Beeing Promoted in the Forums

[Guest Scathane]

I would like to point out that, although debates may sometimes get somewhat heated, I don't consider this as negative and I think Thrawn doesn't either. I don't have any negative feelings toward Thrawn, in fact, I quite admire him for his debating skills...

[Stellar_Magic]

Debates are fun

 

I completely agree with that assesment, now lets see if we can try and encourage such behavior in other, more important threads.

[NIIIC]

I agree with what you said SM, and mostly with the LAST part

 

[...] in other, more important threads.

 

[Mad78]

Debats are very fun but it would be fun if we did a big debat about another larger subject.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I would like to point out that, although debates may sometimes get somewhat heated, I don't consider this as negative and I think Thrawn doesn't either. I don't have any negative feelings toward Thrawn, in fact, I quite admire him for his debating skills...

 

Quite true! People who undertake debates understand that it is very unlikely that they will be able to change thier adversary's point of view on the topic. I respect that Scath has his opinions, and he respects that I have mine. On top of that, we probably both realize that this isn't the most important topic.

 

Now, I'm only going to respond to a few of Scthane's rebuttles, for reasons you'll see at the bottom (and for the fact that eventually we'll need an entire page just for one post .)

 

I know that. However, I still found it strange that you attacks someone's source notation and then go on to do the same thing yourself. It would have strengthened your argument if you had exerted better source notation yourself.

 

Agreed.

 

You probabaly feel Marvel Comics are outdated as well, I presume.

 

Not at all. I've somply never had the chance to read them. If I could find some copies of them I'd be more than happy to include them in my list of sources.

 

As far as I know, GL has failed to explain his use of ranks satisfactorily.

 

Yes, I would greatly appreciate it if he would have a scene in Episode III with a collection of Imperial officers of each rank, but I doubt he'll be so kind.

Something else that makes it difficult is the fact that every officer in RotJ has the same rank insignia, including Piett and Jerjerrod, so there isn't even continuity in the movies.

 

Futhermore, your remark If only he could take back midi-chlorians sounded to me like something you wanted personally, is that so strange?

 

Not at all. I was trying to clarify my response, though I could have chosen better wording.

 

However, as for the rest: you yourself said that West End Games and Dicipher are no longer credible sources, which lacks the balance you point out above. Furthermore, there isn't any report anywhere explicitely stating the LA still thinks older novels, WotC or whoever are still credible sources. All organizations mentioned, though, are still quoted by LA, so as long as they quote them, they're official sources, aren't they.

 

Yes, i must conceed they are. I should have used the word accurate, as you do farther down in your post, not reliable or credible.

To add further credance to WEG, in Star Wars Insider issue 77 the Imperial Sourcebook (much to my shock ) is used as the source for a question on the Royal Guard armor. Issue 77 is the newest issue, so if you'd like to see the article it's on shelves now.

Just for interest, the Imperial Sourcebook gave a correlation between the Mandalorian armor that we see in KotOR and the Royal Guards. So, basically, the IS invented what the Mandalor would look like in KotOR.

 

If you feel the SWTC isn't the best place to get your information, then you're implying that it's unreliable.

 

If students who undertake the very same practice that Saxton does are guilty of plagiarism, then you're clearly and lucildly implying that Saxton is too, dude. So don't say you didn't accuse him.

 

Moreover, although you apologized for it, you implied that Saxton was lying about his career. If that isn't accusing someone of being unreliable, I don't know what is.

 

1. I'm implying that not all of the information found there is reliable or accurate. I only suggest that you consider the source (Saxton's source) and the reason for that source to be documenting the information.

 

2. It would only be considered pliagairism if he were submitting it to a professor for grades, or to a bublisher. Since it is posted on the internet, the same rules do not apply. You don't have to reference material in a specific way, so long as copyrighted material is acredited to the appropriate sources, which is the case with the SWTC. I was simply making a connection between his teaching at accademic institutes and the SWTC. Again, i did not accuse him of plagiarism.

 

3. That implication didn't actually need an appology due to the fact that I removed said paragraph from my post almost immediately after pressing submit. Essentially, I withdrew that statement after proving myself wrong.

 

You say that you question a source's authenticity, that it makes up it's own facts and that it's no longer credible... And you're not accusing that source of being unreliable, you say?

 

As stated above, in retrospect I've used the wrong word. Outdated is what I should have siad. As for making up facts, I think I already clarified that I mean so that they supported gameplay.

 

Lastly, you seem to invest an awful lot of time in a thread you consider to be really unimportant in the long run.

 

Because it's fun!

 

Ok, so I said onlya few, but oh well.

 

Now, a complete clarification of my stance as it has evolved throughout this debate, so that no one is left with the wrong idea:

 

The SWTC does have lots of great information in it, but I would not use it as my only resource (Scathane hasn't, so I'm nat accusing him of that, I'm just making a statement). The Imperator-Class Star Destroyer thing irks me most, but the ranking system, in my opinion, could use a little tweaking. Dr. Saxton is a credible individual, but I feel that some of his sources may not be as accurate due to the fact that newer editions have since been published, and that some information may have been inserted to enhance PR gameplay.

