Why an empire?

[AdmiralToguroAni]

This thought occurred to me. The Emperor was around 50-60 years old. I'm going to say 55 in Phantom Menace and 65-70 (forgot how long the Ep.2-3 gap was) in Episode II when he becomes the emperor. Even if I'm off by 10 years, it doesnt really matter. My question is, why would Palpatine want to build an empire? Here are my thoughts:

 

He's so smart that he's able to orchestrate the war, and hold an Empire for 20 years. The whole thing seems to well planned for the purpose of sitting on a throne saying "Overlord! Overlord! OVERLORD!!!!" He had to have had a reason to do it.

 

He uses his apprentices, teaching them only what they need to serve him, then discarding them. This seems to say that he doesn't want to strengthen the Sith, but that he uses his Sith powers and apprentices as a means to some other end.

 

Does he believe that the universe would benefit under one ruler with almighty power? That under an empire, the universe would be more secure, and overall, a better place? Perhaps, but we don't get the impression that he's trying to make the galaxy a better place from his time in the senate.

 

Is he xenophobic and the Empire is a means to quash/suppress alien races? Again, possibly. However, most of the mention of the Empire's xenophobia stems from the Expanded Universe, likely drawing from the fact that all of the Imperial Officers were white male humans. However, The Prequel trilogy refutes this by having Palpy have an alien apprentice and his senate aids were all alien.

 

In the expanded universe, we discover Palpatine has clones all over the place. By using the EU we can conclude that he intended to rule forever. In the movies alone, however, its pretty obvious that Palpy doesnt have long to live in ROTJ. His second in command is his apprentice, and I doubt Vader could be a bureacrat. So, why do you think he started the empire?

[Darth_Rob]

It was his way of finally ridding the galaxy of the Jedi and thus bringing in a new era of the Sith. A normal person would have had several apprentices, but Palpy wanted to keep with Sith traditions, so only had one at a time. I don't think he set Maul up. Maul was simply over-powered by having to face two Jedi at once. As for Dooku, he kept him around until he found someone who was more powerful and could be of greater help to his ultimate goal of destroying all Jedi, so he betrayed Dooku for Anakin. He then kept Vader until the end. The Empire was all about destroying the Jedi order, and it worked for the most part. Most of the Jedi were killed by Palpy and Vader, until the son of Skywalker arrived and outdid his father, bringing Anakin back and ridding the galaxy of Palpy for a short time.

[Darth_Rob]

To add a short note to this, Palpy also needed an Empire that believed in him to help disolve the Jedi. He needed to get the galatic populace to believe that the Jedi, a many, many year guardian of the Republic, had turned on the very people they were sworn to protect. This would allow him to start the mass assassinations of the Jedi (via a powerful Sith apprentice and a clone army) while telling civilians that it had to be done since the Jedi had betrayed the Republic. The Empire was also like a slap in the face to the Jedi. The Jedi had lived and fought for the Republic, but that had been replaced by the Sith, who ran the Empire as tryants, tightning their grip on the galaxy.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

So you believe that the empire was a means to annhilate the Jedi? That makes sense

[Evaders99]

Note that the Empire's 6-spoked logo is direct mark against the Jedi's 8-spoked logo. The Empire is represented to replace the Jedi, and desecrating the Jedi logo as well.

[DarthTofu]

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

As stated by Anakin in ROTS. Maybe Palpy wasn't just warping Anakin's mind, maybe he believed all that he stated, that the Sith were the good guys and such. After all, if you read the novelized ROTS he presents some great arguments- if we are born with emotions, then why is it wrong to use them? I mean, note Maul and Dooku- niether of them are excessively cruel or unusual, they just attack clear and distinct enemies. Sure, they invaded their enemies' planets out of greed and all, but it would be simple to justify such.

