Fighter Testing - public forum

[Lord_La_forge]

This forums is for our fresh testers, who want to share experience with each other.

First task is to test our new fighter cards. Tester are kindly asked, not to reveal any of the new graphics or encyclopedia entries. Otherwise you can freely talk about them, and mention any of their stats, names.

 

If we got all the results we need, we will proceed to ship testing...

[E-vader]

Hey hows it going fellow fighter testers--

Just a word to see how many copatriots I have in our endeavors, but also to exchange contact info so we can better coordinate the testing process.

contact me at:

trailblder@yahoo.com or pm me either way.

I look forward to working with you so we can get this game up and running!!!

[Master_Xan]

I too am testing this first group of fighters. Just in need of a little clarification, how are we testing the balance of just two fighters? Testing against each other, against other fighters, or against all ships? And more importantly, how are we testing these against other ships when we lack their data (i.e. we are balancing them against ships that won't exist in the final version...)

 

After I know exactly what I'm comparing the new fighters to, I'll get to work. As for communication, PM me for email, YIM, or MSN info.

[Lord_La_forge]

Basicly, these things are up to you testers. Would be nice to have some improvements on the original cards too.

E-wings are not like Y-wing as you know. And there is a big difference between Tie Scimitars and Tie Bombers. So their stats should be modified to make balance with all the others.

The original Rebellion's balance was made with those previous ships, so it could happen, that all the other old fighters (x-wing, TieInterceptors..) have to be edited a bit too.

After some new stats were added, the AI should be tested. Like what type of fighters it prefers after the chages, and how does it use them.

 

You can use the old ships while testing. I strongly suggest, you use the following ones with original stats:

 

Victory SD I

Imperial I Star Destroyer (against both sides)

Nebulon-B-Frigate (against both sides)

Corellian Corvette (against both sides)

Corellian Gunship

Lancer Frigate

Assault Frigate

Alliance/Imperial Escort Carrier

Carrack cruiser (against both sides)

 

You can test the fighters with other ships too, but these ships, or atleast the stats of them will be used in some way in Reloaded.

[Master_Xan]

Righty-o, sounds good. Now that I'm off work, I'll begin testing... expect my initial results later tonight.

[E-vader]

Hey Xan these are communications between Lord LaForge and myself, that should clarify if not answer your questions:

 

LLF: <"The fighters need to be balanced for the TC. That doesn't mean, there should be the same values for each though">

 

Me : As far as I understand it, we are referring for example, to the X-Wings ability to dominate an Imp star loaded with 6 tie fighters, being able to destroy all the ties, and hit the Imp severly if they remain in-system?

You are looking for a more reasonable assignation of fighter abilities vs. other fighters, initially, then fighter vs. capital ships, etc.?

Then, upon playing, being able to judge what is a reasonable base attribute for various fighters vs. what other players might do to them once in possession of Reloaded?

 

LLF: You are absolutely on the right track my friend Smile Balance can mean that 1 X-wing squadron can easy take out one Tie Fighter squadron, but Tie's are just easier to produce due it's lower price. This is already a feautre of the original game and we might want to keep it with our new fighters in Reloaded. You'll see, we have x new fighters in the TC, replacing the Y-wing and the Tie Bomber. IT's the * and the * . These new cards have to harmonize with all the others.

Basicly testing is about adding these x new fighter classes without balancing problems, and perhaps making some changes on all the other cards for better gaming experience.

 

Hope this helps Xan

To the rest of you will begin testing tomorrow morning when I get home from work. Till then looking forward to hearing from the rest of you regarding prelim results!

[Master_Xan]

The preliminary results are in, and here's the outcome:

 

I like the new graphics, Ency entries, and how the stats look... no problems loading the cards.

 

Minor spelling error in Tie Scimitars Ency entry (gra* word should be gre*)

 

All the graphics are great for Ency, but didn't size down correctly for normal windows and in the construction windows. (edges are rough and pixelated rather then smooth)

 

When the game begins, the computer gives you several Ewings (because the computer would normally give you Ywings, which have been replaced). To fix this, I plan on simply reordering the cards to get Awings and Ewings switched around. If this works, as I assume it will, I'll mention that in the next report.

 

The Empire starts out capable of constructing TIE Scimitar squadrons. I assume the Scimitar is supposed to be researched?

 

More to come later, as I begin the second faze of testing (actual combat!)

[Master_Xan]

Here's the latest update from me (and the final one for tonight). Switching the Awing/Ewing cards prevented the computer from handing me several Ewings at game start, but I got this error when I did switch the cards:

String too long: Truncated!

