DarthTofu Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 We're watching it in Geometry (FCAT testing, so no real work) and all I really have to say at the moment is "Woah, WTF?". For those who haven't seen the movie, look away now else it shall be spoiled- So John Nash is crazy, right? Then how did his roommate shove the desk out the window of his room if he was a figment of his imagination? Why didn't he, a mathematical genius, realize that he would be capable of distinguishing what was real and what wasn't when he stopped taking his meds if he just touched a person? We're near the end, we just got to see the scene where his wife shows him what is real and what isn't... I'm just very, very, very confused... 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenivae_Ikeda Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 The desk being pushed out the window doesn't affect any other characters in the movie, therefore it happens in his mind. "I saw the greatest minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix." -Allen Ginnsberg, "Howl" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitth_raw_nuruodo Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 It's been too long since I last watched it, but I'll get a hold of it this weekend at the latest and see what I can clear up for you Tofu. Chaos, Panic, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done. Grand AKmiralCommander-in-Chief of BEAK Forces(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium"To BEAK is Divine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 The desk being pushed out the window doesn't affect any other characters in the movie, therefore it happens in his mind. Nope, he yells, "It's okay, its mine!" to a bunch of people on the ground below his room. 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTex Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 As for the desk, everybody think Nash did it. Only Nash thinks otherwise. If he stopped taking his meds (as you stated), it wouldn't matter if objects/people were fake or not, his mind would make everything seem real, even touching non-existent things would feel real. Finally, after years of hard work I am the Supreme Sith Warlord! Muwhahahaha!! What?? What do you mean "there's only two of us"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenivae_Ikeda Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Hurrah for the power of the mind! "I saw the greatest minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix." -Allen Ginnsberg, "Howl" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I realize that he could experiance touch through his scyzophrenia, but what about resistance? If you try to lean on a non-existant desk you won't stay on it- you'll fall to the ground. 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitth_raw_nuruodo Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 But your brain determines your balance by using your ears. If your brain 'knows' there's a desk there it can make your ears think you're balanced when you're standing at an angle. Does that make any sense to anyone? BTW: Post #400! YYYAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chaos, Panic, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done. Grand AKmiralCommander-in-Chief of BEAK Forces(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium"To BEAK is Divine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 If your brain knows that there's a bed on the ground and you flop into it but there really isn't one, no matter how balanced you think you are, nothing is standing between you and the cold hard ground- you will fall to the ground if you are at the proper angle with nothing to support you. 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenivae_Ikeda Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 You will still have the sensation of falling on it... Which is why it is a mental disorder... Because you think it is there, interact with it, even though it may not be there. "I saw the greatest minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix." -Allen Ginnsberg, "Howl" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Well, because it's a movie and not an accurate description of the real John Nash, you could argue that there are little mistakes in the movie (almost any movie holds such mistakes). Then again, it may also be a cinematographic play made to the schizophrenic brain of Nash, trying to get the viewer into a state where s/he doesn't know what's real and what's not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenivae_Ikeda Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Additionally, what you said about the bed Tofu... The person probably wouldn't actually be falling onto a bed if that were the case. They would probably lose their sense of self (Like when one undergoes a 'religious' experience.) and as such they would only imagine themselves as falling on a bed when in reality they would still be standing, but not be aware of anything but what their mind was telling them. "I saw the greatest minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix." -Allen Ginnsberg, "Howl" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Or else the scyzophrenia would result in their finding some form of outside force which moves the bed/object from them. 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Xan Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That is one of my favorite movies. Not for its accuracy, mind you. But for the feelings portrayed and the questions it raises. How do you know that your best friend really exists? Because you feel them? Your brain collects all your sensory input, so if something is wrong with your brain, there's no way to really know. Its a concept that goes straight into The Matrix and other similar movies/books. I mean, can you imagine what it would be like, if you couldn't tell the difference between what was real and what wasn't? What can you think of that could possibly be worse then that? I've got a few ideas, but not many. While the movie doesn't portray everything correctly, I think it does give you a good idea of what it would be like from Nash's perspective. Star Wars: Rebellion, A Field Manual"O be wise, what can I say more?