[DarthTex]

I believe that Palpy is an "ends-justify-the-means" type of guy. He probably hated the inefficiency and corruption of the bureacrats (for whatever reason, maybe he got shafted by someone he thought was less deserving or something when he was young). But anyway, early in his life he came to the conclusion that a single "just" person would be a better ruler than an inefficient and corrupt Republic. The Jedi would be the only real obstacle to stop a single person from trying to control the Republic, therefore he sought out means to defeat them (the Jedi archrivals, the Sith). In ANH he finally got around to dissolving the Senate (I believe Tarkin said they were corrupt and decayed remments of the Old Republic). Although young Palpy may have had good intentions, he probably forgot "absoulte power corrupts absolutely". And so he set himself up as Emperor to rule for the good of all the citizens of the galaxy (whether they liked it or not). Since there were those that opposed his views (i.e. the Rebellion. They remembered past histories of tyrants), he had to maintain his power by prioritizing the military to keep opposing views from reaching the rest of the galaxy. Eventually people would want a change, so he had to "maintain" order (his might makes right) to keep him in control.

 

 

Playing one of AdmiralToguroAni's "what if's", IF there were no Jedi in the Republic, there would be no Sith. And Palpy would still be Emperor (just like in our own past history: Caesar, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Napolean, Hitler, Stalin, and soon someday ... SpongeBob Squarepants ).

[Darth_Rob]

Note to all: I started reading the ROS novel. Dooku shares with the reader that he feels that the aliens are not deserving of power and wealth. He knows that once Palpy becomes Emperor, the CIS alien worlds will lose all their standing in the galaxy, and over time the same goes for other non-human races as well. So perhaps the Empire was also established to abolish non-humans as well as the Jedi.

[Paul]

Rob, you will love the book. It really shows how Palpatine thinks and acts.-Grand Moff Conway

[Zer_Teron]

He did everything for only one purpose, POWER

 

I hate the Emperor, if someone had been smart and strong enough to overthrough him and take over the Empire might have crushed the Rebellion and would have stood for 8 Billion Years. It might have become the Post-GCW Treaty Empire that i love.

[Paul]

You traitor!! All true Imperials know that the post Endor Empire is fragmented and weak. The Empire under Palpatine was the one true Empire that MOST Imperials cherish and are devoted to.-Grand Moff Conway

[Darth_Rob]

I agree. The Emperor planned his coup for YEARS before he struck. I'd guess he was planning for at least 20 years or so. That takes a hell of a lot of patience and determination. No one could have led the Empire better than Palpatine!

[DarthTofu]

I still say he was scizofrenic, though.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

No one could have made an empire better than Palpatine, but I think someone could have ran it better. Without an adequate chain of command, the whole thing went kaput after 20 or 30 years. As evil as the empire was, it was only a drop in the bucket compared to the 10,000 year old Republic. The Republic lasted through Kun's rebellion, plus that whole mess in KOTOR. The Empire gets slagged due to a few rebels and one Jedi. Palpatine may have been an excellent creator, but he wasn't much of a sustainer.

[DarthTofu]

Or it might have been that he didn't care- after all, you can only rule for your life- after that there's nothing really left to worry about... 'Course, I suppose this could start a religous debate, but I feel that Palpy just didn't take steps to prevent decline in the event of his death- what does he care? He's dead!

[Zer_Teron]

The Empire fell so quickly because Palpatine died in the middle of the deciding battle between the forces. If someone had overthrown and taken command, Ysanne Isard maybe, their would have been time to get used to it. They would be free of the Emperors influence and would be free to combat the way they should.

[DarthTex]

There was a chain of command. Vader would have been next in line if only he would have let Luke strike down the Emperor, but I digress. It seems the chain should have went: Palpatine to Vader to some Grand Admiral to (regular) admirals/generals. Since most were killed on the DS II, that left only the (regular) admirals/generals* who would rather picker among themselves than follow the most senior admiral/general as leader. They each (wrongly) believed that "he" should be the one in charge. So the Empire splittered into its factions because there were too many "chief want-to-be's".

 

 

*We do know some of the Grand Admirals survived, but for various reasons didn't get to "restore the Imperial yoke" in a timely manner.