 

Whatever that means. As far as I can tell, it doesn't impact the game at all.

 

To clarify with the graphic issue, the TIE and TIE Scimitar look ok, but the others would benefit from some work on the scaled down versions.

 

As it takes some research to get to the Ewing, I still have yet to get them into battle. Unfortunately, the computer (who is Imperials for this matchup) doesn't build the Scimitars at all (remember I mentioned they had the option without any research?). Lots and lots of TIE Intercepters, but not a single Scimitar squadron yet. Tomorrow I'll test playing the Empire and see how they are, maybe discover the AI's fear in using them...

 

On a completely unrelated note, I found out that a Corellian Corvette with Han as the Admiral can fight off a Carrack Light Cruiser one v. one...

[E-vader]

Yo everyone--

Just a confirm on some of the stuff aforementioned, planetary fighter window and construction window is extremely grainy; not a graphics person so I will not say much to that issue.

Now as far as the stats are concerned, I believe the E-wing is a bit too strong off the bat, and its detection rating way to low, in comparison, say to the Defender. I am going to dink with the settings some more until I can give you details, suffice to say that I think detection ratings need to be a big issue with these new fighters. In the practical sense, which is truly difficult, you would probably want the majority of the fighters this release to be actually lower. Is it possible perhaps, to split detection ratings, for example, if on planet, have a higher detection rating than when in a fleet, or vice versa? Something to discuss there for both sides.

Also if you check travel times, it seems even though sublight speeds differ, they (x-wings vs. e-wings) arrive at exactly the same time (that is with the on e second difference it took me to split them in two groups. This is with the default settings on the cards.

In response to the string truncated, I initially got them when I used a mix of TC and old rebellion models, however, when I replaced all of them I didn't receive the string truncated message, but, like the previous post, it doesn't seem to effect game performance.

Next, didn't seem like anyone, not even the higher up guys had mentioned this, but what about Longprobe Y-wings? Is there a viable replacement for these in Reloaded or will this simply be an archaic scouting device? Not to mention the same thing for the IMP probe droid (since it has hyp space capability).

As far as the ENCY entries, I found one bit in the E-wing I thought was unnecessary, will pm LordLaForge with that so as not to give it away.

Am almost to a decent battle, so will go play a while and test in battle stuff.

Late.

[E-vader]

I forgot to add this bit....Xan....AI is building Scimitars like crazy....I managed to get an espionage mission in and NO interceptors whatsoever....I am playing small galaxy on expert.

[Lord_La_forge]

Just two quickies:

The fighters will be remade in small size (however, it's really hard to get them right)

The string to long... message occurs, because Reloaded will have longer enc. entries. It won't affect the cards in any way. It's just cuts down some lines.

[E-vader]

In the encyclopedia button to ships to Tie section it only says Tie Scimit

 

Was this intentional or game cutting off text.

 

Correllian corvette vs. 6 scimitars LMAO. Over in less than 20 seconds. I am sure the crew could only look on in horror as shields and bulkheads collapsed. !!!!

[Master_Xan]

Strange, I too was playing a small galaxy on expert. Perhaps there is something different with the availability... i.e. when I play Empire, I can build Scimitars right off the get-go. But come to think of it, I never actually built one, just saw the picture in the construction window. I'll have to play a longer game to make sure they really do have them available before saying they aren't building them, but as of 250 days I haven't seen one at all, and I can espionage any system at this point. That and in that game, I kind of whooped them... I control all but 5 systems of the core worlds, and have since around day 150. The extra cost may be prohibitive for the AI in those circumstances.

 

I'm also going to set up a more time effective test (LAN with my family's computer). I'll be able to do some serious stat testing that way, but I'll still have to do AI testing the normal way. All for when I get off work today...

Edited January 15, 2006 by Master_Xan

[Master_Xan]

Update:

Conducted first battle tests with Scimitar. Wow, talk about a slow fighter. Also, I'm having problems getting the AI to remain in a battle with me, I'm not 100% sure it's from the single Scimitar squad I have, will do more testing. At this point, they just run away, so I haven't even gotten to use the thing yet.

 

In my other game, never got the Empire to build Scimitar squads, but I need another game to actually prove that to be a possibility considering how badly I beat them up early on in the last one. Maybe I just missed it, but I never saw a message saying that Ewings had been researched. I just randomly found it in my construction menu.

