Are the space battles doomed to be the same all the time?

[Teradyn_pff]

My question is, are we going to end up seeing nothing but Rebel fighters vs anything the Empire has? The reason this is a valid concern is that the Rebel fighters are so superior to the Tie Fighters/Bombers that they require pop cap points to deploy, yet the Imperial fighters require 0 pop cap points and are produced for free as the battle progresses.

 

The time limit on the SD ability to spawn Ties is still unknown, and we don't know whether or not there is a limit as to how many groups can be created given enough time. This being said, with no Lancer Frigate, the Imperials are going to be stuck using tie fighters to combat the Rebel fighters, with the Acclimator and the IPV I Imp. Patrol Vessel (whatever this is) possibly being able to help somewhat. This matchup is very likely to be disasterous seeing as the Rebels have the (way out of EAW timeline) A-Wing which is way more than a match for the Tie Fighter and totally dominant against the Tie Scout and Bomber, the X-Wing which is just as able to wipe out Tie Bombers and Scouts as the A-Wing yet still can take on Tie Fighters and win most of the time. Combine this with the Y-Wing's shielding and superior fighter protection in the form of the A-Wing at least, the ability of the X-Wing to perform both the capital ship attack role (to some degree) and the fighter superiority role, and you have a very lopsided battle in favor of the Rebels that the Imperial capital ships will have to even out. The problem with this is that without the Lancer Frigate, there is no evening this out.

 

I will say this however, the Lancer Frigate should not be in EAW because it doesn't fit the timeline as it was developed in response to the obvious fighter weakness exposed at the Battle of Yavin. Of course the inclusion of the A-Wing and Mon Cal Cruiser are wrong timeline wise. The Mon Cal being brought in early to provide balance for the rebels in the Cap Ship department, and I have no idea what the heck the A-Wing does except imbalance the fighter department. The Lancer Frigate should be brought in as the balancer since balance is able to trump the timeline for the Rebels, so should it for the Imperials.

 

Anyway, back to my main point, what would prompt the Rebels to build anything other than fighters and bombers for any space engagement? Are the Star Destroyers able to target them effectively? Do the Acclimator and the IPV I Imp. Patrol Vessel have unrealistic (SW-wise) starfighter attack roles to provide balance at the expense of the SW canon? Is it possible that the Star Destroyers can pump out free fighters so fast and without limit as to make the battle even with numbers vs the Rebels' quality? What do you think?

[Naja]

Actually, from what I hear, Tartans eat Rebel fighters for breakfast.

[Teradyn_pff]

Actually, from what I hear, Tartans eat Rebel fighters for breakfast.

 

Oh really? Heh, why would the Empire have the need for the Lancer Frigate then after the battle of Yavin if the Tartan Patrol Cruiser did so well?

 

Something is amiss here.

[Nevets]

Actually, from what I hear, Tartans eat Rebel fighters for breakfast.

 

Oh really? Heh, why would the Empire have the need for the Lancer Frigate then after the battle of Yavin if the Tartan Patrol Cruiser did so well?

 

Something is amiss here.

 

Unfortunately I doubt they think or care that far into it

 

But I agree, they should have just included the lancer, even if it is off the timeline, it isn't anymore than the a-wing.

[Stellar_Magic]

Well the Tartan looks like it would be effective as a Starfighter killer, but it still can't possibly be as effective in the role as the Lancer. The Tartan was probably replaced by the Lancer class...

[Sabu113]

Actually A-wing design was finished by General Dodonna just before hte battle of yavin.

[Stellar_Magic]

Yes the DESIGN. This doesn't mean the ship was put into production immediately though. You have to remember there is a certain amount of time it takes to retool and start production.

[Nevets]

Actually A-wing design was finished by General Dodonna just before hte battle of yavin.

 

The SSD design was done by this time too (had to of been)...It just wasn't in production till after ANH.

 

I'm really sick of that excuse.

[SirNuke]

I know this means next to nothing, but I vaguely recalling the X-wing starfighter game showing A-Wings in a cutscreen showing .... the evacuating of Yavin? Or at least sometime around the Battle of Yavin missions.

 

A pity my copy of the game doesn't work on new versions of Windows (or any in Dos emulators). I miss that game and Dark Forces.

[WhiteSkull]

A-wing design was done before ANH we know this as fact, and it has a right to be in EAW timeline since the tech was done.regardless if any where made for the battle of yavin.

 

SSD we do not know for fact (unless someone can show some kind of proof) if it was done before or after ANH.

[Faceh]

well let me see will the battles be the same yes they are i have played the full game and every single battle is fought like you suggest its crap im never gonna play again wasted my money buying it.

 

sarcasam mode off

 

 

I have never played the game so i cannot comment on how the space battles will play out.

