Who's stronger, Yoda or Emperor Palpatine?

[Darth_Rob]

Ok. We saw in Episode III that Palpy and Yoda had a very, very interesting duel. Palpy ended up forcing Yoda to turn tail and run. Do you agree with this? Had there been a battle to the death, who do you think would have won? Who is the better master of the Force?

[DarthTex]

My vote goes to Yoda. Note the big "IF" here. IF order 66 wasn't killing Jedi all over the galaxy, and the "military" had not turned on the Jedi, then I believe in a long drawn out duel Yoda would have taken Palpatine. I think Yoda had the "edge" (and not a big one mind you) battling Palpatine in the Senate chambers, and that Palpatine knew it. Palpatine looked like he was getting desparate at times (maybe this helped "spark" some of his Dark Side reserves?). But as we see in the movie, Yoda is "alone" while Palpatine has clone trooper reinforcements (more of a distraction than a threat). And Yoda must either kill all of them before going after Palpatine. Yoda is not into "killing innocents" as they have fallen for Palpatine's lies and treachery. So in a better part valor, he retreats with his honor intact and his dignity wounded.

[Mad78]

i think that during Ep. III Yoda would have been able to beat Palpy but around Return of the Jedi I ain't so sure.

[NIIIC]

I would put my money on Palpy, because he uses dark force. And even if the Dark side isn't stronger, it still is far more affective if you want to kill some one. And also because Palpy has no dignity, so he would be traitorous and fight like a traitor with no honour. Ex: attack in the back or when you are knocked out.

[Jahled]

Which one ended up living in a hut in a swamp, and which one ruling the galactic empire? The Sith triamphed against overwelming odds of similar force skill; figure: Palpatine plus one at one point against an entire order.

 

The Dark Side's demise at the hands of itself ultimately in RoftJ demonstrates it's ultimate weakness.

[Thrawn90]

Indeed, I'd also put my money on palpy. He'd fight dirty, like sand in the eyes, groin hits (or w/e the force-weilding equivalents of those are)...

[Terlan]

in a fight to the death I think yoda would have won but by that point in the movie even if he beat Palpatine the Jedi were dead and there was nothing he could do at that point to stop the Republic from turning into the Empire.

[Darth_Rob]

I must personally decide on Palpy. He was extremely proficient with a lightsaber, and his Force lightning could whup ass. The Dark Side is a very powerful force to be reckoned with. We saw Maul hold his own very well against two Jedi, Dooku took out two Jedi and held his own against a master right after, and we know that Vader also a dangerous foe. Palpatine would definetly have been able to dispose of Yoda had they been in a duel to the death.

[BadSamaritan]

You seem to forget one major factor. Yoda was unwilling to give it give it his all for fear of death. Why? Because he knew for certain that he had to live to fight another day. Except for Obi-Wan and a few other Jedi that survived, there was no one to train future Jedi for the fight that Yoda had to have known would eventually come.

 

If it hadn't been for order 66, and there were still Jedi everywhere, Yoda would have been more than willing to give it everything he had, and then some, knowing there would be others to carry on the fight. He would have simply overwhelmed Palpy with force powers to take him down, possibly even killing himself in the process. Kind of like a self destruct using the force.

[DarthTofu]

I gotta agree with samaritan- he could've pulled something along the lines of what Anakin does in Star-by-Star and won the fight through self-sacrifice.

[Darth_Rob]

I dont know. He could have tried to overwhelm Palpatine with the Force, but at the same time, the Emperor could have negated that power. Just as Yoda is able to negate Force lightning (against Dooku in ATC), the Emperor would have had mastery of the Force in order to protect himself.

 

Also, Palpatine hinted at being Plagious apprentice, and being so, he would have had the knowledge he claimed Plagious had to maintain life. I don't know if Yoda had that power. Sure, he lived over 900 years, but that could have been due to his race.

[Paul]

My money is with Palpatine/Sidious all the way. Of course I am biased as an Imperial Grand Moff, but hey!- Grand Moff Conway

[Eko]

Mines on Yoda, I think that BadSamaritan is on to it, if he had been willing to die (which he would have if he wasn't one of the only Jedi left...) then I think he would have taken him.

[DarthTofu]

Also, you'll notice that Yoda was severely hurt as the jedi died, feeling their deaths through the force. That had to be a major handicap.

[Paul]

You guys are being afflicted with the "Good guys must win" disease, in my humble opinion.-Grand Moff Conway

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I don't think that Yoda sensing the deaths of the other Jedi would have effected his ability to fight. Any Force-user would have sensed that, even Palpatine, and would have been equally effected. It's really just a sudden fluxuation in the Force.

