Corporate social responsibility

[Guest Scathane]

I recently read that companies like Google and Yahoo cooperate with the Chinese government even if it infringes on human rights. What do you think about this?

 

I mean, I can quite easily classify the infringement as being wrong but how about G/Y? Of course you could argue that they agree to China's terms just because it represents an economic power and a market segment they cannot ignore. And, for one, that's true but does it give a company an excuse to ignore human rights issues?

 

You could also argue that, even though the infringements on human rights and freedom of speech in China that is something that must be condemned, we're certainly aren't going to attribute to change if we cut people off from search sengines like G/Y. So, in this respect, the better option for G/Y form a human rights POV is to give access to the Chinese people albeit it to a government monitored databse.

 

My choice, ultimately, would be the latter. What are your views?

[Evaders99]

People will find a way around it, they always do. Give them the medium, and they will find the means to use it. Frankly I don't see how much longer the communist government can keep this up, China will have to stop their human rights abuses if they really want to seen as world leader.

[Jahled]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e253/Jahled/google.jpg

 

Seems appropriate....

[Mad78]

Where did you find that J?

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I would have to agree with Scath on this one, though to be honest I do't think Google or Yahoo were being quite so pious when they expanded into China. More likely they were willing to bend for the financial gains they would recieve. However, I think it's not the place of another country to bring about political change within a country. If the people want it they will find a way to do it.

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure there are some things that the American Government doesn't want you to see that Google would happily remove from their search results...

[Defender_16]

Enough people still support the party in China that it keeps the others silent.

 

All it takes is one person to keep a decent sized group under surveillance.

 

I gotta say though: Lack of street crime. Seriously I felt less safe walking through most areas of Ottawa than in nearly any place in China. ( Just watch your wallet is all. No chance of getting mugged, just pickpocketed. )

 

I always thought Yahoo was Evil anyways.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Defender_16

[DarthTex]

It also goes beyond the mere censoring of information, apparently they're cooperating with user investigations

 

Yahoo helped Chinese to prosecute journalist

 

(*** whispering ***) Beware of the Yahoo police!

[DarthTofu]

YOu've been to China, D16? When and why?

[Defender_16]

Went there for a few weeks early last year. My Father worked there for a little over a year helping to organise a production line and weed out any people they shouldn't have hired in the first place. Got to visit Bejing, Shanghai, and Xian (Shee-an).

 

The digital pictures we took got split up so I only have the ones of Shanghai and the Maglev train.

[Jahled]

Here's something to try:

 

Do a google search for Tiananmen Square, you should get roughly 1,750,000 results.

 

Now do it on http://www.google.cn and you get 13,600. Yay for good ol'google, especially after they made such a song and dance about being principled not so long ago.

 

My last note: My mate lives in Beijing and owns a business. Last year he forked out over $20,000 in bribes, gifts, and backhanders, because that's how things are done over there. To get there flat they had to give a party official a top of the range TV by way of a gift...

Edited February 14, 2006 by Jahled

[DarthTofu]

...Why is your friend telling you this? I mean, no offense meant to him or you or anything, but couldn't you blackmail him or something with this info that you're posting on a web site viewable to the public?

[Jahled]

...Why is your friend telling you this? I mean, no offense meant to him or you or anything, but couldn't you blackmail him or something with this info that you're posting on a web site viewable to the public?

 

His mum and mine met in the meternity ward, and we've been life long friends. I haven't mentioned his name, and will not. And googling 'Jahled' will get you nowhere. His business undertakings and my interest in Star Wars are sort of completely seperate...

Edited February 14, 2006 by Jahled

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

The whole google thing is Laizzes-faire at it's finest...

[Evaders99]

Do a google search for Tiananmen Square, you should get roughly 1,750,000 results.

 

Now do it on http://www.google.cn and you get 13,600. Yay for good ol'google, especially after they made such a song and dance about being principled not so long ago.

 

Well it could be there are actually less articles in Chinese for stuff on Tiananmen... esp since the Chinese government would shut down any server inside their own country.

I thought that the filters that Google does applies within China's network only. So they couldn't use google.com or any of the other services to bypass it. It would show no results at all if you were in China

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Here's something to try:

 

Do a google search for Tiananmen Square, you should get roughly 1,750,000 results.

 

Now do it on http://www.google.cn and you get 13,600. Yay for good ol'google, especially after they made such a song and dance about being principled not so long ago.

