Rebellion 2 : Community Involvement

[DavidAdas]

Hey guys!

 

First off, is there anyone here who is a talented artist or graphic designer? I need some fresh new images for characters, ships, events, menus, et cetera. Please just PM me if you have any experience, we could use the help!

 

Also, I'd like to take a moment now to explore your creative minds. What ideas do you have for the game? Shoot them all at me at once. I'll try to respond to you via a PM and perhaps pick your brain further. What characters do you want to see and why? Are there any events you'd like to add to the game? New units? What about the game's previous mechanics did annoyed you and what do you think could add more depth to the game? While I'm in the process of building the previous game I should be thinking about changes to it, so give me what you've got!

[Evaders99]

Interface, interface, interface. If you can distill a galaxy worth of information in the way that Supreme Commander or Sins of a Solar Empire has, you will have overcome the major flaw with Rebellion and gain quite an interest. I don't have any particular expertise in the area, but that and an open modification system would be the priorities I see for such a project.

[DavidAdas]

That's a pretty good idea. Instead of just having frame-based planet clusters, have them built as animation. Thus you could "zoom" in to each sector and make your game choices as the planets revolve and rotate, then zoom out to see the galaxy as a whole. That'd be neat. I wont be able to do that, though, until I've finished all the other classes. I'll need to stick with frames to test out the other features first.

 

And of course it'll have editing capabilities! Everything from removing and adding players and planets (and sectors) to... making your own events. If you've got any more ideas on what should be editable, let me know.

 

Anyone else? Don't leave me hanging here

[Jahled]

I am drooling here

 

I am paid to more or less get to work and start-up Photoshop CS3 until it's time to go home these days, and am more or less in charge of all the images for the Zoological Society of London (it runs London Zoo), and am currently trying to centralize the images on a single data base with appropriate image information, and so could potentially help out, but my problem is time. After that type of day, I simply don't have the energy or will to fire up CS3 at home at the moment, despite taking work home with me. I'm not even technically a graphic designer but seem to be approached by every department with stuff to do, even our own official graphic designer! Oh, my lot in life.

 

I can't draw either, period; Lord La Forge is our man there. He's the genius behind the graphic stuff in Reloaded

 

If you want any Jedi hotties, assuming I have images to mash; my whiry fingers might find time, if I find the source agreeable

[DarthTex]

Anyone else? Don't leave me hanging here

Wow! Where should I start? This could take some time Instead, have you visited the What are people's 5 ESSENTIAL wants for Reb2? thread? There are many good ideas there (not necessarily all of them though). I don't want to waste time & space re-hashing everything that's already been stated, so make sure you check it out. I like the idea of making the game more detailed, but I think it needs to keep the same ... "overall scale" it's in. Basically keep the game galactic with the "smallest" actions system specific (like the ship tatical battles). Adding a ground assault scenario would be nice, but nothing FPS (first person shooter). Empire at War's (I've never played it) ground assaults from what I've seen are "too detailed". Controlling individual hero's maybe taking this too far, but otherwise something along those lines. In fact I may go add some more ideas to the What are people's 5 ESSENTIAL wants for Reb2? thread!

[RenegadeMax]

Yep, I'm with Tex on this. There are a TON of great ideas floating around, but too much complication takes an already HUGE game and just makes it impossible. One of the complaints (you won't hear it around here...) about Rebellion was that it was TOO involved, too much to micro-manage. I would say that it was great, but getting close to overload. Like E said, much could be done with a much slicker interface (that, along with balancing such a big game would be the biggest challenges, I'd wager).

 

So, my two cents? I'd love more missions available for all unit types (not just characters and spec forces). A universal mission manager system would help. Let fighters raid supply convoys and escort ships protect them. Let characters steal ships or persuade their crews to defect. Let Artoo slice Imp computers for intel. Let Vader visit an under-construction Death Star to "increase worker productivity". Random events like bounty hunters or mercenaries for hire, smugglers offer to sell resources, etc. would be cool too. All these things can take place "off camera" just like current missions, so managing them is the main logistical challenge.

 

Other stuff: experience for all units, the ability to capture (maybe even research these ships via reverse-engineering), better fleet group management, more combat options... none of these are new ideas, but all could be included without making gameplay too much more complicated, I think.

 

And definitely check out the other Rebellion 2 threads for tons more great ideas.

[Jahled]

Yep, I'm with Tex on this. There are a TON of great ideas floating around, but too much complication takes an already HUGE game and just makes it impossible. One of the complaints (you won't hear it around here...) about Rebellion was that it was TOO involved, too much to micro-manage. I would say that it was great, but getting close to overload. Like E said, much could be done with a much slicker interface (that, along with balancing such a big game would be the biggest challenges, I'd wager).

 

So, my two cents? I'd love more missions available for all unit types (not just characters and spec forces). A universal mission manager system would help. Let fighters raid supply convoys and escort ships protect them. Let characters steal ships or persuade their crews to defect. Let Artoo slice Imp computers for intel. Let Vader visit an under-construction Death Star to "increase worker productivity". Random events like bounty hunters or mercenaries for hire, smugglers offer to sell resources, etc. would be cool too. All these things can take place "off camera" just like current missions, so managing them is the main logistical challenge.

