Balance

[Scarlet]

I’ve just finished playing through Reloaded a few times – it’s awesome by the way – and have decided to post a quick thread regarding the balance of the game. Other forumers are free to add their own balance thoughts, or expand on/disagree with the points I will raise. I’ll start:

 

Diplomacy

I think the NR has too big an advantage regarding overall diplomacy and gaining control of planets. The NR’s initial diplomat characters (ie characters with a high initial level of diplomacy) far outnumber that of the Remnant and they also have more minor diplomats than the Remnant to recruit later in the game. I think this is quite unbalanced; the NR can kill the game early on by quickly amassing planets and their resources whilst abducting the Remnants few diplomats – this leaves the Remnant screwed.

 

To solve this problem I propose leaving the Remnant’s diplomatic characters alone but altering their troops to give them a quickly produced garrison unit. Currently Reloaded has separate Stormtroopers/Clone Troopers units; if these were to be mixed to become Cloned Stormtroopers (original, I know) then this would open up a troop slot to create a “Local Militiaâ€

[Darth_Rob]

I like your thoughts on diplomacy. The Imperials always did generally rely more on force than diplomacy. Its a good idea to have it so that the Republic would have easy access to diplomacy and whatnot, while the Imperials relied on more direct tactics. A quick, easy to make troop regiment that would be used only as a troop place holder for subjected systems is a good idea. Make it have no attack, a low defense, and a low detection ranking and you're set. Its a good idea.

[DevonSomes]

Thrawns' leadership dropped after awhile? Did you remove C'boath from Coruscant, because I think he has the same effect as the Emperor does in the original, where if he's on Coruscant he adds 50% to all Remnant characters' leadership values. [Could be wrong, still trying to get the hang of all the new characters and their stats.]

[Scarlet]

Thrawns' leadership dropped after awhile? Did you remove C'boath from Coruscant, because I think he has the same effect as the Emperor does in the original, where if he's on Coruscant he adds 50% to all Remnant characters' leadership values. [Could be wrong, still trying to get the hang of all the new characters and their stats.]

 

Heh, that never occurred to me, but you're probably right. IIRC, Thrawn was conducting diplomacy whilst C'Boath was on Wayland (Coruscant) recruiting then he was moved into diplomacy himself - this would of been a few hundred days in, which fits the description of what happened to me.

 

As C'Boath replaces the Emperor, is the "seat of power" ability hardcoded into the game? When I move C'Boath to and from Wayland (Coruscant) I didn't notice any messages saying he had returned as occurs with Palpatine so there is a chance it's not - forgive my ignorance concerning editing Rebellion.

 

Assuming others dislike this feature as I do, what solutions are there? I suppose all Remnant characters could be given +50% leadership, so that C'Boath leaving Wayland doesn't adversely effect them - C'Boath returning to Wayland could be marked as a "Force Channelling" sort of thing, where is it explained that C'Boath's force coordination technique is more effective on Wayland due to the dark side aura etc (forgive me, my memory of the Thrawn era is vague - I think I'm right in thinking C'Boath used the force to help in battles?). The problem with this is that in such a situation the Remnant's characters would have ridiculously strong leadership. Another "fix" could be making C'Boath a minor character (would fit - did he do much recruiting in the books?) and then installing a new major character for the Empire; perhaps Palleon.

 

A major, major "fix" could be entirely swapping the Remnant and NR sides over - ie the Remnant take the slot of the Alliance and the NR takes the slot of the Empire in the original game. This would make plenty of sense, as now Mon Mothma would be the character with the Leadership bonus, which is fine as she's the leader of the NR and would be expected to stay on Coruscant. I think this is far too big a "fix" to undertake for this issue, but hey, it might work!

[Darth_Rob]

Ya, C'Boath is exactly like the Emperor, so that message should have come up when he returned.

[Quasit]

After a little preliminary testing I have a few observations with a multiplayer focus;

 

NR HQ still being moveable. I know this is probably hard coded, but I'm not sure that it makes sense for the NR to be able to shift its powerbase around. Surely Coruscant takes that mantle? Perhaps if it can be tweaked so that when shifting it is still visible, or maybe that it checks the target planet and thinks its neutral thus aborting the move? Regardless, unless it makes sense within the 'Lore' (i am rusty on the books past EpVI), I guess a solution is a pre-game agreement not to move the HQ. With all the initial NR worlds it almost impossible to pin it down otherwise.

 

Star Galleon\Assault Transport comparison isn't really a problem imo. The vast hyperdrive rating difference alone makes the units very distinctly different.

A potential problem I do see just from looking at the stats is VSD compared to Strike Cruiser. It seems that the VSD is by far better value, with only slightly worse Ion Cannons but better bombardment, troop capacity, hyperdrive, fighter capacity and less maintenance, whilst not requiring any tech advance to build. It seems strange to need research into a ship that is as blatantly inferior as the Strike Cruiser, even though they were supposed to have many advantages. "The strike cruiser was designed to be mass produced in a limited amount of time. It was a triumph of Imperial modular technology". Perhaps I am missing something here that occurs late game, if so please point it out.

