Mechanics - inside Rebellion

[Trejiuvanat]

Well I'm not a programmer I only have an analytic mind ...so I have send today some ideas to Mask about cracking the source code...I hope they are good enough to pot you guy's on the right track

 

You still haven't understood that backengineering teh source code is illegal, have you?

 

All we can do is toy around with the dat files and figure out how to change things from there.

[ADarkJedi44]

its always fun when a 9 month old post is revived.

[Cain]

Ok Trej ... we just want to admire it we will forget after a minute what we have seen

[Texas_Fett]

Btw - if anyone wants my SWR patch, talk to me, or perhaps the_mask(if he allows). you'll be able to run SWR without the CD which allows for some good editing. Good luck guys!

 

I don't get, what you mean with if he allows, but I now remember something about your revised version of the patch, I'll mail ya about it.

 

This patch also allows you to use new movies and music for Rebellion, without having to somehow make a new CD image with those new files.

 

Hey, that sounds like just the thing I need! What's the filesize on it?

[Trejiuvanat]

Wait and see, Tex.

Mask was about to release the patch soon!

[Texas_Fett]

Whoops! My bad...I thought it was something that's been out for awhile. Edited March 9, 2004 by Texas_Fett

[errantone]

Bumping a very useful post. Been hoping to find a post with this info in it. Want to dig in the .DAT files and mess around.

 

great info here!

 

edit: I nominate this post to get a sticky to keep it up top.

[Slocket]

Back to playing Rebellion. EAW is not really a true sequal to Rebellion. I wish EAW was not dumbed down so much.

 

I have made many more new additional discoveries in the .dat files. How to change ALL the planet random facilites for one at game start. IE random default pre-made (refinery, defense, space station, traing ground, etc). Even some info on how a planet is assigned a random resource and energy.

 

I do notice that changes to that AI value in Capital ships does not affect it moral. I think it may be there for auto-resolve only. I set a corvette very high and the AI still turns tail and runs away.

 

I even set a corvette very high firepower and still it will not take on a basic Carrack. The AI is programed to evaluate the situation to fight or not, but the changed to these data files via Rebed or just plain Hex editing just will not make the AI "brave" unless it is in its favor. The fight algoryth does count the total ships and fighters, but it maybe be hard coded.

 

You can make a VSD with no firepower, no Tie fighters in it, and the Rebel AI will still run away from it even though it is a sitting duck. These 'Morale' values must be stored either in one of the dat (it is not in the capital ship dat file) or it is in the ***. By finding that value, I can change a value in the code to make it work better and generate a new CRC. I just cannot change the total lenght or add new code to make the algoryth smarter.

 

IE write a new engine EXE would be faster, would anyone get upset if I showed how to change values to make the Morale a ship fighting better? Or how to get the AI to Bombard one of your planets with a Laser battery?

 

BTY i used PE Explorer to dissasemble the program. I can find raw data to change things like Rate of Resource depletion. Events such as Hans getting taken by Jabba. Since it is not high level compiled code, I have to use a stepper bugger and the ASM as a guide to find a hex value.

 

People say this is encrypted. It does not seem to be to me with these new tools that are out.

 

I am almost to the point of writing my own game to get around all these dumbed down gameplay and piss poor AI for kids games being released now a days.

[tacoJoemeru]

Great job, and good luck!

[DarthTex]

I have made many more new additional discoveries in the .dat files. How to change ALL the planet random facilites for one at game start. IE random default pre-made (refinery, defense, space station, traing ground, etc). Even some info on how a planet is assigned a random resource and energy.

Fascinating! Please elaborate on this. I would love to change a few system names (i.e. Kuat, Fondor, etc; which can be done easily enough) and load them up with shipyards, but currently that part is not possible with RebEd. It seems you have solved the enigma of my problem. I await patiently for your methods

 

As for the ship "AI value" or "morale" (whatever you want to call it), it definitely is a pain in the arse. I've swapped out weaker ships for stronger ships, but yet it still behaves like a weakling. I've even used the SWEditor to change the AI value (as you mentioned) to no noticeable effect

 

As for "how" you find such information, ... I would just ignore that method for "public" publication . We don't want you or anyone else (who's a real fan) to get into any trouble. Although if people were to PM you, you could choose to answer (or not) their queries

[Jahled]

Sounds interesting! So after all this time we may be getting to the twilight of the natural disaster and other stupid things like the two-slot outer rim system..

 

Woo to you Slocket!

