I may be Dutch but...

[Guest Scathane]

I'm neither right wing nor am I left. I don't bear a racist grudge. I am a human being who feels that freedom of speech and thought are among the most fundamental rights. I do not agree with Geert Wilders. In fact, I think he's a dumb fuck who doesn't make me particularly prone on saying that we share the same nationality. Nevertheless, I think we share the same basic rights and - as such (even though I don't agree with him) - also think he has the right to freedom of speech and expression.

 

Unfortunately, LiveLeak.com saw themselves forced to remove his movie in favor of the safety of their staff (which, BTW, I consider a wise and admirable decision). Because the text they currently show on their homepage will eventually disappear I would record it humbly in these threads:

Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.

This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.

Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.

We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.

It is a sad day for freedom of speech indeed...

 

 

P.S. - I must say I find the completely robotized and automated censorship of the word dumbF-U-C-K rather hilarious!

[DarthTofu]

I've never been a huge fan of Islam, much less religions as a whole, but I still care about freedom of speech AND religion. Publishing an internet movie that comes down so hard on one group of people and that tries to kick out parts of their belief systems- that's just not right. That's discrimination against one group of people that are unpopular, comparable to Hitler's attacks on the Jews. I'm glad that you don't agree with that bigoted jerk, Scath.

 

That said, I do agree with you on the freedom of speech thing. Violence should not be met with violence, else all is lost. Both parties are to blame- the movie for being so inflammatory and the people who send threats for letting it incite them to such heights- but I'd really like to see some more moderation from the religious communities.

[Mad78]

Freedom of speech is important. And while I believe that it is not in itself bad to make a film about a religion I believe you want at least to be part of that religion before doing so.

Still it is ridiculous that staff would have received threats.

[Eagle]

Though haven´t seen that movie I can´t say anything about it. I´ve just heard that it was some kind of provocation, which I feel is something we don´t need in that bad climate which exists nowadays since at least 911. Same goes for some pics about Mohammed published in some danish newspapers.

 

Freedom of speech is a very important thing and I´m not willing to shut up just because a certain (radical) group doesn´t like to hear what I have to say. Neither if they are christian or from some other culture or religion. But as a politician or journalist you also have to know when there is the right time to publish some kind of (positive?) provocation. And that´s not the right time at the moment. I expect such a kind of sensibility from some journalists who supposed to be wise, to know when it´s ok to release something like that. Freedom of speech and criticism should be holy, but racism in any form shall not be tolerated from no one.

[Darth_Rob]

The whole trouble is that an attack on someone's faith is very, very hurtful to that person. Some people can take it in stride, turn the other cheek so to speak, and blow it off. Others take it to heart, and are very offended by it. I totally support the freedom of speech, as the ability to speak your mind is very important.

 

I guess Im just saying that some people hold their faith very high up, and are easily offended by criticism. In many societies faith is a very important concept, and as we all know many wars throughout the years have been championed by religious beliefs. As for me, people can tell me that God is a huge green hippo with wings, and I'll just laugh it off and take it in stride. It doesn't matter what others think, only what I believe.

 

Faith is a very powerful human characteristic, and I just think we should all tolerate a lot more in respect to others beliefs. Humans and religious beliefs are so diverse that you simply cannot be so staunch on your own that you will hurt others just to prove yourself the superior faith.

[BadSamaritan]

Ok, I am completely lost on parts of this topic. I have no idea who Geert Wilders is, nor have I ever seen the movie in question. However, I feel the need to speak my mind on the topic of free speech.

 

Freedom of speech is double edged sword. While we have the right to say what we want, when we want, and how we want to say it, some people take it to the extreme, using such rights to send messages filled with hate and threats. And sadly, some people see this as uneeded freedoms, and look to halt such things, no matter what the cost.

 

In the process of one side trying to preserve their right to say what is on their mind, and the other side trying to halt the slew of threats, you eventually come to a point where you have to ask 'when is to much, to much?'. When does freedom of speech get to the point where people are going to far, and when do the people who try to limit such speech go to far? Its a very gray area, and one that people will be searching for for quite some time. Sadly, I doubt people will find such an area, and this fight will be going on for as logn as the nitwits that inhabit this planet are still breathing.

 

But, until everyone comes to an agreement on the freedom os speech, and what it actually entails, we will have to live with the fact that we have to watch what we say. In this day and age, with the turmoil that is going on all over the world, the simplest of comments can start a wave of fire from either side of whatever conflict you are commenting on. So we all must learn to watch what we say, as our comments can bring threats down upon the people who respect freedom of speech enough to bring it to the masses, instead of down upon the people who said the comments. It is sad that in this day and age, we have to watch what we say to protect the lives of others, but it something that must be done.

[Slocket]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29

 

The movie and information. The movie was removed due to threats from our ever so peaceful Islamic fanatics?

 

It seems that Islam is very intolerant of any other religion. If you say anything bad about it, you die.

 

I think Islam will eventual sow the seeds of its own destruction.

 

A religion of hate cannot last forever by definition.

 

The world rid us of Nazism, so will Islam go to...

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Geert wilders film: The important points it missed

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ae_1206832681

 

Good read. The evil acts in the name of this "religion" speak volumes over mere "words".

[BadSamaritan]

It seems that Islam is very intolerant of any other religion.

 

A religion of hate cannot last forever by definition.

 

So, you think the entire Catholic religion should have died off centuries ago? Over the course of history, the Catholic church has more blood on its hands than any other religion that has ever existed, period. Islam doesn't even compare to them, even with all the havoc the extremists are wreaking.

 

Also, when it comes to intolerance towards other religions, Islamic extremists are today what the Catholic church was between 400 and 600 years ago. Give them time to grow up, and they will.

[Slocket]

It seems that Islam is very intolerant of any other religion.

 

A religion of hate cannot last forever by definition.

 

So, you think the entire Catholic religion should have died off centuries ago? Over the course of history, the Catholic church has more blood on its hands than any other religion that has ever existed, period. Islam doesn't even compare to them, even with all the havoc the extremists are wreaking.

 

Also, when it comes to intolerance towards other religions, Islamic extremists are today what the Catholic church was between 400 and 600 years ago. Give them time to grow up, and they will.

 

Oh, I agree complete. Christians had their bloody good time killing and converting back in the middle ages. Gladly they got over it. After all, Jesus preached love one another, which made those fanatics back then hypocrits.

 

I hope the majority of Muslims who are not fanatic will somehow calm down those that are giving them a bad name.

 

Many men, rulers, popes, kings, killed thousands in the name of religion to further their own greed or warped ideas.

 

So either a religion gets over it, or it will die off. Catholics did reform itself into something more respectable, though it did take a long, long time.

[DarthTofu]

Islam is an actual valid belief system. When you look at the moderates they're really quite rational, good people. Heck, when Malcom X made his pilgramage to Mecca he suddenly became one hell of a lot more peaceful. Granted, this got him gunned down by fellow black Muslims, but that's beside the point. There will always be crazy extremists in any religion, or even any lack of religion.

 

Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden- they're the few people giving a whole group of people a bad name. All atheists are not Joseph Stalin. All Muslims are not Osama bin Laden. All Christians are not Adolf Hitler. To claim that a religion is bad based on a few people who are bad is ludicrous.

 

Scientology- that's another story. That's the church of "make the top officials really really rich." That one I will probably never defend.

[SOCL]

All Muslims are not Osama bin Laden.

 

Everyone does realize he is not a Muslim, right? Why do you suppose this Rev. Wright controversy is so prominent, much less exists?