 

Other stuff: experience for all units, the ability to capture (maybe even research these ships via reverse-engineering), better fleet group management, more combat options... none of these are new ideas, but all could be included without making game play too much more complicated, I think.

 

And definitely check out the other Rebellion 2 threads for tons more great ideas.

 

Hehe, elements of Galactic Battlegrounds slipping in here.. but woo, your final paragraph makes what is perhaps possibly realistic; i'm simply up for a huger galaxy, more characters (with some defection salsa, perhaps), tons more resources, and perhaps the element of experience for units; perhaps even including ships and ground batteries, which is something I think I remember bumping into with a Red Alert 2 mod a few years ago. You would certainly look after these precious elite units, and do stuff like make the effort to repair damaged elite fighter squadrons at ship yards, and try and and cause uprisings on enemy worlds where elite LNR's or Gen Cons are present; as to capture them and their experience.

 

Also perhaps a new random event, controlling these dudes, like they have passed on their experience to some random 'unit' somewhere; be it Gen Cons, an infantry unit, capital ship, or fighter squadron..

[Jahled]

Weird thing just happened to me earlier. The AI was doing it's usual illogical thing in the Corellian Sector, and randomly blockading systems with two unarmed heavy transports here and their; so I sent off an Interdictor on it's own to intercept these two annoying, illogical rascals; only to find once I obviously let the computer handle the out come of the battle, given it's rather bloody obvious conclusion, one of them was destroyed but one escaped! Excuse me? They are completely unarmed! Funniest of of all, my Interdictor sustained damage!

 

Must of been rammed I guess

 

Christ the guys who made this game seriously didn't give a fucking toss did they. Hack this engine to shreads

[DarthTex]

... given it's rather bloody obvious conclusion, one of them was destroyed but one escaped! Excuse me? They are completely unarmed! Funniest of of all, my Interdictor sustained damage!

 

Must of been rammed I guess

Maybe it was modified with a HIMS?

 

THAT needs to be added to Rebellion 2! It could be a researched item. After it's researched, you could have it built on your ship as a mod. Maybe research 2 or 3 versions for large, medium and small ships. Of course you would have to sacrifice something to get this do-hickey onboard. Large ships could sacrifice troops or fighters, the same with medium ships -or- some hull points -or- both, smaller ships would have to sacrifice hull, engines, shield generators, whatever. You could only install the appropriate size HIMS to the correct size ship (i.e. no small HIMS for small ships on an ISD). One size does not fit all.

 

It would cost a small fortune to outfit your entire fleet, but to add this just to your most important ships could save them if there was an unfortunate ambush.

[Jahled]

... given it's rather bloody obvious conclusion, one of them was destroyed but one escaped! Excuse me? They are completely unarmed! Funniest of of all, my Interdictor sustained damage!

 

Must of been rammed I guess

Maybe it was modified with a HIMS?

 

THAT needs to be added to Rebellion 2! It could be a researched item. After it's researched, you could have it built on your ship as a mod. Maybe research 2 or 3 versions for large, medium and small ships. Of course you would have to sacrifice something to get this do-hickey onboard. Large ships could sacrifice troops or fighters, the same with medium ships -or- some hull points -or- both, smaller ships would have to sacrifice hull, engines, shield generators, whatever. You could only install the appropriate size HIMS to the correct size ship (i.e. no small HIMS for small ships on an ISD). One size does not fit all.

 

It would cost a small fortune to outfit your entire fleet, but to add this just to your most important ships could save them if there was an unfortunate ambush.

 

Interesting. I hadn't seen that before, but one thing that has always bothered me about the 'gravity well' concept in the first place, is (whilst it's obviously included to conclude game play) it doesn't actually make that much sense! Why not have them on planets to prevent ships entering orbit escaping? The Death Stars were large enough and easily capable of having them, but I seem to know why they don't during gameplay (that would be a seriously grim fate for an arriving Alliance fleet with a DS protected by a shield! )

 

Rather than gravity wells, I would have preferred some game play option where perhaps depending on the Admiral's leadership attribute, you can jump into a system more or less on top of the ships in orbit, based upon navigational skill; ie: with the potential to wipe out a few ships before they have the chance to flee. This would enable large fleets to still potentially flee, would prevent the enevitable hoarding of ships into super massive fleets experienced in gameplay (given they have a chance of survival protecting individual worlds) and further the need for Palpatine to remain on Coruscant for that Imperial leadership bonus.

[DarthTex]

Interesting. I hadn't seen that before, but one thing that has always bothered me about the 'gravity well' concept in the first place, is (whilst it's obviously included to conclude game play) it doesn't actually make that much sense! Why not have them on planets to prevent ships entering orbit escaping? The Death Stars were large enough and easily capable of having them, but I seem to know why they don't during gameplay (that would be a seriously grim fate for an arriving Alliance fleet with a DS protected by a shield! )

 

Rather than gravity wells, I would have preferred some game play option where perhaps depending on the Admiral's leadership attribute, you can jump into a system more or less on top of the ships in orbit, based upon navigational skill; ie: with the potential to wipe out a few ships before they have the chance to flee. This would enable large fleets to still potentially flee, would prevent the enevitable hoarding of ships into super massive fleets experienced in gameplay (given they have a chance of survival protecting individual worlds) and further the need for Palpatine to remain on Coruscant for that Imperial leadership bonus.