[Slocket]

I will stay away from the changes to the *** for now. Thanks to new software programs, it is possible to make value changes, such as a chance probability number, or simply turn an event on/off. But that is is the limitation of the code without the source and re-compiling it. So I do not feel it is 'breaking' anything.

 

I put much time into understanding the game since it was one of the few that had alot of potential. Someday I want to make a 'new' written game and then people can 'mod' it to look like what you want. If you know what I mean.

 

There are two Dat files that control the variables for the Core system planets and the Rim system planets. it is given as a probability variable away that is further modified by another 'side variable' (that is what it is called) table. These are in teh external DAT files. No one so far has diagramed them ASFAIK.

 

I can show you the basic structure in a new post. The planets have a proabability value to have one of up eight different facility on them. They differ for core and rim. When a game starts, it wil determine the probabilty and random number of how many of that facility on a planet. It goes down the list until the given slots number is 'full'. So if one entry is left zero, the next more rare in line will fill in its place more. Rather a neat trick.

 

One thing to note, the numbers that control the raw resource and energy of a planet is also in yet another file I have not got to yet. Not all Dat files have been explored. Only Coruscant and Yavin have a override dat file to avoid the randomeness. Maybe other planets could be given ther own unique file to override the pasic behavior. So you will not find a file that cantains the absolute (plus or minus) values for any given planet.

 

Side note on the Ship Morale. AS you found out, the AI tends to be a coward in fights it cannot win, nor willing to bombard a planet. But I have seen it happen over hundreds of games. It is just very rare. (Even built a Death Star once (only once ) over the years I played the game.

 

By careful observation and hours of testing...it gives me clues to where and what it is stored. It may very well be in this one odd DAT file that contains unique probability values. I think this may hold the chance values for a given behavior. Else, I will go in with ICE Breaker and hunt down the subroutine value in ASM and change it (low level language is not easy to work with , just a step above machine code). The program is not encryted to make a HEX substitution for a variable value. But that is as far as I can go. I can make value changes, turn events on/off..stuff like that.

 

If I want a real AI, then I will write a new game from scratch based upon this one. Of course names and SFX sounds would be changed so not to run into Lucifer's copyright material liscense....but if you guys know basic file substition...just swap whatever you want back in (hint) to make it look like the original. Palpy=Palpatine. The Force=Schwartz. Laser sound-->real laser sound. You get the idea, and it is legal.

 

The should have made a worthy Rebellion 2 with EAW neat graphics 3D engine. Maybe I can combine the two together as a way future project.

 

For know, let me show you the Planets Facility file diagram. Coming up next post. A bit long but you will get the idea.

[Slocket]

SYFCCRTB.DAT AND SYSFCRMTB.DAT

 

Contain the random seed generation tables of probabilities for ALL the planets that are Core or Rim systems. SYtem FaCility CoRe TaBle DATA.

 

These files do not change the number of mines or energy a planet start with. It does control the chances and how many of each one of these facilites a Core system or a Rim system will have and its Level.

 

Core

 

1: 0,0

2: 36%, 2, Refinery-45

3: 79%, 1, Shipyard-40

4: 82%, 2, Training-41

5: 85%, 3, Construction-42

6: 88%, 3, Shield-36

7: 96%, 2, Laser-35

8: 99%, 1, Ion-34

 

The LOWER the number to zero, the MORE in proportion of those that will be placed on a planet. For the Rim file the Refinery is set for 91%. It seems backwards. 91, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, no entry for ion cannon for Rim.

 

The second number controls what level of facility it is (same numbers as RebEd makes in hex files). Example change the first "3" for Contruction Yard to a "6" will make all planets random seeded Construction Yards to be the Advanced variety at game start. The formula is n=n+3 gives the advanced version. Advanced shipyard change the 1 to a 4. Advanced Training Yard change the 2 to a 5. Advanced Shield is change 3 to a 6, and advanced laser change 2 to a 5.

 

A core world can be any world that is marked as colonized. So if you use ReEd and make a Rim system colonized, then that planet will be just as developed as a Core system.

 

Small changes make a huge difference, but this can be used to alter the initial facility starting condition of the game.

 

I wonder which files holds the seed table data for the Political Favor and (planet mines/Energy).

 

I also like to change the Contruction, Training and such to their more Advanced version to help you and the AI and get the game going faster by changing the Family type using a hex editor. IE Have planet seed with Advanced Construction Yards instead of Normal Yards.

