Heroes, heroes and some more heroes.

[sanderke]

I just read that EaW will have about 7 heroes for each side and after having played WC3 for a while the shock of seeing this game turn into a hero fest struck me.

I understand heroes are supposed to be cool, laser beam deflecting, army slaughtering, walking pieces of ownage but how do you take them down?

 

Has anyone been able to uncover what weaknesses they have? (from a movie or something) or are the only practical ways to take them down the use of other heroes?

 

All I've been able to pick up about this was a few movies of darth vader.

He force-crushed tanks and did some other fancy force move to whipe out a few squads of infantery.

More importantly he hardly took any damage while doing it! (5% at most)

 

Personally I'd be very worried if I saw darth vader blowing up a mol cal cruiser in his tie fighter or seeing obi-wan going head to head with an AT-AT and seeing that monstrosity (the AT-AT that is ) buckle to it's knees.

 

Does anyone have some more information on this?

[Nevets]

They did say bounty hunters would be able to take heroes out for awhile.

 

I infact wouldn't mind having even more heroes, I want them all.

 

Problem is, to solve these hero issues we need hero death. With hero death if you use your forces to take out one hero you wouldn't need to worry about them ever coming back again.

 

more units wouldn't be so bad either.

[Garbageben]

Has anyone been able to uncover what weaknesses they have? (from a movie or something) or are the only practical ways to take them down the use of other heroes?

Well in this one video there are 4 rebel artilleries shooting at Darth Vader and his health was going down pretty quickly. Note that he was walking with his lightsaber and was not attacking the artilleries at all. Any person who played the game and saw that would certainly use Vader's force crush ability against one of them and then call in troops and vehicles to aid Vader.

[vasuba_pff]

Has anyone been able to uncover what weaknesses they have? (from a movie or something) or are the only practical ways to take them down the use of other heroes?

Well in this one video there are 4 rebel artilleries shooting at Darth Vader and his health was going down pretty quickly. Note that he was walking with his lightsaber and was not attacking the artilleries at all. Any person who played the game and saw that would certainly use Vader's force crush ability against one of them and then call in troops and vehicles to aid Vader.

 

The plan also is your 7 heros are like Generals fordifferent armies. Piett from whats been seen is solely on the ISD Accuser which believe it or not is accurate. that was his Ship to Command before he moved to Executor.

 

Veers has been Seen in the ATAT only. Vader and Palpatine can of course do whatever they wish. Tarkin as well but he has that cant retreat thing going on.

 

 

Rebels we know ackbar is on Home one and neve rleaves it. luke appears only in red squadron. so while theres alot of heros they are limited in what they can do and where they can be.

[plokoon9619]

Hopefully a mod will change it so they all can leave a hero ship.

[sanderke]

Well in this one video there are 4 rebel artilleries shooting at Darth Vader and his health was going down pretty quickly.

True and that is what I fear.

4 artillery pieces will most likely be 4 or 8 pop cap. (most likely 8 since otherwise it would be valued at the same price as an infantery squad)

8 pop cap is almost half an army, 4 is not quite as heavy but still a fifth of your total cap. (or more if you are defending)

Basicly that's 4 (or 8 ) pop cap that you need just to counter that hero.

Not to mention the units which that hero will kill before being shot up or the fact that there might be multiple heroes at the same time.

 

The plan also is your 7 heros are like Generals for different armies.

What exactly do you mean by that? only 1 hero on the map (the battlemap that is, not the galactic map) at a time?

That would be a good start to hero balancing if you ask me.

 

while theres alot of heros they are limited in what they can do and where they can be.

That's still 3/4 heroes at a time, seeing their power in those movies would put those 3/4 heroes at about the same power as a full 20 point army...

[RogueCommander]

Actually you are wrong about the pop cap. It has been said the defender can have 10 units. What does that mean?It means that if you wanted you could have 10 artillary pieces. Only in space do units take up different amounts of the pop. cap. Oh and you completely forgot about structures. Like for example the turbolaser tower or Magnapulse cannon. Not to mention you can use bombers to target a hero. But then again Im not saying your completely wrong or Im but that signs point to that heroes won't be that game breaking.

 

*If Im wrong about the way the land pop. cap. is set up someone please correct me w/info*

[sanderke]

Hmm must've missed that one, where did you hear about the (lack of a) land pop cap?

If you are indeed right then it does fix the hero problem. (provided there can be only one at a time)

[Xyvik]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the amount of hereos in EaW is a very very bad sign. Either lower the hero numbers, raise the regular troop numbers, or install hero death.

 

 

"I can only protect you...I can't fight a war for you." Those words were spoken by Qui-Gon, and those words are very true. Heroes do not fight wars. Heroes do not win wars. It is the everyday troops who do so, and they are later hailed as heroes. A military genius without his troops is nothing. Darth Vader without his Stormtroopers could not take on all the Rebels. Han Solo without the rest of the Rebels would have been nothing but a frozen popsicle on Jabba's wall.

 

In other words, emphasis should be placed on the people who actually do the fighting: the infantry, the units, the regular "jarheads" who fight and die for their cause, and in the end, are the real heroes.

[Garbageben]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the amount of hereos in EaW is a very very bad sign. Either lower the hero numbers, raise the regular troop numbers, or install hero death.

I think you guys are making too big of a fuss about the heroes. There are about 7 per side. With 44 planets and therefore 88 maps then there is less than a 10% chance per map that you'll be facing a hero. Now the opponent won't be omniscient and say "there going to attack here so I'll throw all my heroes that way" so chances are you won't get too much of a hero rush sort of thing. However the person may attack with their heroes in fleets and assaults. I just feel you guys are judging before you've even played the game or the demo and that is not really fair.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

i have to agree that the Hero Number is quite high but the amount of hero's that a team can have from the start you have to purchase some of the hero's like ERd Squadron and some of them do play special roles in the game.