 

I think in the end the Emperor would have been the victor, though to be sure it would have been close.

[Eko]

I don't think that Yoda sensing the deaths of the other Jedi would have effected his ability to fight. Any Force-user would have sensed that, even Palpatine, and would have been equally effected. It's really just a sudden fluxuation in the Force

 

Yes. The difference is, I think, that Yoda felt it as a physical blow, a betrayal that caught him by suprise.....

[Darth_Rob]

One of the upper hands that Palpy had was that he had just spent unknown years working his way up through galatic politics to get to where he was. He had to endure countless boring social events and whatnot, pretending to enjoy himself, all the while plotting his inevitable rise to power. When he was finally able to name himself as "Emperor", he was not about to let Yoda cut his fun short so quickly. Palpy had every intention of ruling the galaxy with an iron fist for many a year, and no one was going to stop him.

[DarthTofu]

Actually, i don't know about that. Maybe Palpy was Scyzophrenic. Consider this- he's constantly surrounded by Jedi, and yet he somehow manages to keep from them the fact that he's a sith lord? I'm not buying it- if they couldn't sense him with the force, they would have been suspicious. Therefor Palpy had one personality which could not use the force and was merely the "Evil Power-hungry-senator" Palpy. On the other hand, we have the Sith personality which could use the force. THus he didn't have to pretend to enjoy himself at crappy parties- he did! And by the way, Thrawn- Palpy tells Anakin that he will only be strong enough in the Dark Side when he has killed all of the Jedi in the Jedi temple. This implies that Dark Jedi Gain power in the Dark Side as their bretheren of the light side die.

[Darth_Rob]

Yoda successfully hid on Dagobah for many years without being detected by Vader or the Emperor. I believe a powerful Jedi master can hide his thoughts as well as his presense from other Jedi.

[DarthTofu]

No, see, all living things exist in the force- correct? SO if you take the force and wrap it in real tight, you can't be detected through the force, right? So then, if Palpy had been doing that the whole time, someone might have mentioned 'hey, I can't feel the supreme chancellor through the force. What's up with that?". This is supported by "I, Jedi" when Corran goes into the ancient Sith Temple place.

[DarthTex]

Darth_Rob wrote:

 

Yoda successfully hid on Dagobah for many years without being detected by Vader or the Emperor. I believe a powerful Jedi master can hide his thoughts as well as his presense from other Jedi.

 

Yoda chose Dagobah because (according to some novel, I don't remember which), Yoda defeated a Dark Jedi in combat in a cave (the cave that Luke is eventually "tested" in). The cave now "eminates" the Dark Side, which provides a "cloak" (so to speak) for Yoda's "Light Side".

 

In the NJO series, Vergere said she learned to conceal her Jedi powers (the Force?) by "pulling it inside of her". Making it so small it couldn't be detected (but it was still there). Palpatine might also have this knowledge so he could "hide in plain sight"?

[Defender_16]

Even in 'I, Jedi' Corran relied on closing down his force presence to reduce his detection. Mind you the people looking for him were only half trained in the ways of the force.

 

Yoda using the Cave as a mask works in that he could remain using the force and not be detected because the 'dark' would essentially cancel out his 'light' making it seem as if nothing was there from most distances.

 

In a fight to the death I think Yoda could win. In the situation he was in though he would be more valuable to the surviving Jedi alive. He could have killed Palaptine but he would have died in the process, no matter what way he used to win.

[DarthTofu]

Woah, back up there- how is three gillion year-old sith lord "half-trained" in the force?

[Defender_16]

I never said anything about Palpatine being half trained.

 

___________________________

Section Discussing Force Use in "I, Jedi" by Micheal Stackpole.

*Possible Spoilers*

 

The somewhat Jedi trained Corran Horn embarks on a quest to save his kidnapped wife. Jensaarai Force users are working with an Imperial Warlord/Pirate and are holding his wife. When he infiltrates their group he "closes down" his presence in the force so other force users cant detect him.

 

This works well against the Jensaarai who are half-trained. As their training is not as extensive as that which a Jedi recieves. Even one taught by Luke Skywalker.

 

This is a demonstration of hiding using force powers. It might then be possible for a master to hide their force presence as well.

_____________________________________________________

Resuming Yoda vs Palpatine

 

There are many ways that Yoda could have defeated Palpatine. Unfortunetely these would require that Yoda get killed in the process.

The proverbial "Taking the hit" as it were.

Sacrificing ones self to the Force, etc, etc.