Warlords: Star Trek vs. Star Wars?

[Stellar_Magic]

EvilleJedi I heard from Cain that you're planning on adding Star Trek to the Warlords Mod, and that you're looking for a Trekkie to set up the ships, they're armament, weapons capabilities and the like? I'm willing to help and I've already written some Star Trek vs Star Wars fanfiction which has appeared here and on the EAW boards.

[scorpnet]

o.0 Im a Major Trekie !! so i DEFENATLY would be willing to help out !! Plus i got a Ship idea that should be in the game =) shot me up if u want my Help !

[scorpnet]

It would be Cool to see a Seperate Mod for Star Trek. Like Warlords. There is debate over which is more powerful, So prb be best to do a Star Trek mod. I wouldnt know how ot code But i can defenatly help with the Star Trek Univers Knowledge. !

[Stellar_Magic]

Well the objective I think is to create a semi-balanced mod that incorporates both universes and accurately demonstrates the capabilities of both side's combat starships.

 

In order to do that we'll have to reconcile several major differences between star wars and star trek and give both sides a level playingfield.

 

First we'll want to ask some questions...

 

1. What Era or Eras of the Star Trek universes to include?

 

2. How different is the classification of vessels in Star Trek compared to the classifications of ships in Warlords?

 

3. How powerful are the respective weapons of each sides?

 

4. How much different are the capabilities of Star Trek and Star Wars vessels?

 

Well, I think I'm prepared to answer some of those questions.

 

1. Like the Original Warlords mod we should probably start with later eras of the Star Trek Universe. We should probably start with The Next Generation Era and perhaps move back into the Motion Picture Era.

 

2. This posses a difficult problem for the game design... So here's a basic comparison.

 

Federation Destroyers:

 

Defiant Class: The fast light destroyer of the Federation fleet. Designed to counter the Borg when deployed in large numbers.

Armament: 4 Pulse Phasers, 2 Torpedo Launchers, and 2-3 Phaser Banks

 

Sabre Class: A significantly larger vessel, the Sabre is fast, maneuverable but poorly armed.

Armament: 2 Pulse Phasers, 6-8 Phaser Banks, 1-2 Torpedo Launchers

 

Up against Victory and Imperial class star ships!!! Hello? I'd say that these fast ships would be more fitting in the Heavy Corvette or Frigate class. Unforunately this means that most Federation ships fall into the Heavy Frigate or Frigate Category. In order to come up with Destroyers and Cruisers will require some research. (Perhaps a Sovereign or Galaxy could fit in with the Destroyer class but nothing larger.)

 

3. Well, this point has been and will probably remain to be of a great amount of debate. I'd probably say that the torpedoes in Star Trek are perhaps significantly more powerful then those in Star Wars, but they are also more ballisitc in nature. When fired they tend to remain on target for only a short period of time and rarely maneuver to follow the target, I'd advocate having them put in game in a manner similar to the blasters and disruptors, you can miss with them.

 

Phasers, well phasers are almost something of a joke. They should be effective against subsystems, missiles, fighters, and corvettes but of little to no value against capital ships except in targeting the subsystems.

 

Disruptors and Pulse Phasers, for playabilities sake I'd say that these weapons are roughly equal to a heavy turbolaser in effectiveness. They also have a higher recharge rate then their star wars cousins.

 

4. Well, I'm going to advocate something rather extreme. Lets not give any of the Star Trek ships hyperspace capability. Instead lets give them a lot of speed.

 

There are three reasons for this, firstly Warp drive is significantly slower then hyperspace travel, secondly Star Trek ships will continue to engage the enemy at warp speeds and impulse drives are known to science to have significantly greater thrust then ion drives.

 

A Star Trek Cruiser like the Sovereign class can probably race along at speeds equal to a X-wing. In Star Trek: First Contact we saw the Enterprise move past a Borg cube estimated to be perhaps as large as 3 kilometers across in less then 3 seconds. Star Trek ships will have to move much faster, and use an AI system similar to the corvettes and fighters in homeworld 2.

[scorpnet]

Yes i agree with all of that

[DarthTex]

Not to throw a fly in the ointment , but I think you should make phasers the equivalent as turbolasers and pulse phasers the equivalent of heavy turbolasers. My reasoning being: in most ST (Star Trek) starship combat, phasers are THE main weapon of choice, no matter who/what the opponent. Also, small fast ships (fighter type & some shuttles) are maneuverable enough to evade phaser fire.

 

I agree that Warp Speed is definately slower than hyperspace travel, but I don't know if I would give ST starships the speed of an X-wing (I'm sure they could per your explanation, but "should" you, just to keep the game balanced). Maybe "a tad" slower than an X-wing would be enough?

 

As for the torpedoes, ST photon torpedoes are more powerful than SW (Star Wars) proton torpedoes, and ST quantum torpedoes are more powerful yet again. I think they are more "ballistic" because they are much faster than SW torpedoes, therefore they don't have to maneuver as much, but that gives you a higher "miss rate" on maneuverable opponents. I don't think I've seen a ST torpedoe fired at a highly maneuverable fighter type ship before (probably because they know they will miss). Always use the phasers first.