 

It's deliberate that NR should have more\better diplomats, no? That was always true of Rebels vs Imperials in Vanilla. However, they do seem to have very high ratings. The difference now is Remenant has the advantage in superior ground forces across all the units, both in upkeep and detection values. This is a good thing. THANKGOD there is no Sullustan equivalent. Creating a cheap spammable unit to fill that old role would be, I believe, to the detriment of the game. Remenants still have that edge in subduing uprisings because of the +50% leadership bonus and is an effective tactic to use in striking important NR worlds.

 

NR now have a research advantage over Remenant, with one extra Facility researcher at their disposal. Perhaps this can be balanced by Remenant having an extra Ship researcher, since Thrawn can no longer fill this role?

 

All in all, an incredible job on Reloaded. Vanilla Rebellion was never balanced in the first place and Reloaded goes a long way towards solving that.

 

GJ guys!

[mrpp]

I'm relatively happy with the playability. It seems harder than the original.

I've only really played as Remnant.

 

But then again this is a good thing.

 

The research rate is a little slow. Especially for the ships.

I think that the Remnant need one more researcher, preferrable with more than one ability.

 

Also, there seems to be a lot more characters that cannot be allocated rank i.e. Admiral.

 

This wouldn't be much of a problem, but the leadership value is subsequently low. This means that characters are better off being used as decoys at the special forces go in (the special forces have higher leadership values), because their too thick to be of any real use. This is probably due to too much of a variance in their strengths.

 

Other than this , loving it.

 

Mike

[Krytos]

Thanks for the feedback guys - this is the type of info, in addition to bug finding, is what we wanted to know with the BETA release

Keep it up!

[Quasit]

More observations, questions and some suggestions...

 

After looking at some other aspects in detail it seems that NR have more than the edge in Multiplayer.

One of the biggest advantages is starting with at least 3 construction facilities at the HQ, whilst Remenants have 3 Shipyards. This is by no means equal, Construction Facilities being by far more important at the beginning. I have had starts where Remenants have no construction capability whatsoever. A guaranteed construction facility is imperative for both sides.

Also, some starts as Remenants have had negative maintenance right off the bat or a system in uprising right away, with no troops on it.

 

One of the balancing factors in vanilla was having Darth Vader, who had no peer early game. This made up for the halving of possible recruiters for the Empire and lack of diplomats. As it currently stands NR have 5 Jedi and Remenants 4, with NR starting with at least 2 (Luke and Leia), NR have 4 starting diplomats and Remenants only 3 with 2 of those being needed as recruiters. Luke is quite capable all rounder and Leia is an ott super-diplomat (175-200 diplomacy). She blows Mon Mothma out of the water. I think the % bomus from the force was forgotten when her value was inputed. All known force users need lower stats to compensate for the force bonus that is added afterwards.

 

Current starting minor characters for Remenants are;

 

Paelleon (Diplomat and Officer) - over Jerjerrod

Ruhk (Agent) - over Ozzel

Dorja (Officer) - over Piett

Ysanne Isard (Agent and General) - over Needa

 

Who these characters are replaced over is important as where they were placed at upon starting often had to do with where the disloyal (handicap!) systems are. Being able to put a General there, starting diplomatic channels or an Admiral on an orbiting fleet was often the only hope that the Empire had to stave off a sector wide rebellion. Ruhk is useless, Ysanne is marginal and Dorja cannot help sway a planet.

I would like to see Remenant start with a force user that can be made an officer to make up for Thrawn not being a Jedi. However, the current character list doesn't really have anyone to suggest that stands out to fill this role

 

Whilst I'm on minor characters, why does Carnor Jax have an extremely low leadership value but can be made an Admiral\General and Sate Prestage be made into a Commander? (if Carnor was jostling to become the next Palpatine he would be a decent leader and when did Sate ever become a fighter pilot as his advisor) Also, Khabarakh is a 5% probability known Jedi? These things strike me as odd.

 

Almost all the Capital ships have pretty fast hyperdrive values. That in itself isn't bad, being set at a later time in the history of the galaxy it makes sense to have technology progress, however the sectors are alot closer then they previously were. Transit times have been reduced greatly making most destinations just a hop, skip and jump away (>30 days). I love that the galaxy now accurately represents the lore, please just expand the distance between sectors equally. This will give pause before sending off your fleet 'long distance' as it can't just be back in a few days time, as it presently stands.

 

Poor Remenant do seem to have it a bit rough atm. Ofcourse, these observations are all made with multiplayer balance in mind foremost.

[Jahled]

Read some excellent comments here concerning what was released, so thank you!