[RogueCommander]

You are mixing this with space.Space has a pop cap of 20 but each unit takes up a different amount of it. On land the pop cap is different. Instead of having each unit take up a different amount of "population" you can only have 10 units.See the difference?Oh and I forgot to mention that some structures can make units that do not count against the 10 unit limit. I believe barracks is one that makes infantry that doesnt count against it(not 100% sure)

[noian]

You are mixing this with space.Space has a pop cap of 20 but each unit takes up a different amount of it. On land the pop cap is different. Instead of having each unit take up a different amount of "population" you can only have 10 units.See the difference?Oh and I forgot to mention that some structures can make units that do not count against the 10 unit limit. I believe barracks is one that makes infantry that doesnt count against it(not 100% sure)

Yes I believe thats right. I think you can also garrison units(like reinforcements) and of course you have reinforcements and if your fleets alive, air raids.

[Xyvik]

Hmm...suddenly my idea on these matters has shifted. While I beleive that more ground unit types is still called for, I keep forgetting that EaW spans several planets and a Galaxy, in which case it'll be very hard for all 7/8 heroes to be in the same place at once, hence the strategicl considerations of the number isn't what it would be if we were dealing with one-map battles.

 

Therefore I relinquish my doubts as to the number of heroes and bow gracefully to the whim of Petroglyph.

 

However, the tactical consideration of all heroes being in the same place at once must be brought into consideration. Hopefully the bounty hunters will be enough, in combination with regular units.

 

Time will tell.

[JanGaarni]

You may have a Hero Limit, only 2 Heroes allowed for 1 battle.

 

Something to ask in the next Q&A I guess.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

yeah there are alot of things that we'd like answered next time but could have been asked last time if the moderators hadn't dedicated that to almost mass Mod questions so can we at least have one Q&A session now that answers some of the basic questions that have started to poke holes in what was looking to be the hottest star wars game this century?

[Hadoken13]

this century? it is only 2005(soon to be 6) 'the best SW game this century isn't really that hard to make when you have had little to no competition!

 

i just hope that the heroes aren't alll allowed on the same planet. i liked the hero limit but that would prolly make other people mad...making a game is sooo complicated......

[Gen.Vader]

as long as you have the reinforcements..

 

you can repel anything!

 

most of my planets are going to be stocked with AA and AI everywhere....

 

not even han solo or chewie can dodge 200 screaming laser bolts homed in on them

 

[Xyvik]

Which is why Tarkin invented the Death Star

 

NOTE: I do not, under any circumstances, agree with the pile of twisted crap that Episode 2 pumped out about the Geo-bugs being the designers of the Death Star. Grand Moff Tarkin conceived the idea, and those of the Maw instution are the ones who designed it. Not little bug-eyed wannabe idiots.

/endrant

[Foshjedi2004]

Well the EU will have to be rewritten won't it!!! GAY AS....

[plokoon9619]

as long as you have the reinforcements..

 

you can repel anything!

 

most of my planets are going to be stocked with AA and AI everywhere....

 

not even han solo or chewie can dodge 200 screaming laser bolts homed in on them

 

 

but then you realize the pop cap is full and you can only have 4 plus han solo's ship takes 5000 shots to be removed.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

sorry you can't re-write the EU that's impossible and un ethical LA will just have to write it out of the film and he can write the Midi-Chlorian stuff out as well cause thats a load of Horse-Hockey to.

[vasuba_pff]

Lucas in a commentary went on to explain the geonosian thing more. They arent the designers but the contractors. They were given the plans to make and thats what they do.

 

They are Makers of weapons of war that arent regulated by the Republic so it enabled Palpatine to have that worked on without snoopy regulators etc.

[Shalashaska]

Coming back on topic...

 

This is where 'losing a battle on purpose' come in handy: Concentrate your forces, when on a low-level planet, on the hero: boom, he's dead and MAYBE you've lost the battle, but you can counter-attack else-where, and he doesn't have a hero there!!

 

Remember, the battle to be won are the land ones cause they are the ones who count for conquering a planet, so massing a anti-hero force on a non-space protected world is a perfect trap and counter to heroes. This is where strategy rolls in. Make holes in your defenses where your ennemy will fall... and won't go out.

 

And if 7 or 8 heroes can keep safe 7 or 8 planets(that is a supposition), they can't do anything against the 44-7=37 others that are producing like crazy... and the other 8 or 7 heroes.

 

Using hero at their full-potential will be, IMHO, rather tricky, and won't be unbalancing, but instead ONE OF the condition of victory.

 

Well that is if people want it implemented. Why wouldn't they? Maybe they feel more comfy againt odds and numbers rather than a trump card? Well Well people! come on, strategy is about that: your best elements, where there are the most useful: Heroes are just them, and they can be at the wrong moment at the wrong place, as well as you OR your ennemy can fail in this... If you don't want to play checks then don't play strategy games either...

This is just an affair of adaptation!

 

To come to this, there is a 'no-hero' mod for WCIII, It'll be as easy to get the heroes out of EaW I guess! So this game will come in flavour for everyone!

 

Hum

.

..

... isn't that the best way not to encounter people to play online????

[Xyvik]

Your grasp of strategy is rather commendable, Shalashaska, and was along the same line of thinking of my own. Which is why I previously stated that I am renouncing my opinions on the heroes and am now looking forward to the challenges.

 

Moving the battlefield from just one small map to an entire galaxy brings out the true meaning of strategy, including your mentioned sacraficial attacks, feints, flanks, you name it. I'm looking forward to this more than ever!