Paper Bags..

[Jahled]

Over here in blighty there has been some talk of a tax or charge on the use of plastic shopping bags, given the throw-away plastic shopping bags take decades to rot as rubbish, and are a pain in the arse in things like canals and rivers to wildlife.

 

I had this sudden thought though; on TV and in the movies, North Americans are always shown as taking home their groceries in paper bags..

 

Is this a true and typical reflection of US packaging? If so, why is it prevalent your side of the pond, whilst plastic bags are over here in mine? And finally, regardless of being obviously much more friendly to the environment, is it as practical in getting your groceries home?

 

I'm genuinely curious!

[OldFan]

I live in Chicagoland, in the Midwest. While we have a choice of paper or plastic, I almost always use plastic. The handles make it easier to carry multiple bags in one hand, I'm not usually buying enough at one time to fill a paper sack, and the stores tend to hide the paper (except for one chain in the far suburbs which offers paper unless you ask for plastic). I tend to reuse the plastic bags as trash bags for my smaller (i.e. bathroom) trash cans, and for any other application which calls for a clean and disposable liner-bag (wet clothes, muddy shoes, etc.).

 

I never thought about the stereotype of the paper sack to tote groceries on TV, but that's certainly how things were done when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's. I guess the (general) need to carry the paper bags by the bottom (and thus closer to the head) sells the point "I just went shopping" a little better on the screen...anyone else agree?

[tacoJoemeru]

I usually get plastic. However I've noticed that they accept plastic bags for recycling at most of the major stores here.

[DarthTofu]

We have a choice in Florida, but my family always gets paper or nothing. Plastic is essentially useless for us, but if we do wind up getting it through purchases at some place like Walmart that doesn't offer paper, we keep them in a larger bag in the closet, along with excess paper bags. We take the old paper grossery bags and put them in our trash cans with a plastic bag on the outside. We replace the plastic bag every few weeks/months depending on how much food gets slopped in, and simply remove the paper bag to the trash cans when it gets full, replacing it with another paper grocery bag.

 

I feel better about myself and the environment, now. I don't know that it's better for the environment to use paper bags, seeing as they are generally doubled up (IE one bag inside of another to ensure that they don't tear if you're too foolish to hold them from beneath as opposed to from above) thus using more trees in their creation, but they certainly will degrade quicker in a landfill. I honestly don't know where paper grocery bags are made, what trees are used in production, etc. I just always assumed that they were a better choice as they are a renewable resource. Most of my friends get stuff in plastic, however.

[Evaders99]

I always thought that paper was being fazed out to support plastic. I would guess it would cut down the amount of trees being used for paper. And plastic seems to be cheaper to produce. I don't know how it favors in terms of recycling, I guess paper would break down easier than plastics. Plastic or paper... we reduce, reuse, and recycle.

[Defender_16]

Arround here some of the grocery stores are starting to phase back in cloth bags that people can buy. Many others are simply reusing the plastic ones.

[Darth_Rob]

Most places around upstate New York do not even offer paper bags anymore.

 

It used to be a choice: paper or plastic. Now plastic has replaced paper.

 

I think the idea of cloth bags that you can buy and use is a good one. It would be like a car or a phone...something that a family needs. Everyone brings in their own bags, they would be much stronger than paper and plastic (and not break). Then when its dirty, you just throw the bags in with the wash. An absolutely brilliant idea, IMO.

[tacoJoemeru]

However when I saw the title to this thread, I must say, I was thinking it'd be about this:

 

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j34/akira9949/05jun21-paperbags.jpg

 

[Darth_Rob]

Nice one, Taco. I hadn't thought of that. In fact, I was quite curious as to the contents of this thread. For some reason, shopping and ugly girls did not register in my mind when paper bags were mentioned...

[SOCL]

We usually get a choice, but sometimes we don't and end up with one or the other; most recently brown paper bags. I hate to get either and try to use those reusable cloth "tote" bags, but tend to forget them nearly every time I go for groceries. I do have a need for plastic bags, however; my dog has a great need to poo, and I have a great desire to keep my backyard poo-free.

[Krytos]

It's been plastic over here since... well, since I can remember.

There's also been a similar discussion over the last year or three over taxing for plastic bags.

