Capital Ship Shields

[Makwu]

Vader, please don't say that. Next thing you know we will have a petro designer ussing your quote and rebutting "Its the same reason that the powercore for the shields array has to go outside of the shields"

 

Although in many of the technical drawings such as this one from the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels here list the globes as shields, most indepth research has concluded they are sensor arrays. It was not the distruction of the globe that brought down the shields, but rather a barage by admiral ackbar at a consentrated point which allowed the fighter in episode 6 to destroy the sensors. (Which is a great first target after loss of shields because it is easy to take out, even for a lone fighter, and has devestating consequences).

 

During the Battle of Endor, Admiral Ackbar realised that the mighty flagship could be defeated if his Calamarian cruisers subjected the shields to an especially concerted barrage, resulting in shield failure and exposure of sensitive structures (eg. bridge and scanner globes) to pinpoint starfighter strafing.

 

The Star Wars Technical commentaries is the best source of info on the matter. Please read here

[Joshinator]

And we could use some common sence. Watching ROTJ, when the fighter kills one of those domes, the next shot goes inside the bridge, and we hear the quote, "Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shield!" "Intensify the forward batteries, I don't want anything to get through!"

[Ghostly_Substance]

Why the hell would you engineer a shield that sticks out and with the right firepower destroy the dome. The designer should have been forced to remake the Star Destroyer into a better weapon.

[Joshinator]

Yeah i hear ya man. The Mon Cal's had the right idea with there ships, all internal, hard to knock out.

[Hadoken13]

a possiblitlity:

well the tie fighter was a stupid idea it had no protection only cuz sheilds were more expensive so maby in order to make a sd cheaper the imps decided super good sheilds weren't needed cuz a sd had so mush fire power? maby?

[Makwu]

The Executor's shielding defences were one of its most formidable features [according to the Williamson Classic STAR WARS comic strips]. The ship was considered virtually unassailable in the years between the battles of Yavin and Hoth.

[Samheyn]

Might be that lucas recognized that his "shield dome" idea would be a serious error in the star destroyers design. But I still think that he didn't realize this problem until EP6 was released. And we know that many imperial ships and ground units (even the stormtroopers and their "helmets"/easy-to-spot white armor) have major design errors. So I think it is more a try of the EU writers and SW fans to erase this from the canon star wars universe. It is the same problem as the Executors length. Some sources speak of 7,2 km length, others of 8 km and fans analysed the movies so they came to 11 km in total. All these different informations are used in books, games, online libraries etc. so no one knows which is the actual size.

 

One more thing to mention : The star wars combat simulator games (X-Wing Series) are one of the oldest lucas series with personal influence by george lucas. It is most likely that the ships descriptions are 100% canon. I prefer to trust a lucas certified game from lucas arts than trust fan information (magazines, boards, fansites - even theforce.net) or some EU writers. And as this game is a Lucas Arts game the domes most likely will be shield domes... (why should they change this concept they used in every game from the original xwing to rebell assault and xwing alliance?)

[JanGaarni]

Actually, LucasArts is a game developer, and has always been a low priority source when you look for info on most thing.

For christ sakes, they can't even decide how long the Executor is: 8km, 12.8km, make up your minds.

(it's measured to be 17.6km though)

 

The oldest official reference to the domes being sensor domes is from 1978 schematics of the star destroyer, where also the ships class is mentioned: Imperator.

 

No G-canon source has stated this before or since, thus it takes precedence over anything C-level canon published later, no matter how poorly WEG and other sources have researched on it.

[Makwu]

Thank you Jan, welcome to the boards

[Ghostly_Substance]

Sweet, welcome to the boards and thanks for the helpful information

 

Stupid internet of mine.......

[Foshjedi2004]

Its nice to see yet another member of the EAW universe joining us here on the PFF forums. I have read some of your contributions on Lucasforums and am awaiting such contributions on our humble Forum.

[Teradyn_pff]

This is from the reference that Makwu linked to:

CINEFEX Proof

Wayne Poe has provided a crucial quotation. This quote comes from the professional report of Richard Edlund about ILM's work on Return of the Jedi, in the journal CINEFEX in 1983. This is a primary, contemporary source. There is no more authoritative source on ROTJ.

 

 

We're also still working on the sequence where Mad Max crashes his A-wing into Vader's ship and causes the star destroyer to lose control and crash into the Deathstar. The penetration shot with the mushroom-cloud explosion we've had for some time, and we've got the shot where the ship's been hit and is starting to heel over. A very large explosion is coming out of the bridge area and it's causing several others to go as well; and one of the big radar domes up on top has been blown away, and that's spewing flames. It's pretty spectacular. Between that sort of closeup of the bridge section and the long-shot of the surface, we need two more cuts of the ship continuing to heel over and dropping towards the Deathstar like an arrow. We've shot a number of elements on those - explosions and things that have to be projected onto the miniatures - and so they're pretty much ready to go. Don Dow will be shooting those tomorrow.

CINEFEX #13, p.55, 3 February 1983

— Richard Edlund (who shared ILM's 1983 Academy Award for ROTJ special effects).

 

The intention of ILM and the depiction of the movie no longer show any ambiguity. The globes on the Executor's tower are "radar domes", i.e. scanners, just as their location, form and real-life naval counterparts have always implied. Now we have absolute proof, above and beyond any contradiction posed in second-generation spin-off products.