WEG is a credible company, I simply used the wrong vocabulary in my posting. Again, their sourcebooks may not be as accurate in light of newer publications being made, though I would have to read them to get an idea of the purpose of thier rank structure.

Decipher is a credible company, however the contradictions between their CCG and the WOC CCG make it difficult to determine which facts are "true".

This said, despite what fans may wish (me included) there is, in the end, only one truely accurate source for Star Wars Information: George lucas. he can change whatever facts he wants simply because he wants to. This makes it very difficult to believe much of what is out there. Even the EU books are not beyond his influence. The lates SW Insider says that the EU does not represent Lucas' overall resolution to events after RotJ. There is even a new electronic source for the prequals in which a caracter is named (the Neimodian who follows Gunray around in Ep II). Lucas okayed the naming, but after it went into publication, changed his mind.

So, I would suggest that we put this to rest here and now, agreeing that we'll never really come to a compromise simply because I'm too damn stubborn and set in my ways to change now. Hell, agreeing that they are sensor domes and not shield generators was hard enough for me!

I hope Scath replys to any rebuttles I've made above, and I'll read them, but I won't make any replys to them. We'll assume that these are our final arguments. It was fun, but, I'm spending too much time on this

[Barkoa]

Very eloquently stated Thrawn! Do you do debating in some league? Those were some well-thought out arguments!

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I don't debate in a league, no, and that's probably for the best. As was evident in some places here, I tend to speake before I think, and not to carefully consider my wording.

Scathane is quite good at thoroughly researching, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was in a debating club while in school or some such.

[Guest Scathane]

We rest it here... Although, I had fun debating with you, Thrawn and I admire you for your honesty regarding the Royal Guard Armor!

 

For the rest of it... No, I never was in a debating club...

[Mad78]

You should open one on the site

[Guest Scathane]

These forums practically are, aren't they?

[Mad78]

Actually they are but with multiple points of view. But a real debat like what GAT and you did is quite rare.

[Guest Scathane]

They've been know to cross our forums every now and again... Just browse the forums more or, of course, start one yourself...

[Barkoa]

It's not like you can plan one! you have to have a strong point of view that strongly disagrees with someone else. i don't think enough people have ideas of their own enough to debate!

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Actually, just pick a topic you know is touchy (not like abortion or religion, because those can be considdred too touchy), present your case, and there's bound to be some one who takes up the opposing side. Just be sure to be clear in your arguments, and try not to offend anyone.

[Trejiuvanat]

In an Argentinian Forum where I'm a member there are three forbidden topics, football, religion and politics.

 

I say we take over the latter two and add Rank Insignias!

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

How about we just ban American politics, Religion, and Rank Insignias? I don't think we could get into a heated debate over Australian politics (no offence to you Ausies out there)

[Barkoa]

That's right, because Australian Politics are really screwed up! I don't like the system, and with it being a commonwealth, it'll never be able to pull off the same world domination as the Americans! (at least not without queenies consent!)

[Guest Scathane]

Give me a political system - or a ranking system for that matter - that isn't screwed up...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I've found a ranks structure, complete with images of rank insignia, that makes sense. The only ranks that don't work for me are: Supreme Moff (that one he pulled out of somewhere) and the Grand Moff of the Order ofthe Pink Fluffy Bunny Slippers. Line Captain doesn't make sense for one reason: it's rank insignia is the same as General, but I guess there would have to be some cross over between the divisions of the military.

Yes, I know, it's almost the same as the list Dr. Saxton gives, but after actually seeing the rank insignias and the sensible progression of colours, it actually makes sense. You just have to get past the fact that the site is called the "Cult of Piett".

 

Rank List

Edited September 9, 2004 by Grand_Admiral_Thrawn

[Guest Scathane]

Could you please post a link... I mean, I can find the site, but not the page on which you found the list...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

The link is right there under my post , I should have made it stand out more, it is hard to see

[Guest Scathane]

The link is right there under my post , I should have made it stand out more, it is hard to see

Big ooops on my part...

 

Based on the ranks in SWTC, you say???!!! They just left some ranks out...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Yes, there were some ranks that were left out, but with the progression of rank insignia, I don't think they would have fit in.

 

I wonder how the Imperials can tell the officers from the Navy and Army appart if they wear the same uniforms and double over on rank insignia?

 

EDIT:I just noticed that, in the pictures of Veers from the movies, he has coloured bars rather than squares on his rank badge. Maybe this is used to distinguish military divisions?

[Mad78]

I would more have thought that they would use shoulder pads for divisions. And I have a theorie but first i must know how many men there are in a division.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

The only rank in the Star Wars universe that uses epaulets are Grand Admirals, though where that developed from I'm not sure. None of the descriptions of Thrawn in the books states that he wears gold epaulets. The only Grand Admiral who does is Zaarin.

I know you didn't say the do wear them, but it just isn't Star Wars style to do so, that's why they have the code cylenders.