[DarthTofu]

To paraphrase (not quote, paraphrase) Zahn's Heir to the Empire, he mentions that all of the good, intelligent, promising officers had been secured spots on the Executor or the Death Star II. Thus, bye-bye all Imperial forces that are worth a nickle.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

Again, this reinforces what a poor Emperor Palpatine was. A heck of a Sith Lord, a crappy emperor. He put all his eggs in one basket with the Death Star (two baskets w/ the Executor). Imagine Vader in charge of the Empire anyway--it just wouldn't work. Palpatine had military leaders and hitmen in the running for succession, but no one who was skilled in politics, like he was.

 

Tofu suggests that Palpatine just didn't care what happened after he died, and perhaps that is correct. It would certainly explain why he never bothers to keep apprentices. However, we had earlier thought that the purpose of the Empire was to destroy the Jedi. The Imperial Admirals, who believed the Jedi to be an "ancient religion" would not be on the lookout for them, and Vader just isnt capable of all the political necessities of running an Empire.

 

It seems that in the end, Palpatine was just a very greedy man who wanted power and used the Dark Side as a means to get that power. If thats the case, then I'm disappointed. Very few people rise to power for the sake of power itself. I had hoped that Palpy was a more robust character than that, but it seems that he really might be the stereotypical "evil overlord."

[Zer_Teron]

I believe that the best person to lead the Empire would have been Captain Pallaeon. He had the Tactical skills, and the Diplomatic skills necessary. Plus he wasnt an ego bucket or overconfident fool.

[DarthTofu]

I believe that the best person to lead the Empire would have been Captain Pallaeon. He had the Tactical skills, and the Diplomatic skills necessary. Plus he wasnt an ego bucket or overconfident fool.

 

Well, he sort of did in the Imperial Remenant and all... And I suppose the Grand Admirals sort of dissprove my theory- Palpy had the initiative to hire Thrawn, despite his being an alien, and thus had a great Leader in addition to Isard, and possibly even Zinj (He used to be Imperial, right?). Maybe the issue was having too many leaders and not enough followers- its sort of like having twenty guns with one bullet apiece- each is deadly, but they're very ineffective in a firefight since you keep having to switch guns... And we'll also assume that each gun's bullett is incompatable with the others

[Guest Scathane]

He probably hated the inefficiency and corruption of the bureacrats...

Yes, he did, the Star Wars Online Databank states as much. It also states that Palpatine killed his master upon achieving his own mastery in concordance with sith tradition. Wasn't it simply a question of becoming the ultimate sith master for Palpatine? This certainly would endorse the point Tofu and ToguroAni are trying to make: he'd never care to whatever happened to anything after he'd die. If you are raised following a tradition wherein your pupil will eventually be your downfall, then immortality and ruling forever become the means to achieve the ultimate (say, bhudda) status.

 

And, come on guys, he is sith, you know...

[Karpman]

i went to to the database link and found this.

 

"the dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.

 

To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts"

-star wars online databank

 

 

i dont think he planned on dieing.

what are the names of the books where luke skywalker turns to the darkside?

[DarthTex]

Supposedly, whenever Palpy switched into a new clone body his mind ... "cracked another marble" or "another screw got loose". Basically he was starting to lose it mentally. He might have had a supply of clone bodies, but I don't think he had the "soul"? to pull it off indefinitely. Exar Kun had the mind, just not the bodies

 

Karpman wrote:

 

... what are the names of the books where luke skywalker turns to the darkside?

 

I believe that occured in the Dark Horse comics.

 

 

 

PS - post number 400!

[Darth_Rob]

It was a graphic novel (comic book) series called Dark Empire. I purchased the entire collection into one book for about $20. Very, very good.

 

 

http://www.rebelscum.com/darkhorse_darkempire.asp

[DarthTofu]

 

PS - post number 400!

 

Way to go on the 400 posts, Tex! *Takes a sweeping bow* this is actually an accomplishment for you seeing as you don't apparently log onto the forums every three hours like myself