Favorite Villian in the Expanded Universe

[wormie]

I voted for the Vong, don't ask me why, but I think they are cool, only the most badass villian could take on the Jedi in combat, and actually have an advantage.

[SOCL]

I voted for the Vong, don't ask me why, but I think they are cool, only the most badass villian could take on the Jedi in combat, and actually have an advantage.

I don't know . . . Daala was REALLY badass to take on the Jedi without a true advantage and still scare the hell out of everyone. Too bad her tactics were too outdated. In my opinion, she just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Poor Daala!

 

Lucky for her, she gets A LOT of mercy in my story. If you havent' caught on, during the opening scene in Heir to the Empire, Thrawn pulled A LOT of info from the libraries on Obroa-skai, but not everything he wanted. But the intitial run was only needed for the bits of information he needed for his preliminary plans, the rest would be pulled later and would reveal a secret facility in the Maw and another at Byss. Not only this, but the story also explains some gaps left in the EU: the fate of the Ssi-Ruuvi. My story will also include to VERY fateful encounters: that of Imperial forces with alien invaders from outside the galaxy (I believe you guys know what I'm talking about) and, of course, a VERY faterful encounter with a type of primitive human species living in the outskirts of the Unknown Regions. . . .

All thanks to the genius that is Thrawn.

Edited April 16, 2003 by SOCL

[wormie]

Soory let me rephrase that, It's badass to take on a Jedi in hand to hand combat and still have an advantage.

[SOCL]

Soory let me rephrase that, It's badass to take on a Jedi in hand to hand combat and still have an advantage.

Quite true. Hey, wormie, reread my above post!

[Trejiuvanat]

Valid point wormie.

SOCL, Daala wasn't that bright, she may have been a good cobat tactician, but she lacked a vision for the overall strategy, unlike Thrawn she did not see the whole galactic panorama and only focused on the military. Returning to the analogy of Chess, Thrawn is like the player, he has to watch all moves, all possibilites, Daala may be the Queen, powerful but not essential, nor having the whole panorama.

[SOCL]

Valid point wormie.

SOCL, Daala wasn't that bright, she may have been a good cobat tactician, but she lacked a vision for the overall strategy, unlike Thrawn she did not see the whole galactic panorama and only focused on the military. Returning to the analogy of Chess, Thrawn is like the player, he has to watch all moves, all possibilites, Daala may be the Queen, powerful but not essential, nor having the whole panorama.

Okay . . . Trej, if you haven't noticed, you're preaching to the choir. I do not disagree with your point and believe that Daala needed some more teaching in the points of overall tactics and strategy. I never said that she was anywhere as good as Thrawn nor meant to suggest such an idea. Daala is the ideal defense tactician (which was probably her specialty considering her duty assignment for most of her career). Along with that, she (IMO) should be used in normal engagements and not involved in the overall strategy or the "big picture", for that is the job of geniuses like Thrawn.

 

The chess analogy was how Zahn described his writing of the Thrawn trilogy, not something I made up. I simply used it to give some flavor to my posts when I spoke of my stories. I never brought any other characters into the chess analogy nor meant to suggest such; I merely used it in the context used by Mr. Zahn.

[Trejiuvanat]

Yes I knew about Zahn and the chess analogy but I used it and gave it new parameters, to fit it into my explanation .

Daala as a defense tactician... hmm... If Thrawn hadn't been killed at Biblringi and he finds Daala, as you suggest she would have been ideal to defend some important world while Thrawn lead the Imperial Forces to battle, from her personalty I wouldn't have put her near Wayland, i'd have put her in an important world. Protecting Bastion, or Bilbringi, and if Thrawn retakes Coruscant, then she might be in charge of the garrison.

Since we are making an alternative of this whole thing. What would have Thrawn done with Palpy? Killed him? Deal with him? Serve him?

Palpy valued Thrawn as a servant, but could the clone see Thrawn as an opponent? I never liked clone Palpy, so i'd rather have Thrawn kill him, after all Thrawn had started his campaign, and I doubt he would have surrendered all to Palpatine, Thrawn was unifying the galaxy to figh tthe hundred possibel threats from the Unknown Regions, woudl Palpy understand that?

[SOCL]

Since we are making an alternative of this whole thing. What would have Thrawn done with Palpy? Killed him? Deal with him? Serve him? Palpy valued Thrawn as a servant, but could the clone see Thrawn as an opponent? I never liked clone Palpy, so i'd rather have Thrawn kill him, after all Thrawn had started his campaign, and I doubt he would have surrendered all to Palpatine, Thrawn was unifying the galaxy to figh tthe hundred possibel threats from the Unknown Regions, woudl Palpy understand that?

That's one of the important points addressed in the story: Palpatine valued Thrawn, but does/did Thrawn value Palpatine? I won't give away what I think about that matter nor what Thrawn does in the my story concerning that matter, so you'll just have to wait until I release the story.

[wormie]

I think that Palpatine would have let Thrawn do what he wanted as long as he didn't try to replace him as Emperor, he would have let him do his thing. Palpatine was not one to waste a valuable tool. He let Xizor live as long as he was valuable, so it would seem that the same goes for Thrawn.

[SOCL]

I think that Palpatine would have let Thrawn do what he wanted as long as he didn't try to replace him as Emperor, he would have let him do his thing. Palpatine was not one to waste a valuable tool. He let Xizor live as long as he was valuable, so it would seem that the same goes for Thrawn.