Well, I think it's mainly a giant compromise between game mechanics, semantics and how the SW universe works. Unfortunately in this game, a "system" and a "planet" are the same. Now if "systems" could be depicted as true "solar systems" with multiple "planets" therein, it would bring more tactical gameplay into effect. Interdictors (while still being effective "locally") wouldn't have a large impact on gameplay as they currently have. Unfortunately, I think the complexity of the game would grow, which at the time of Rebellion, was way out of its league. I haven't really played any other RTS space fleet games to know "how" this would best be handled. Maybe putting something together with hyperspace routes (faster travel when using these) as opposed to the "current" method of hyperspace travel. Personally, I think a specific "survey ship" would be cool to "map out" hyperspace routes for your side (other than those already galactically known). The Empire had secret hyperspace routes to the Deep Core the New Republic didn't know about. And as someone already mentioned, maybe there could be a way to "gain the knowledge" through espionage?

 

Also, I think it would be interesting to have "toggles" for the interdictors, such than you could turn "on/off" the interdiction fields on specific interdictor ships in your fleet. Personally, if the interdictor is "interdictoring" it should't have so much excess power to be firing gobs of weapons; defensive lasers OK, a few turbolasers maybe, full broadsides - NOT. Interdictors could have a localized "sphere of influence" (probably "normalized" for game play), such that you might need a couple in order to "interdict" an entire enemy fleet. Besides, if you have a large fleet, the enemy might not notice an interdictor hiding amongst the ships, at least not until it's too late. The current red/yellow pinwheel effect constantly going is always a dead give away; plus why have two (ususally), because one is enough.

 

Just some more things to expand upon and detail out such that a new Rebellion 2 would be so much more fun

[DavidAdas]

Why haven't I responded to this thread yet? My apologies Please continue to post more though! You guys have some great ideas

 

Jahled, we could always use someone with photoshop (CS3) skills. If you ever want to donate them let me know! I mean, I can't even get Mara Jade into the Imperial background heh. And yes, AI will be smarter lol. The logic of it is something that'll take me a while but random battles will be based on ship and Admiral stats for sure. Also, as for the gravity wells, we will have exactly what DarthTex suggested: toggles. I'd like the game itself to have very little difference from the old save for tweaks and bug fixes, but it'll come with a damn large list of toggles! If you want, I'll throw no-gravity wells into it. I will still look into better balancing gravity wells. Perhaps put a timer/charger on them or give them some sort of range.

 

DarthTex, I've read through that post as well. Most of the things listed in the "Top 5..." thread I indeed have on my mind. Most will be delivered via the game editor (such as planet ownership). As for planetary battles, I may not change much, but I will add a system to help you make better choices. For instance, you'll be able to select which units will take part in a planetary invasion (as you likely don't want to send down units better suited for defense). Thoughts? Also, your idea for ship upgrades is fantastic! If you want, make me a list of different ship items/upgrades and whatnot, and I'll totally work those in. Very Homeworld 2 / Starfleet Command like!

 

RenegadeMax, I hope to have a "normal" and "advanced" mode to let you decide how much micromanaging you want to do. Now as for the missions you suggested, that'd be quite a lot to micromanage with. However, we'll have an event creator as part of our RebEd2, so you'll be able to add those events if you wish to. Exp for all units will be one feature, I hope. Ship capture is one issue I'm still debating though. There's a significant balance issue there, mainly with the Imperials who have very powerful fleets. If all you needed to do was disable a ship to capture it *and of course win the battle*, the Imperials would have a field day. I'm deciding on that still.[/color]

Edited June 16, 2008 by DavidAdas

[DarthTex]

DarthTex, ... Also, your idea for ship upgrades is fantastic! If you want, make me a list of different ship items/upgrades and whatnot, and I'll totally work those in. Very Homeworld 2 / Starfleet Command like! ...

I'll see what I can do. I've never played Homeworld 2 / Starfleet Command, but I get the idea

[DavidAdas]

Haha, so much for my HTML coding ability. Got all the text color horribly wrong. But yeah send them up!

[DarthTex]

A caveat for you though: I'm not sure if in the original Rebellion game whether all of the ship startup stats are stored in a record for each ship (i.e. hull strength, manueverability, TL's, etc.) and if there's someway to have a current value as well as the initial startup value. My example being if I take an ISD and remove all ground troops and/or fighters and replace them with more armor and weapons. If there were to be an increase in ship mass, manueverability would be lower. And should the hull ever take damage, the "game" needs to remember this particular ship has more armor and not just default to the original "ship class" values.

 

Another direction could be to keep the ship mass constant, and that could be a limit so that ship mobility stats don't have to be modified.

 

It'll just depend on how you are going to program and modify ship stats during a game