 

Of course making a nice user friendly Windows GUI to do this for people would be nice. I have not done that yet.

[Jahled]

*Pats Slocket on the back*

 

Of course making a nice user friendly Windows GUI to do this for people would be nice. I have not done that yet

 

http://www.jahled.co.uk/Santa_arrives_sm.gif

 

[vakundok]

And you can see that the very same system is used to give the starting assets (spec forces, fleets and garrisons). (With the exception of ground troops needed to maintain order on rebelling worlds.)

 

Are you sure that whether a planet is core or rim is decided based on its colonization status? I thought that it was based on their family, but I never tested it.

[Slocket]

I wonder what file controls the random Political Favor at start. There is a file called BasicSD.dat that looks interesting. **I have not found the files that controls the starting troops, spec ops or fleets yet, as you noticed.

 

Thanks Jahled...I can use one!

 

I noticed that if a set the Rim Worlds as colonized via RebEd, the file and game exe will re-write the systemsd.dat file as a core world 144 to 146 (90h to 92h). Thus that Colonized Rim world will be initialized with the same facility table as the Core file.

 

Else if it is found by normal in game exploration, then it uses the other Rim file.

 

I am going to run some more test to see what a normal game will be like in exploration with just the basic Core file changed to know for sure (some Rim worlds are 'colonized' upon finding them if they have any facility at all according to the Rim facility file.). If you know what files that controls the initial game random set up for Troops, Fleets, Spec Ops I would be nice to know those files.

 

I would also like to know what controls the Political Favor, Mines, and Planet Energy randomness.

 

Then an initial galaxy setup editor can be made with more options to start off a game. This is in addition to what RebEd can already do.

 

**Update: I found the files that controls the initial fleet/troop set ups are the random seed tables CMUN*TB.dat

 

CMUNAFTB.DAT = Alliance Fleet (Home)

CMUNEFTB.DAT = Empire Fleet (Home)

CMUNALTB.DAT = Alliance Random planet Fleets

CMUNEMTB.DAT = Empire Random planet Fleets

CMUNCRTB.DAT = Coruscant garrision- solid

CMUNHQTB.DAT = Alliance Headquater garrison- solid

CMUNYVTB.DAT = Alliance Yavin garrision -solid

 

For fun, if you set up a game with the empire plenty of resource for maintenance...you can give the Empire AI a free Death Star right at the start of the game...and it will come hunt you down!

[Defender_16]

*CRIES*

 

It's all so beautiful... my hope for Rebellion has been renewed.

[Jahled]

*Looks around*

 

Slocket?

[errantone]

SYFCCRTB.DAT AND SYSFCRMTB.DAT

 

Contain the random seed generation tables of probabilities for ALL the planets that are Core or Rim systems. SYtem FaCility CoRe TaBle DATA.

 

These files do not change the number of mines or energy a planet start with. It does control the chances and how many of each one of these facilites a Core system or a Rim system will have and its Level.

 

Core

 

1: 0,0

2: 36%, 2, Refinery-45

3: 79%, 1, Shipyard-40

4: 82%, 2, Training-41

5: 85%, 3, Construction-42

6: 88%, 3, Shield-36

7: 96%, 2, Laser-35

8: 99%, 1, Ion-34

 

I might be able to add a GUI for editing these files in the upcoming weeks. Also, if anyone has figured out other file formats, I will consider coding them up and putting them into the editor.

 

If someone really has alot of time on their hands, tackle the save file format. If we can figure that out, we can do alot of things to a rebellion game. Basically, we can have a tool to generate most any starting conditions we want.......once we crack the format and a tool is written to generate save program data.

[Terran]

Hi, sorry for my bad english, I am Spanish.

 

Well, I have edited CMUNEFTB.DAT to test some things, changing 85 00 00 1C for 86 00 00 1C and the Empire ALWAYS begins with a SSD!!!

 

The troops and the figthers can be replaced too (for example, change stormtroopers by Fleet Regiments or even Mon Calamari!!!, but I havent tested yet to add more ships or figthers in the homeworld (coruscant)

 

So, I can change the principal ship for any type, change the 6 fighters for any type (interceptors, bombers, defenders) and change the 3 troops regiments.

 

I will try to add more ships in the beginning to the Empire, but It seems difficult.

 

PD: Thanks a lot for the information in this forum!!!

[Terran]

More information, VERY IMPORTANT!

 

Well, still editing CMUNEFTB.DAT I have discover the way to add more ships, fighters and troops.