Currently, however, a most super markets have gone to bio-degradable plastic bags. Also, you can buy fabric/weave bags. They're larger and sturdier and you don't throw them away. Nice, except that you need to take them into the store too

Planning required

 

As for recycling, the obvious argument to that is that recycling often isn't a clean process and costs a crap load. Nevertheless, it's better than leaving it on the street

 

Over all, I'm still in the boat of the robust fabric weaves. Take them, if you haven't got enough on you (which is more likely than not) plastic bag it up. Recycle or re-use the bag, plastic bags have 101 uses! Like carrying other things ... and ... ah ... umm ... hmmm ... the only other two I can think of aren't nice Chroming and suicide

[Mad78]

Over here most major grocery stores offer very large paper bags but you have to pay for them. The smaller plastic ones are free.

[Jahled]

I never thought about the stereotype of the paper sack to tote groceries on TV, but that's certainly how things were done when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's. I guess the (general) need to carry the paper bags by the bottom (and thus closer to the head) sells the point "I just went shopping" a little better on the screen...anyone else agree?

 

This is something I hadn't thought about, especially reading some of the other replies to the thread. Also, your use of the term 'Paper sack.'

 

Nether less, I feel cheated and lied to by four decades of television!

 

The thrust of the argument over here is that plastic bags are a needless hazard to the environment, given they take so long to degrade. Please don't label me as a hippy on this issue, but if it were more practical, a paper alternative would be more friendly to our environment, given even as litter it begins to break down quickly. The current emphasis on recycling virtually everything in one's household (except for plastics!) would I assume balance the production of paper sacks in proportion to the felling of timber, given paper is something we are asked to leave in our recycling boxes (a week's worth of junk mail, magazines, newspapers, and cereal packets).

[DarthTex]

Well J, it seems it boils down to a) use paper, which ultimately means cutting down more trees + the results of processing, and twats who don't dispose of them correctly (bad for nature ), or b) using plastic, which means using oil by-products + the results of processing, and twats who don't dispose of them correctly (bad for nature ). Which is the lesser of two evils? Screwed either way

 

I use plastic. The plastic is supposed to be the bio-degradable kind, but I can't tell one plastic bag from another. I re-use most of them: trash bags, disposing of litter box kittie krunchies, temporarily storing/sorting items, or just recycling them. I'm a responsible type person, so I don't like "throwing away" anything that can be re-used, recycled, or at last resort put in the trash. You see back in the day, when people didn't have as many "possessions" as they do today, ... ... I think I'm hitting a ranting tangent; .... nevermind!

[DarthTofu]

The cloth bag thing is something I'd not heard of before. I'll be sure to mention that to some friends, as well as to swing by a Goodwill store or something to pick up a couple of large tote bags to shove in the car...

[dodododo]

In Germany they charge for bags at the grocery store. From my 5 years here 90% of people bring used bags with them shopping. Works well, no waste. Recycle the broken ones.

[Eagle]

You can have at least two sorts of bags in our stores. Cloth bags are much too small for my usage so I still prefer plastic bags, which I reuse as often as possible of course.

[Jahled]

In Germany they charge for bags at the grocery store. From my 5 years here 90% of people bring used bags with them shopping. Works well, no waste. Recycle the broken ones.

 

Which is a screaming example of why perhaps it might be a good idea!

 

Can you recycle plastic bags? I'm not an environmental radical btw; I do appreciate the need for bin-liners and other domestic plastic products for us to dispose of our household waste that isn't practical or hygienic to recycle, and prevent vermin from causing a nuisance in our neighbourhoods.

 

I must confess to this not really being an issue I would march on parliament about, but it does piss me off when I see stuff like discarded plastic bags stuck in branches up trees or floating in canals (I walk down one every day to get my lunch). But as Tex points out, people who recklessly dispose of their waste are thoughtless

Edited July 31, 2007 by Jahled

[Eagle]

We´ve got a recycle-system called the Dual System:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dot_%28symbol%29

 

Tomorrow they will come again to collect our yellow bags, which is about one time per month. We do that since over ten years now. We also separate cartonage, wood, metal, colours, electric trash, anything. There´s nearly nothing which won´t be recycled. Allthough you sometimes have to store some kind of trash in your house it´s a very good thing. I´ve heard that lots of the packaging materials here in germany consist now of recycled material.