 

\

 

 

Take a look at what the second result it though Jahled. Granted, I found a few that were clearly government supported and slanting the tail of the massacre to their advantage.

 

You also have to consider that Tiananment Square is a tourist attraction in China (well, what tourists there are), so there will be results leaning in that direction.

[Mad78]

Well i guess you can't really blame Google. China is such a market that they can't really avoid developping there. Hopefully the Communist regime will finish by falling and all this rubbish shall end.

[Jahled]

Well it could be there are actually less articles in Chinese for stuff on Tiananmen... esp since the Chinese government would shut down any server inside their own country.

I thought that the filters that Google does applies within China's network only. So they couldn't use google.com or any of the other services to bypass it. It would show no results at all if you were in China

 

Oops! I hadn't thought of that! I assumed the google.cn server thingy would be within the great Chinese firewall...

 

Take a look at what the second result it though Jahled. Granted, I found a few that were clearly government supported and slanting the tail of the massacre to their advantage.

 

You also have to consider that Tiananment Square is a tourist attraction in China (well, what tourists there are), so there will be results leaning in that direction

 

You must admit dude that the fundermental differences in the nature of the search results are black and white! The free world gets the site of a massacre, whilst the Chinese, protected by their firewall, get a lovely square... sort of thing.

 

...Why is your friend telling you this?

 

I forgot to also point out that he's my oldest mate and it's the sort of thing that is mentioned when you ask someone how are things going over the course of several hours when you haven't met someone for roughly a year. That is simply how things are done in the business world over there!

 

Well i guess you can't really blame Google. China is such a market that they can't really avoid developping there. Hopefully the Communist regime will finish by falling and all this rubbish shall end.

 

I seem to remember a sentiment that Hong Kong would change China when handed back to the mainland and not the other way round. It looks as if Communism is evolving into a free-market economy; let's hope the respect for human rights can catch up!

[Defender_16]

You also have to consider that Tiananment Square is a tourist attraction in China (well, what tourists there are)

 

There were (I would estimate) aproximately 250k Chinese tourists from other parts of the country visiting Tienamen Squate and the Forbidden City the day I went there.

 

The school organised bus tours... *Shudders*

 

My sis:

Bro, I'm drowning in school kids.

 

The part of the Great Wall we were supposed to go see was on the other side of a 4 hour tourist related traffic jam. So everyone on the bus voted to go see another part of the wall.

[DarthTofu]

The part of the Great Wall we were supposed to go see was on the other side of a 4 hour tourist related traffic jam. So everyone on the bus voted to go see another part of the wall.

 

Almost as good as the kamikaze girl scouts. We were in Boston for a week and they apparently had paid for some tour or another. We followed them, seeing as we thought the tour was interesting, and one of the girl scout mothers took a perverse pleasure in shouting at us that the girls scouts had paid for the tour and not to get in front of them even though said scouts seemed very bored with the proceedings and chose to sit down on tombstones whenever we stopped...

 

Back on topic: WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO CONTRADICT THE CHINESE! They make our underwear... Without underwear we're all doomed! DOOMED I SAY!

[Jahled]

Back on topic: WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO CONTRADICT THE CHINESE! They make our underwear... Without underwear we're all doomed! DOOMED I SAY!

 

Sadly I think you're right. Their economic clout is simply to huge to take an implacable moral stance and not trade with them. China has gone through dramatic changes than even the China of ten years ago, perhaps democracy will evolve.

[Defender_16]

I'm beginning to more easily forsee the Corporate War of 'Cyberpunk 2020.'

[DarthTofu]

I'm beginning to more easily forsee the Corporate War of 'Cyberpunk 2020.'

 

*Puts on Palpatine voice* it is as I have forseen... This pitiful rebellion in China shall be crushed! *End Palpatine voice*... I wonder if it has anything to do with their missing flight control technology...

[Guest Scathane]

Yup, they make most of our shoes as well... Anyway, don't you guys feel that we should ate least try to reason with China when it comes to freedom of speech?

[Mad78]

Anyway, don't you guys feel that we should ate least try to reason with China when it comes to freedom of speech?

I don't really understand what you mean. Could you develop that point a bit?

[Guest Scathane]

There's not much to it, really... My question was wether or not China should be questioned more openly about their oppression of people? This could be done in, say, the United Nations' General Assembly.