 

At the begining of the file, there is a "0A" in hex, in dec is "10". This means that only 10 elements are generated:

 

1 ships (always a ISD)

6 fighters (Tie F)

3 Stoormtroopers

 

Total: 10

 

I have ALWAYS the same results, in hardest difficult and biggest galaxy.

If you change this "0A" for "0B", you can add one element more. I have tested with adding another Stoormtroopers, and It seems to work perfect.

 

If you add in the file this "structure" : 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 00 00 10 , another stoormtropper is generated in the fleet in Coruscant.

 

Now, the game always make 1 ISD, 6 Ties and 4 stoormtroopers

 

I will continue researching, if I can add more ships

[DarthTex]

... If you add in the file this "structure" : 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 00 00 10 , another stoormtropper is generated in the fleet in Coruscant.

 

Now, the game always make 1 ISD, 6 Ties and 4 stoormtroopers

 

I will continue researching, if I can add more ships

Excellent work Terran! Just one question (because I'm curious and a stickler for details): How do you squeeze four stormtroopers on an ISD that is supposedly only able to carry three?

 

Okay, I have some more follow on questions. If you do get four stormtroopers at startup on the ISD, if you move the fourth troop to the system, can it go back to the fleet? (meaning, will the max 3 troop limit be enforced, or will that ship or that class of ship now be able to carry 4 troops for the rest of the game?).

 

What do you do (and where) to change the "fighter" types (from Ties to whatever)?

 

Keep up the good work!!

[Terran]

Sorry, that was tested when I changed th ISD (85) for the SSD (86), so It have enough space to four stormtroopers. It seems that the fleet in Coruscant is not randomly generated, in ALL my test, always apear the SSD, 6 Ties and 4 Stormtroopers (and sometimes more ships, but they are generated randomly to be in any planet)

 

Anyway, if you change the ISD for a Carrack, for example, the game will not crash, and the Carrack will have 6 Ties and 4 Stormtrooper inside

 

You can get them to move the to the planet, but obviously, you cant reload then in the Carrack (I think )

 

I have been testing some things in the way that Rebellion randomly creates fleets at the begining for the Empire, and I can make the Empire start with 3-4 ISDs (but no VSDs, Dreads or Galleons)

 

I still dont know how to increase the amount of ships, but in my free time, I will be working on that.

 

I hope that the forum member that created the SWRE editor can see this and upgrade his program to make changes in the fleet on Coruscant. We can make a harder game for the rebels if we put a lot of ships, fighters and troops in Coruscant

[Jahled]

You can get them to move the to the planet, but obviously, you cant reload then in the Carrack (I think )

 

Nice work fella on your wider findings!

 

On this particularly point, it doesn't matter what you load up in the standard slots for starting ships and fighters/regiments etc. Giving the rebels Neb-2's in the Gallowfree slow wont crash the game, for example for starting with regiments, but ingame play works just as Terran points out. The AI/you can't reload them once deployed.

[DarthTex]

More information, VERY IMPORTANT!

 

Well, still editing CMUNEFTB.DAT I have discover the way to add more ships, fighters and troops.

 

At the begining of the file, there is a "0A" in hex, in dec is "10". This means that only 10 elements are generated:

 

1 ships (always a ISD)

6 fighters (Tie F)

3 Stoormtroopers

 

Total: 10

 

I have ALWAYS the same results, in hardest difficult and biggest galaxy.

If you change this "0A" for "0B", you can add one element more. I have tested with adding another Stoormtroopers, and It seems to work perfect.

 

If you add in the file this "structure" : 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 00 00 10 , another stoormtropper is generated in the fleet in Coruscant.

 

Now, the game always make 1 ISD, 6 Ties and 4 stoormtroopers

 

I will continue researching, if I can add more ships

Okay, I did a little fooling around with this same file (CMUNEFTB.DAT), which generates the Imperial starting fleet at Coruscant, and I have made some interesting progress. I have figured out how to add more ships (all of the same type though) and more units on them (starfighters and troops). Basically I used a hex editor to change numbers here and there, started up the game and checked on what happened (or not). Check the image below for details ...

 

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4383/dataforcmuneftbiq7.th.jpg

 

(to actually read the info, click to enlarge)

 

I hope this helps out some people, it'll definitely make the game more interesting now

 

The next item I'll try to find out (about this same file) is if it's possible to add more than one type of ship

 

 

PS Thanks to Terran for piqueing my curiosity