 

The loss of a globe on the Executor was not the cause of shield failure, but rather an opportunistic attack permitted by shield failure occuring moments earlier. The naïve "testicle theory" of star destroyer vulnerability (i.e. globes primarily as "shield generators" yet somehow unprotected by their own emissios) is effectively dead and buried.

 

The domes are Sensors... end of story. Whether or not Petroglyph gets this right, however, is another story entirely. I have reason to suspect that given their misguided interpretation of the situation on Hoth and the shield generator placement that they will show the domes to be shield generators like in most of the Star Wars flight simulator games: X-Wing, Rebel Strike, Rogue Squadron, etc.

[Garbageben]

You are forgetting my friend the fact that Lucasarts has a say in the game. More than likely they will keep star destroyers the same as they were in the flight sims. Then again they may not. We'll have to see when we get our hands on the game.

[Popcorn2008]

If anyone has ever played the flight sim game, TIE Figter the domes on any Star Destroyer are Shield Generators. When you target a Star Destroyer, simply use the (.) key to cycle through the seperate parts of the ship and the domes will be selected and in your HUD it will say Shield Gen.

So in the gaming world the domes are shield gens, no matter what they may have been in the actual movie lol.

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, I don't disagree with you Garbageben and Popcorn2008, that the domes will probably be shield generators in the game. I do dissagree with the idea that it is right in any way shape or form. Lucas may want to skew, self-contradict, screw up, etc the story of Star Wars, but that doesn't make it right. It is a pretty sad state of affairs when the author can't even keep his own story straight. Not to mention all of the horribly obviously "Hollywood" extras and changes thrown into Ep I-III just to make more "money".

[Foshjedi2004]

Damn straight. Too much confusion. Whatever I say can be contradicted by some report. The only things I can definately say are the events of the EU books.

[Garbageben]

Well, I don't disagree with you Garbageben and Popcorn2008, that the domes will probably be shield generators in the game. I do dissagree with the idea that it is right in any way shape or form. Lucas may want to skew, self-contradict, s**** up, etc the story of Star Wars, but that doesn't make it right. It is a pretty sad state of affairs when the author can't even keep his own story straight. Not to mention all of the horribly obviously "Hollywood" extras and changes thrown into Ep I-III just to make more "money".

Lol I'm not saying that they should be shield domes. I just said that Lucasarts will probably keep them as shield domes just to maintain consistency with the several last games they have released. I personally want them to be sensor domes.

[JanGaarni]

That is true, and something we all (probably) are thinking too.

 

However, I have noticed that in most (if not all) movies and screenshots, I've seen the star destroyers getting blown up before anyone has touched the domes. Which could mean they arn't going to touch the widely debated subject at all and simply ignore it completely.

 

Which wouldn't be a bad decision in my opinion.

[Popcorn2008]

However, I have noticed that in most (if not all) movies and screenshots, I've seen the star destroyers getting blown up before anyone has touched the domes. Which could mean they arn't going to touch the widely debated subject at all and simply ignore it completely.

Well technically in TIE Fighter you could still kill a Star Destroyer with the domes intact. It would just take longer, if you were to kill the domes it would drastically reduce the shielding though. So it could be there ignoring the subject or it could be they just didnt bother with destroying the shield domes.

[Makwu]

This is a lively debate but becoming rather repetitive. The domes were originally sensors by the ship designers. (Circa 1980). The way the ROTJ was edited, it is a bit confusing and looks as though the sensor domes were linked to the shield. In the book, Ackbar made a consentrated attack on one point of the shields causing that grid to fail and allowed the A-wing to sneak in. The first sims came out and they needed a way for a small fighter to take out a capital ship and they chose the sensor domes as a shield generator.

 

If you put any thought into that, its obvious that a single fighter could never take out a capital ship with guns alone - im sure if you made a mathematical equation of the Capitals energy + shield strength/recharge rate compared to the fighters energy + gun strength, it would be obvious the the fighter would run out of energy and that the capital ships shields would never fall bellow 99.999%.

 

The C-canon got it wrong from the start and unfortunetly the error has been repeated over and over. And most likely will be. End of story.

 

EDIT: G/C Typo

[JanGaarni]

Ehm, I don't think G-Canon has ever stated them to be shield domes.

Are you sure you didn't mean to say C-Canon there?

[Teradyn_pff]

Even though they were used incorrectly in the games, I remember (i think correctly) that maybe X-Wing or X-Wing alliance got their function (if they had actually been shield generators) right. You had to get the shields on the Star Destroyer down before you could damage them and if you did, the shields stopped regenerating.

 

This is my query though, what can we deduce from the videos so far? I remember that in one, an Imperial fleet moved in and the fighters and bombers were sent to attack a Mon Cal. This was E3 video I think. Anyway, the bombers made a couple attacks on the Mon Cal and it looked like there was no shield graphics/interaction at all. It may be because the bombs/missles can penetrate shields somewhat due to their solid properties or whatever (see discussions on ray shielding vs deflector shields). Another video (first one where we see the death star fire on a planet, not the trailer), shows a very large force of Imperials move in and engage a large group of rebels. Almost immediately things start blowing up on the respective ships which leads me to believe either they dont have the shields modeled yet (waiting on particle effects, balance issues, etc?) or this is how it will be.

[Makwu]

Possibly shield generators are not even a hardpoint. Each hardpoint has its own shield/hp.

[Foshjedi2004]

I am unsure. Maybe this is a question we should put to the Dev's during the interview?

[Makwu]

eh, next page