 

Ship stats: They were released with the beta from cards returned to our graphics god La_Forge in the middle of some testing. It would have been better if original stats had been deployed. So I apologize. They didn't work at those levels, and are hardly going to without some serious adjustments. One thing I had attempted to do was blur somewhat the difference betweeen the two Star Destroyers. A MKI being outguned by an assualt frigate never made march sense to me, or being over powered by three Corellion Corvettes, but there you go, i'm only human and got it a bit wrong. The MK II having four regiment capacity is simply bonkers. The Allegiance is something that needs to go.

 

Playing the game against the Empire is easier because it's ships take that much longer for it build capital ships, pointless giants like the Allegiance, based upon comic art completely over analyzed by nerds like the force.com simply doesn't make the grade. I was one. But i've seen the light!

[Antonius]

Hello, after a long period i am here again.

 

Some things to tell :

Somebody had right, the research project is too long...if i remember well, i've researched the Eclipse around the day 1000-1100..., but i think the players are eager to have theese beauties more earlier

The second error : the allegiance and the eclipse are researched in the same time...

The MC40 in the beginning have 2 regiment of soldiers, howewer they cannot carry any troops. I think here would better, to introduce an another shipclassin exchange of the MC40.Maybe the Dreadnaught

 

I've disliked the little pictures of the characters, so i've decided after a conversation with La_Forge, that i will remake the little pictures.

Almost all characters are ready, only minor corrections i have to made.

 

 

And by this way i want to ask what i have to do, to can load perfectly the TC, coz i launch the setup, give the location of the Reshack, after that loading the TC and howewer it isnt loaded correctly.

What i had omitted, in this case ?

[DevonSomes]

MC40 starting with two troops has to do with the ship slot it's in. Since it replaced the Medium Transport (I think) it starts with two troops even though it can't hold any. Similarly since the SSD was placed in the Galleon slot, it's possible to start the game off with one (I've had a game with 3 starting) even though it hasn't been researched yet. And just like the galleon in a 'regular' Rebellion game, it starts off with two troops. Some weird coding somewhere in the game I think.

 

Either way, just a small annoyance, cause once you move the troops off the MC40 you can't put any back on.

[DarthTex]

MC40 starting with two troops has to do with the ship slot it's in. Since it replaced the Medium Transport (I think) it starts with two troops even though it can't hold any. Similarly since the SSD was placed in the Galleon slot, it's possible to start the game off with one (I've had a game with 3 starting) even though it hasn't been researched yet. And just like the galleon in a 'regular' Rebellion game, it starts off with two troops. Some weird coding somewhere in the game I think.

 

Either way, just a small annoyance, cause once you move the troops off the MC40 you can't put any back on.

I haven't yet loaded Reloaded (I'm currently in the middle of two games; one of which is a multiplayer), but I wonder about switching ship positions. I'm just asking, did the Team transfer all of the stats from one ship position to the other? I'm just curious about the data that doesn't show up in RebEd (i.e. when I replaced the Corellian gunship with a Golan III, the Golan went after fighters and wouldn't attack capital ships Talk about disappointing). Anyway, that could be fixed either with the SWEditor or a hex-editor on the Capital-Ship-data-file. I'd be afraid that the SSD (replacing Galleons) would "run away" from anything

 

As for the MC40 starting with two troops, it is possible to (hex) edit the start up file and change that to just about anything you want (just about; spec forces, troops or fighters; and any number you want ). The same goes for the SSD's (would you like them fully loaded ).

[DevonSomes]

The same goes for the SSD's (would you like them fully loaded ).

 

Oh yeah, that's what we all want, a fully loaded SSD at the beginning to rampage through NR systems with, Lol. Tempting as that sounds...

[RenegadeMax]

Hey, Tex

 

Have you done any of the hex editing you're talking about? I know there's a lot of data in the Mechanics thread in Editing about which locations store what info on the unit, character whatever, but that thread has kinda died recently. I haven't tried messing with any of that yet - I'm just now testing my recent changes to the game (only found out about the new ship models about six weeks ago). Once I've got a better handle on what I've done so far I'll probably be interested in trying to alter some of the things you're talking about.

 

I know everyone's pretty busy with Reloaded right now, but maybe we should try to get that thread going again? Last I knew things like ship behaviors were still undiscovered...

[RenegadeMax]

Sorry for the double-post, and sorry too Tex! I just went to check the mechanics thread again and of course there you were! I really should check things like that before asking silly questions...

 

So did you ever get anywhere with the Golan behavior thing?

[DarthTex]

I have verified putting a fully loaded SSD in the startup files (and even once started a game with 256 Death Stars, but the negative maintenance was a bitch! )

 

I haven't yet played again with a modified game (namely the Golan III), but I have done some digging around (as you discovered in the Mechanics thread) that might correct the problem. I just haven't had time to test anything out just yet

 

@the Reloaded Team: Is there a comparison list of which ships were replaced with what? Just asking