[dodododo]

I have 5 garbages in my kitchen -I kid you not. Regular, glass, plastic/metal(cans), paper and bio. I have 3 garbage 'bin's' that I must use, paper/bio/regular and have drop boxes on the corner for glass. There are plastic bags for pastic/metal which the pick up, too. I grew up in Canada where we had one garbage and that was taken to an Indian Reserve for dumping! Now, 99% of everything I use gets recycled. I'm not anal about it either, everyone here does it.

[Jahled]

Tomorrow they will come again to collect our yellow bags, which is about one time per month. We do that since over ten years now. We also separate cartonage, wood, metal, colours, electric trash, anything. There´s nearly nothing which won´t be recycled. Although you sometimes have to store some kind of trash in your house it´s a very good thing. I´ve heard that lots of the packaging materials here in germany consist now of recycled material.

 

I have 5 garbage's in my kitchen -I kid you not. Regular, glass, plastic/metal(cans), paper and bio. I have 3 garbage 'bin's' that I must use, paper/bio/regular and have drop boxes on the corner for glass. There are plastic bags for plastic/metal which the pick up, too. I grew up in Canada where we had one garbage and that was taken to an Indian Reserve for dumping! Now, 99% of everything I use gets recycled. I'm not anal about it either, everyone here does it.

 

 

You don't even have to wear an Al-Gore tee-shirt or pin to see this can only be a positive thing. Practical modern society with some concern of the environment we are simply passengers of, until the end of our own rides through this wonder.

[Eagle]

You don't even have to wear an Al-Gore tee-shirt or pin ...

In fact when I´d watched his movie I allways thought: "Hey, tell me something new. We allready do this." It´s just sad that´s just us who are such a kind of recycle-fanatics. There are even people here who say what´s it all worth if it´s just us who do that while others don´t.

[Jahled]

You don't even have to wear an Al-Gore tee-shirt or pin ...

In fact when I´d watched his movie I always thought: "Hey, tell me something new. We already do this." It´s just sad that´s just us who are such a kind of recycle-fanatics. There are even people here who say what´s it all worth if it´s just us who do that while others don´t.

 

According to my observations of the US, I feel compelled to make remarks like this, because of their needles current political polarization on subjects like concern for our environment; either left or right, when a mild mannered duck on a pond couldn't really care less..

[DarthTex]

You don't even have to wear an Al-Gore tee-shirt or pin to see this can only be a positive thing...

I've already put those in the recycle bin

 

Just a point: I've never seen Al's movie and probably never will. The man is a hypocrit. He asks people to reduce and conserve energy, while he uses 10X more than the standard family of four. He wants people to reduce their carbon output, then he flies VIP jets all around this country & the world. I say "Al, lead by example. Put your money where your mouth is"

 

Sorry about the rant. I do appreciate a clean environment. Personal responsibility - more people need to get some, especially when it come to pollution.

[SOCL]

Something related, many major U.S. cities are following the example of San Francisco (in California) in that they have stopped using government dollars to purchase plastic-bottled water, returning that "new" thing: indoor plumbing. Mayor Fenty (our mayor in DC) is pushing for the same sort of legislation, and I see this as a very good thing! Sadly, not many people seem inclined to purchase a single, multi-use water bottle and simply refill it with refreshing water from the tap...even when they are aware that Coca-Cola (who make Dasani) and Pepsi (who make Aquafina) merely bottle tap water and resell it for ungodly amounts. I somehow never thought to do this until I heard about it a few months back (though I certainly recycled every single bottle!), and one might be amazed by the sheer amount of money one saves!

 

Unfortunately, I can't say the same for Perrier; it's not really something available from a tap.

 

I agree with Jahled: it's quite unfortunate that U.S. politics have become polarized on something as truly innocent and reasonable as recycling and environmental protection. But then, I know some people who say that if God wanted us to worry about the environment, he would tell us himself or come down and clean everything...which is just another example why American politics resemble a certain level of lunacy. In general, it's getting better, though, but "getting better" is a long way from "reasonable", much less "good".