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitth_raw_nuruodo Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I'm quite certain that some of MY best friends AREN'T real, at least not to the rest of the world. At least that's what my psychiatrist told me. She's a doc though so she can't be trusted. That's what Loopy tells me anyway. Ego always said she wanted me and I should jump her. Somehow the other 10 more vocal friends that live in my head talked me out of that course of action... Chaos, Panic, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done. Grand AKmiralCommander-in-Chief of BEAK Forces(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium"To BEAK is Divine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That is one of my favorite movies. Not for its accuracy, mind you. But for the feelings portrayed and the questions it raises. How do you know that your best friend really exists? Because you feel them? Your brain collects all your sensory input, so if something is wrong with your brain, there's no way to really know. Its a concept that goes straight into The Matrix and other similar movies/books. Quite a good point, Xan... In fact you might well argue that all humans have this problem... We can only rely on what we see and this makes for a few complications. First of all, what we really see, i.e., the visual incentives that do get processed by the visual center in our brain, are estimated by some scientists to be only 40% of what we actually see. The remaining 60% of the image that our brains compute is built from what scientists call visual memory. I saw a documentary about a guy who couldn't really 'see' anymore due to a motor accident. In watching a football game, for instance, he could see a green square, with people running after and kicking against a white object. However, due to brain damage, his brain didn't translate this into things such as a football field and a football... Yet, he did coach his son's football team, now how is this possible? The answer is visual memory: because he had the motor accident at 33 of age, he already had concepts such as a football field and a football stored in his visual memory. Although he could not recognize the things he saw, he actually was able to deduce from visual memory that they were a football field and a football... The second problem can be experienced when you look at an 'uneven room': in this experiment, scientists construct a room that has - say - a left side is one meter high and a right side two meters. All furniture has been crafted such that they seem in perspective to their place in the room (i.e., a chair on the left hand side of the room is only 20 cm. in height, whereas a chair on the right side will measure 40cm. They then put a camera on it and show you the room on television: what we see is a perfectly normal room which is of equal height on all sides. Since the camera can't change what it records, it must be our brain that puts the room 'straight'... actually making for a faulty vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitth_raw_nuruodo Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The second problem can be experienced when you look at an 'uneven room': in this experiment, scientists construct a room that has - say - a left side is one meter high and a right side two meters. All furniture has been crafted such that they seem in perspective to their place in the room (i.e., a chair on the left hand side of the room is only 20 cm. in height, whereas a chair on the right side will measure 40cm. They then put a camera on it and show you the room on television: what we see is a perfectly normal room which is of equal height on all sides. Since the camera can't change what it records, it must be our brain that puts the room 'straight'... actually making for a faulty vision.That's awesome Scath! Do you have a link to where someone could get the whole story and/or pictures/video? Chaos, Panic, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done. Grand AKmiralCommander-in-Chief of BEAK Forces(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium"To BEAK is Divine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) Well you could try here... The last example I talked about is called the Ames room... edit: diagram of an Ames roomedit 2: picture of an Ames roomedit 3: Kin 356 Encyclopedia lists most of these concepts. Edited March 6, 2006 by Scathane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitth_raw_nuruodo Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Awesome, thanks. Chaos, Panic, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done. Grand AKmiralCommander-in-Chief of BEAK Forces(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium"To BEAK is Divine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Pretty cool sounding experiment... I must look into that when I finish up, here... 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Xan Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Its a classic study of psychology and the human brain. This is some of the stuff I enjoyed from my psychology class (we talked about the Ames room). I didn't much enjoy the study of psychologists... or most of their methods (I personally don't agree with them or their findings). But lots of things were pretty cool, such as the Ames room, studying dreams, and so forth. I'd recommend a psyc class to anybody who gets into this sort of stuff. Just watch out for when they start talking about Freud and his absurd outlook on children and their parents. Star Wars: Rebellion, A Field Manual"O be wise, what can I say more?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad78 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Very interessting stuff Scath. THX. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/Mad78/Palpycard.gifhttp://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/Mad78/Spamkinguserbarcopy.jpgCLICK HERE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!Click here is you like Trance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTofu Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Should we be on the lookout for Shrodinger's cats as well? I thought I killed it, but I'm not certain... 12/14/07Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Should we be on the lookout for Shrodinger's cats as well? I thought I killed it, but I'm not certain... Nice pun, using lookout but although Schrödinger's cat is concerned with observation, it really doesn't have anything to do with perception, Tofu... ...U B33N B34KD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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