vakundok]

Yulleho. I thought we came up with the final ruling, but you guys reopened all subjects again for discussion.

 

Suggestions I'd like to comment:

- First, regarding to fighter ratings. Everything's 2:1. The cost of a TIE fighter is half (or less) the price of X-wings, making them Imperial favorites for a galaxy-wide dictatorship. The effectiveness is also 2:1. While Rebel fighters have shields, TIEs have manueverability that takes away much of that advantage (don't forget that a pilot shoting at a TIE fighter from direct front has to hit a small two-meter wide circle with two narrow lines at sides - a daunting task, play X-wing vs. TIE fighter at Hard rating against other humans to demonstrate). In Endor, which was packed with TIEs, the destruction rating was (mentioned earlier by me) 1.7 TIEs for 1 Rebel fighter. The 500+ Rebel fighter force would quickly be reduced to rubble by the TIE fighter/interceptor force counting 1700 (or 8900 if Death Star had fighters).

I wrote both reasons why did I leave out the fighter compliment of the DS. Your 1.7 to 1 ratio is reasonable for the whole battle (while I counted 1.83 to 1). However, when I counted only the period prior to the destruction of the shield of the DS (in other words, the fighter battle), I got 3.33 to 1.

- Second, Mon Calamari cruisers are inferior to Star Destroyers. Although they are excellent ships, they DO have weaker shields, less weapons and lighter hull. This comes from pitting a 1200-meter long converted luxary liner (entire Rebellion's 50+ of them) against a 1600-meter galactic-superpowers prime battleship (the Empire's 17'000+ of them).

Officially, the mon cal cruisers are 1200m long and have stronger shields. How is it possible? Because they lack the ground forces and half of the fighter compliment of the ISDs. Besides, the model sizes support the lenght of the mon cal cruisers to be around 1500m, not 1200, and some shots seem to confirm that. (However i haven't checked it yet.)

- Third' date=' someone suggested that Imperial ships dared not to fire within their formation... You people don't have much confidance in Imperial computers, do you? A Death Star superlaser, which requires huge power build-ups, warming up and precise aiming... destroys a 1000-meter ship without much problem. You are suggesting a 60'000 time smaller weapon (a turbolaser) would have trouble hitting the same target. Not to mention ISD's have a little thing called 'Computer Assisted Targeting' (not the human-manned batteries everyone imagines due to the first movie's shots of Death Star's guns. In addition, although it is difficault, these ships CAN hit a starfighter moving at 100 MGLTs at 10 meters length. Why would they have problem taking on targets at 10 MGLTs and 1200 meters???????!!!!! [/quote']As long as they have line of sight of the target, they can target the mon cal ships. Since the rebel ships were inside the formation. Their line of sight was obscured by other friendly ships. Despite any computer targeting, an ISD cannot fire through an other ISD, can it?

- Luke's escape seems inplausible at best. Even if he had time' date=' he would have trouble dragging Vader's body and armor halfway around the station. As it happened, all manuals state the Emperor's throne room was the top of a one hundred-stories high tower at the absolute top of the station. The hanger of the type shown to end Luke's escape looks suspiciously like the main hangar bay the likes of which is found only at the middle of the DS's ring (the equator). This DOES mean that Luke, in fact, had to run (if the reactor was blown to bits, how DID the turbolifts work?) halfway around the station dragging Vader. This was done for dramatic effort, so Lucas could show Imperials running around confused and in panic. I'm sure the Emperor (being the sneaky bastard he was), had a secret escape shuttle parked two feet from his throne room chair... [/quote']Were there lights? Yes. Was there life support? Yes. So, not everything received its energy directly from the main reactor.

(The hangar from witch Luke escaped was not the main hangar but the one Vader used. But it is true it was in the equator.) The distance between two points of the station does not really matter as long as there are turbolifts. Since in the throne room the turbolift was right there, the only factor is the distance between the turbolift on the level of that hangar and the hangar, which was according to the novelisation a short corridor only. (I left out the size of the hangar, since who were there were likely fleeing.)

- Thrawn Theory. Let's get one thing straight for all times. According to this, the Imperials lost heart after the Emperor was killed. The Emperor was killed AFTER Han Solo destroyed the shield generator, AFTER the Rebel fighters started their attack on the Death Star, AFTER the Rebel fleet wiped out enough of Imperial fleet to stay alive for most of the battle, and JUST BEFORE the Executor was destroyed and the fleet retreated. Basically, the Emperor was dead for some two minutes before the Imperial side fell apart. What happened in the previous 20+ minutes? Not the effect of the Emperor's death, it wasn't...

You should reread what Thrawn's theory was. While I did not use it, I will answer this for you. The basics of it were that (unlike allways happened), the emperor did not controll the minds of the fleet personel, so they fighted like cadets. The theory had nothing to do with the emperor's death, only with the fact that he focused on Luke instead of the battle.