 

Also, the Empire CAN build Scimitars right out of the gates. (Or, um, right out of the yards. Yeah.) I'll have to test to see if the AI will build them immediatly or not, but at least I confirmed that the human can.

 

Potential problem here, but since I haven't had any tests to confirm it its nothing tangable yet: the Scimitar squads are very fast to build compared to Alliance fighters, almost half the time. Considering they have shields, this could make them too easy to build and keep alive. Then again, they are soooo slow, maybe the shields won't keep them alive as much as they do Defenders, which would effectively balance the faster build time. Again, since I can't get the computer to stay in battle long enough to see how they fair, I don't know for sure. I'm thinking of making my own starting conditions to run some of these AI battle tests (much faster than playing through a game until Ewings are reasearched), more on that Monday.

 

Just fyi, I'm going to be balancing these tests with my work schedule, my already pitiful social life, and my beta testing of another game (Avernum 4, very awesome). This just means that when I start the beta of A4 next week, I'll have to split time 50/50, so I won't get as much testing done here.

 

Anywho, more testing from me on Monday, when I set the LAN up and do some battle tests.

[Lord_La_forge]

In the encyclopedia button to ships to Tie section it only says Tie Scimit

 

Was this intentional or game cutting off text.

 

Correllian corvette vs. 6 scimitars LMAO. Over in less than 20 seconds. I am sure the crew could only look on in horror as shields and bulkheads collapsed. !!!!

 

As I posted it above, the text cutting should be ignored. Rebellion uses some dll files, those need to be edited to get the correct lenghts. RebEd cuts down some lines while loading, but don't worry about it.

[Master_Xan]

The Avernum 4 testing has officially begun. This means that I wasn't able to do the tests on RR I was planning on today. Fear not, as A4 will not take all my time (particularly when I get frustrated with it and need to do something else before pounding my fists on the computer). Wednesday is when I will give you all a MASSIVE amount of data to work with, as I have the day off of work and did manage to set up a LAN with which to effectively do balance testing today. Just ran out of time to actually test with.

 

EDIT: Well, that ought to teach me to put a date on these sorts of things. Testing is taking much longer then expected, but its still coming along. That 'massive amount of data' should be prepared later next week, but I'll post half of it when I get half of it ready to post... if that made much sense. For now, here's some generalized AI behavior.

 

I haven't come up against any Ewings yet. This makes no sense, because it should be the most powerful Republic fighter available. Doing more tests on that tonight. Also, the Empire doesn't use scimitars very often, but when they do, they are used similarly to other fighters. I haven't detected any distinction between them and, say, intercepters (unlike the original bombers, which were often sent after capital ships instead of fighters). I'm going to deny them access to other fighters and see what happens when I face lots of them.

 

Scimitars seem to be very powerful against capital ships, but very weak against other fighters (duh). My earlier concerns about shields making them live longer then they should for their cost? Definately nothing to worry about. A few Awings will chew through dozens of scimitars and barely notice.

[Lord_La_forge]

Thanks for taking the time to test our fighters. Sadly E-vader seems to be offline for some time now. I hope he will find his way back soon and provide support.

There are already interesting results in this topic and I just hope testing will continue until the best solution for all these problems will be found.

 

You see, those are really some problems you've mentioned here. I just don't have a clue why the AI wont build them. The scimitars are special fighters however. The AI should use those crafts propely. But did the AI use the bombers for their purpose in the original game? Or do you think that it was always randomly selected.

[Master_Xan]

Originally, I think bombers were usually sent after fighters unless/until they had superior numbers (for fighters). Then they would peel off and take down ships, before the regular fighters did. But there seemed to be several factors to it, such as their capital ship power... if they outgunned you, the bombers sometimes went straight for your fleet and ignored your fighters, no matter how many there were. If you completely outclassed them, then they would sometimes ignore fighters and go for capital ships. And sometimes they just did random stuff.

 

Basically, it was hard to determine what bombers would do. Those and Ywings were the ONLY ships that really did different things, thus making the testing difficult indeed. But enough speculation, time to work more on the serious lack of Ewings...

[Master_Xan]

Sorry for the dry spell, and I suppose I could give some excuses (Valentine's Day, a nice vacation, heavier work schedule and more work on A4 testing) but to be honest, I haven't done lots of testing because I just haven't gotten around to it.

 

Just thought I'd post a note here to let you know I'm not going anywhere, and *hopefully* will do some testing this week.

[Lord_La_forge]

Don't worry about this, Real Life business is more important then Reloaded Especially on Valentines day....

 

Besides, you're the only tester we have right now

Thanks for your work again!