[Foshjedi2004]

Here is the ULTIMATE TIMELINE POST:

 

The A-wing design was completed just after Yavin with it being sent from Dodonna to Blissex for final completion. It was designed after Dodonna noticed that the Alliance needed speed to battle the Fast TIE Fighters. It was put into limited production prior to Hoth. We know this as Tycho Celchu mentions that the A-wings at Endor were made in small workshop setups with the interior of his A-wing haveing inlaid wood from Cardooine.

 

The Lancer Class Frigate was in limited production in the ANH-ESB period as a direct counter to the X-wing and Y-wing bomber threats against Imperial shipping concerns.

 

The SSD was in production prior to Yavin. In the Months subsequent to Yavin it was shook down and then the Executor was delivered to Vader's Death Squadron at the Yavin blockade. In this Fleet there were also the initial run of ISD2s.

 

According to this then all of the above ships should be in EAW!!! As The A-wing was produced AFTER the SSD was made.

 

As a Response to the SSD the B-wing was designed and made by Ackbar and some Verpine Techs.

[JanGaarni]

I concure!

 

And that's about all I have to say about that.

[Foshjedi2004]

Woot Jan Concurs!!

[Xenomorphine]

What about the Assault Gunboat? I think I asked on another subject, but I can't seem to find it to know if anyone had answered that.

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, I don't think too many of us think that the current lineup of ships and fighters in EAW is correct for EAW's timeline. This is a moot point at this juncture, because the game is too close to completion for that to be corrected, even if they were so inclined, which they are not.

 

The problem that we will have to deal with, still stands. Unless the Tartan is that effective against fighters, then that may be a one ship balancing point. Maybe. But I would sure hate to see a fleet of 2 ISDs, 1 Interdictor, 2 Victory SD, 1 Acclamator and all of their free fighter complements run away from a battle with 6 A-Wing groups, 8 Y-Wing groups and 6 X-Wing groups because the Rebels would be that sure of winning.

 

If the Imperial fleet I described is correct for the 20 limit and the Rebel fleet is correct for the 20 limit, it should be a fight that tactics should determine the winner. I am worried that the Imperials would have to have at least 2 Tartan in their fleet to stand a chance, even with all of the fighters that those SDs could bring to bear.

 

Ultimately the demo should give us an idea if my fears are grounded, but, assuming that there is a problem. How would we counter it?

 

Another issue with the battle I described above is that if it is possible for the Rebels to have almost no chance of loosing that battle, what does that say about the relative costs per population point?

 

Scenarios can be tested once we get the demo, but for right now, all we can do is theorize based on the information we currently have. It beats arguing over something that is finalized like the V***** being dropped.

[Xyvik]

What I would give for a squadron of Defenders!

 

To be fair, none of us have played the game, but I see your point Ter. However, at the same time, the sheer numbers of TIEs was one of the strategies of the Empire. Even Rogue Squadron lost members when they faced substantial odds, and the Empire is all about substantial odds.

[Teradyn_pff]

Right, and the timing on how fast, or the ammount that can be spawned at once of the Tie Fighters is a very important factor in light of that.

 

This will be one of the first things that will be targetted as a nerf cry for the Rebels if it is very effective, or a cry for help from the Imperials if it is so restrictive as to be rendered useless.

[Nevets]

I still think having the tie cost be half of the rebel cost would probably be the best, it would allow for the realism to be there, the imperial advantage would be there and it seems like it would be less likely to be nerfed.

[Teradyn_pff]

Yes, I agree. The ties should be buildable units, not SD special "weapons". But what can you do? There may not be a way for us to fix this in a mod as the core game engine may not allow for fighters to be garrisoned in ships.

[WhiteSkull]

guys tie's probly are a buildable ship and no doubt ISD etc.. all carry so many, its just ISD get a special to make NEW ones durning combat.

[SirNuke]

That would be what I thought as well...

 

X-wings/A-wings are superior, but certainly not invincible, and the I don't think either of them truely have the firepower to take on major capital ships by themselves. So in short, I doubt you will see many Rebel fleets composed almost entirely of starfighters (or at least if you do, it won't be very hard to counter).

 

Regardless, I am 99$ sure that fighters can be garrisoned in ships. The first two ingame videos showed fighters be sent out of ships (in particular, how do Tie Bombers move if they can't be garrisoned?).

[Stellar_Magic]

All those TIEs (Including the Bombers) spawn from the Star Destroyer, including the TIE Bombers. I think TIE Scouts are the only units that are built seperate from the Destroyers.

[Teradyn_pff]

guys tie's probly are a buildable ship and no doubt ISD etc.. all carry so many, its just ISD get a special to make NEW ones durning combat.

 

That is an interesting theory, but that contradicts the entire reason they are a special ability for SDs.

[SirNuke]

Not really. They would serve as reinforcements during battles for the ones you lose. The timer is probably set long enough that you can't afford to arrive without ties prebuilt.