But in a story such as mine, where Thrawn is the one who stumbles across Palpatine's clones and his warmachine at Byss, the tables have turned and it is up to Thrawn whether Palpatine's clones are in fact a valuable tool. Again, I won't give away what Thrawn does in my story, but anyway you look at it, with Thrawn at the head of all operations, one can see it working out for the Thrawn's planing of the Empire's ultimate victory.

[Trejiuvanat]

Is Thrawn fighting to restore Palpatine's Empire or a his own Empire? HE certainly valued the order that Palpy imposed, but the nonhuman and woman seclusion? Palpy's pathethic Imperial Court?

No, Thrawn's agenda did not seem like that, he was focused on destroying the Rebs, but he never spoke of restoring Palpy's Empire. In VOTF we see him focusing on something that is out there in the Unknown Regions. Soemthign we'll see in Survivor's Quest... Damn wait till January 2004

[SOCL]

To me it seemed as if Thrawn was aiming to destroy the Rebellion/Republic and reestablish the Empire as the dominant force/government in the galaxy. After that had been accomplished, I'm quite sure he would have been ruler of the Empire for some time as order would come to be established, but I seriously doubt he would have declared himself Emperor. Instead I think he would have eventually stepped down as ruler of the Empire and handed it over to a civilian (a Grand Moff or some other high ranking politician). I doubt he ever planned to Emperor himself. I also seriously doubt he planned to reenstate the New Order as Palpatine saw it, but instead ammend much of it to include non-humans and women.

[Trejiuvanat]

Thrawn is a warrior, i doubt that he had any long-run political agenda, I assume that he wanted to restore order, taking all the possible resources and battling whatever threats there could be..

[SOCL]

Thrawn is a warrior, i doubt that he had any long-run political agenda, I assume that he wanted to restore order, taking all the possible resources and battling whatever threats there could be..

I beg to differ. I believe Thrawn was both a genius tactician and genius politician. Evidence of the former is evident throughout the books, but the latter can only be seen in a few scenes. For example, he is clearly a politician when he negotiated with other governments to go under Imperial control, yet keep their own governments intact. That is being a politician. He didn't rule the Empire with a hammer of fear like the Emperor did (that was one of the biggest causes of loss of support for Palpatine), but instead ruled through a different manner that allowed governments other than the Empire to exist. He knew how to handle system and sector governments to the point they were practically begging to join the Empire (as read and interpreted in Dark Force Rising). You also see Thrawn's master politician at work through Flim, who was acting as Thrawn in the Hand of Thrawn duology. In that he negotiated, using Thrawn's influence, charisma, and genius (which he studied thoroughly), to bring entire planetary systems to the side of the Empire without a shot fired. If all of that is not evidence of Thrawn being a politician, then I don't know what is.

[Trejiuvanat]

You see it more clearly in VOTF when Mara suggests that Thrawn most likely had a whole netweork of alliances in the Unknwon Regions. But hose alliances and politic moves were meant to support his whole military.

Look at the Chiss philosphy he is part of, there can't be any true celebration until the end, even if the fight is never-ending. Thrawn's fight was never ending, everythign he did was to continue that fight, against who? That we don't know (yet).

I imagine the Chiss to be a militaristic society, that ha, though some moral issue built into warfare. Their reactive to a preempitve strike, etc...

Thrawn is the product of this society, and I gues sthis also helps to support Thrawn's dislike of superweapon, they are not moral by Chiss standards. He is a warrior, politics and information and armies, are just tools, valuable tools.

[Trejiuvanat]

You see it more clearly in VOTF when Mara suggests that Thrawn most likely had a whole netweork of alliances in the Unknwon Regions. But hose alliances and politic moves were meant to support his whole military.

Look at the Chiss philosphy he is part of, there can't be any true celebration until the end, even if the fight is never-ending. Thrawn's fight was never ending, everythign he did was to continue that fight, against who? That we don't know (yet).

I imagine the Chiss to be a militaristic society, that ha, though some moral issue built into warfare. Their reactive to a preempitve strike, etc...

Thrawn is the product of this society, and I gues sthis also helps to support Thrawn's dislike of superweapon, they are not moral by Chiss standards. He is a warrior, politics and information and armies, are just tools, valuable tools.

[SOCL]

Very good points, Trej. Sadly, though, I don't see the Chiss as a society that was came to be the way they are in a military sense, instead I think them more as a highly sophisticated society that has been forced into a militarisitc lifestyle and wishes to return to the "old ways". More like Thrawn was uniquye among Chiss instead of Chiss all being like Thrawn (in the sense of military, that is).

[Trejiuvanat]

The Chiss may have been a highly sophisticated society, then they found lots of enemies in the Unknown Region, thus the Nuruodo family ( to which Thrawn belongs) rose in importance. Look at the structure of the Chiss. The have 28 colonies qhich are protected the Phalanxes, and they have also the Expansionary Defense Fleet.

[SOCL]

The Chiss may have been a highly sophisticated society, then they found lots of enemies in the Unknown Region, thus the Nuruodo family ( to which Thrawn belongs) rose in importance. Look at the structure of the Chiss. The have 28 colonies qhich are protected the Phalanxes, and they have also the Expansionary Defense Fleet.

That's quite true. But even so, it still doesn't seem to me that the Chiss want to stay a militaristic society but are instead being forced by some force or another to stay so(whether it be internal politics or some outside force).

[Trejiuvanat]

So, you'll agree with me that they are a militaristic society(whther they want it or not)?

[SOCL]

So, you'll agree with me that they are a militaristic society(whther they want it or not)?

Yes, I do agree, but they are so because of matters they can not control. I have a few theories about the situation concerning the idea of their not wanting to be militaristic. . . .