[R2-Opus2]

Overwelmingly superior firepower and overwelmingly superior trained-crews financed by an overwelmingly financed regime. In truth, the rebels would have been reduced to molten piece meal as quickly as the superior TIE fighters (as stated by GL in the original books) would have obliterated the antiques, and prototypes fielded by the rebels. (How did they finance such supposed superior fighters given they had only no offical galactic funding?) Complete crap. It's like saying the allies in the Gulf War would be content to field crap fighters from the fifties in the face of say, if the Iraqi's had access to F-14s, because we were confidant enough in the abilities of our moden destroyers and cruisers! Not reality is it, certainly not for a galactic empire controlling the galaxy

 

First, agree the Imps had overwelmingly superior firepower, however it was not used overwelmingly now was it? Realistic or no, they were hindered by orders which likely also influenced their ability to make creative decisions in the heat of battle to protect themselves.

 

As for the Rebel's financing of special projects like the B-Wing, by this time I'm sure there were many worlds secretly throwing in their support, resources, personnel (including scientists and engineers) as well as financial backing where they could. Sullust had recently openly threw in their support, and they are a major industrial planet. Granted I have to wonder what kind of time transpired before they could benefit greatly from its joining, but this is just one world among many. A galaxy is a big place.

 

Finally about the Mon Cal ships, I was under the impression that overall, their shields were weak, but that their only advantage was that they had redundancy. If they indeed had that ability at Endor, that would partly explain their longevity in combat, but not totally. Those refits I agree do take time to convert to warships, however the Mon Cals did have time just before joining the Alliance but just after they rebelled against the Imps to make those adjustments. They had begun conversions long before joining the Alliance, at least, that's my understanding.

 

It might have been enough time even if the only argument left about them is that only those half a dozon or so Mon Cal ships at the battle were fully battle ready.

[vakundok]

Finally about the Mon Cal ships, I was under the impression that overall, their shields were weak, but that their only advantage was that they had redundancy.

Yep. When I wrote that the mon cal ships had officially stronger shields, I ment redundant shielding (wich makes possible to stay longer on the field, just like stronger shields).

[Hitomi]

Cant type to much at the moment, in study hall as it is but I shall say this real quick.

 

1) Thanks for the warm welcome

 

2) MC80's are stated to have multiple redundant shield systems, which have been described as capable of brining a whole new array online, completely undamaged.

 

3) Mc80's are a match for Imperial Star Destroyers.

ISD:

120 LTLS

8-12 MTLS

12 HTLS

 

MC80:

98 LTLS

??? MTLs

>2 HTLS

[Hitomi]

Very well, now that I have more time let me try to write this up a little better.

 

 

The Mon Calamari Star Cruisers were originally massive luxury liners. However, after the Empire alienated their home world the Mon Calamari began to massively refit their entire fleet. The Mc80 class of Cruisers was the most powerful vessel the Rebels had under their control.

 

When it comes to armament the Mc80s are not totally under armed. According to official and canon sources they are armed with approximately 48 Light Turbo laser turrets. If we were to assume that these turrets are the same as those onboard the Star Destroyers, which seem to be a standard dual mount, the Mc80 would have 96 Light Turbo lasers. An Imperial Class I on the other hand has 60 of these batteries, a stated 120 Light Cannons. The Rebel Cruisers have exactly 80% the Light Weapons as the ISD. The ISD also carries at least 2 Quad mounts of Medium Cannons, and 6 dual mounts of heavy cannons. The Mc80 was seen firing 2 heavy cannons in the final scenes of the ROTJ battle, so we know that the Rebels have access to the heavy weapons.

 

As far as I can tell the Mc80 class of cruisers has approximately 80% the firepower of an Imperial Class I and has superior shields. That way you get a balanced fight. The ISD kicks out more power per second and the Mc80 can take more power per second.

 

The Mon Calamari ships are stated to have backup shield systems, which are brought online when one shield array fails. The Imperials on the other hand only use a single shield array as far as we know.

[BoShek]

Yulleho. I thought we came up with the final ruling, but you guys reopened all subjects again for discussion.

 

 

Just goes to show what sore losers the Imps are.

[igorimp]

Yulleho. I thought we came up with the final ruling, but you guys reopened all subjects again for discussion.

 

 

Just goes to show what sore losers the Imps are.

 

 

[No comment]

 

[vakundok]

Except the (not too important) moments I mentioned, I have not found the Endor space battle (as a whole) to be unrealistic. And no standing reasons have been presented to find it to be.

And it is not about imperial or not imperial. I favour the imperials, so I should have found the battle unrealistic since they lost it.

[igorimp]

Except the (not too important) moments I mentioned, I have not found the Endor space battle (as a whole) to be unrealistic.

 

The not too important moments being:

 

1) superior Imperial tehnology;

2) superior Imperial personnel training;

3) superior Imperial fleet numbers;

4) superior Imperial starfighter numbers;

5) Death Star's single blast havock;

6) fact that Endor was an Imperial ambush prepeared for months against an underpowered Rebel fleet that barged into a dangerous situation unready.

 

Gee. You're right. They're not too important. More important is the Rebel winning formula (which I have formulated some 10 pages back):

 

1) their leadership made no notable turn-the-tide style manuvers;

2) they had no numerical superiority;

3) they had technological superiority in starfighter combat, but not in the fleet engagement;

4) they were expecting to find an underdefended and unpreapeared Death Star, instead found an Imperial fleet with operating Death Star superlaser.

 

Really.

 

Gee. Ingenious.