 

Ship classes is definitely a quandary. The ST (TOS - The Original Series) Enterprise was approximately 1000 ft long (300 meters). Compare that to an ISD at 1600 meters !! ST ships are definitely smaller, but pack a big punch for their size. Also, because of "Federation policy" there was never a "battleship" class, it's considered "too agressive". Most ships are considered cruisers or heavy cruisers (there have been some ST EU "dreadnaughts" that would be considered battleship material).

 

Manpower to crew ST starships is MUCH lower than their SW counterparts. It seems ST computers are heavily relied on and there are no "droids", where SW computers are not overly used and use many more droids. I guess this could be taken into account for "building resources"?

 

Just my two pesos worth amigo

[Stellar_Magic]

Not to throw a fly in the ointment Wink , but I think you should make phasers the equivalent as turbolasers and pulse phasers the equivalent of heavy turbolasers. My reasoning being: in most ST (Star Trek) starship combat, phasers are THE main weapon of choice, no matter who/what the opponent. Also, small fast ships (fighter type & some shuttles) are maneuverable enough to evade phaser fire.

 

Well, I can't recall seeing a starship ever being completely destroyed by phaser fire alone. (I could be wrong though). Phasers seem to be used for precise targeting, weapons and so forth. Remember in most of the series the Federation would rather disable a vessel and save the crew then destroy it outright in order to keep from starting a war. Heck in one Star Trek film we see the Enterprise-D fire a phaser barrage against an elderly Bird of Prey and fail to penetrate or even erode the shield. In my opinion phasers really aren't worth much.

 

I agree that Warp Speed is definately slower than hyperspace travel, but I don't know if I would give ST starships the speed of an X-wing (I'm sure they could per your explanation, but "should" you, just to keep the game balanced). Maybe "a tad" slower than an X-wing would be enough?

 

Actually I'd hate to say it but even the largest Star Trek ships seem to be significantly faster then an X-wing. In Star Trek: Nemesis we see the enormous Reman Scimitar conduct a 180 degree turn in less then four seconds... The Borg cubes can accelerate even faster then this (But they rarely use this in combat for some reason).

 

In truth I don't think the Federation even have a 'true' line of starfighter designs, this is simply because they don't need them. The shuttles would fit under the corvette class as would the runabouts but I can't recall a single seat fighter craft employed by the federation.

 

Ship classes is definitely a quandary. The ST (TOS - The Original Series) Enterprise was approximately 1000 ft long (300 meters). Compare that to an ISD at 1600 meters Shocked !! ST ships are definitely smaller, but pack a big punch for their size. Also, because of "Federation policy" there was never a "battleship" class, it's considered "too agressive". Most ships are considered cruisers or heavy cruisers (there have been some ST EU "dreadnaughts" that would be considered battleship material).

 

According to some literature I've read the Federation classifies the Galaxy class as a Dreadnaught, the Nebula class as a Battlecruiser, and the Sovereign class as a Battleship. (Meaning they'd probably end up in either the Heavy Frigate or Destroyer category compared to the Imperial classification system.

[DarthTex]

I guess that means "cloaking devices" or "interphasic shielding" is out of the question .

 

The only Federation fighters I have seen are from ST EU novels, and they weren't really true combat vehicles. Some of the other "factions" might have them (Romulans at one time had "carriers" and fighters, per a novel). You'd think the Klingons would love fighters, the personal glory and all that.

[Exedore]

hey guys, been lurking here for a bit and saw this little thread pop up and just had to comment

 

I remember seeing some of the battle scenes in the later seasons of Deep Space Nine with the Dominion war, many times just a few phasers would spell doom for at least smaller ships.

 

And also, Shields seem to be vital to an ST starship, even when they are at full strentgh, instrument panels and the like start shorting out and exploding, the floor has a few dead red shirts, fires are raging and smoke fills the air, yet the shields are still up o.O . So my opinion there is that without their shields any ST ship can be fatally wounded in just a few shots, like in the Dominion War scenes from DS9. far from the thick armor seen on any SW ship.

 

Point is, they can be fast and have mega-powerful torpedo weapons, but the ST ships are so dependent upon their shields that if say a turbolaser salvo brings them down, an ensuing missile salvo would spell the end for the ship most likely. Based on what ive seen at least

 

(sorry for long post!!)

[Evaders99]

Ack, another ST vs SW debate.. arg

 

I point you guys over to StarDestroyer.net's community

[skyblazer]

ST shields are like light bulbs turning on and off really fast. ST torps were most effective at punching through ST shields becuase since the shields are just flashing away at their high speeds they still wont stop an explogen that stays there for several seconds.

 

Phasers simply put are like lighting without the uber amount of volts but with the heat. As i said before about shields phasers can be made to punch right through them by using careful timing programed in by the computer. Also Phasers may lack the kind pf punch needed to rip a target to pieces but they could be used to cut up a target. Think scaple.

 

The reasons for all that smoke in the air and stuff when a ST ship is under attack is becuase generator really don't like getting pushed like that oh and like i said about the shields they don't block out everything. Armor on ST ships are still reasomaly good but don't match up anywhere near to that of SW's.

 

Also when at warp they can't turn or they can but by like 2 degree's or something as small as that.

 

Now if a ST ship went up against a ISD i would put my money on the ST ship becuase of the transporters. All they need to do is beam a torp near the reactor and boom bye bye ISD

 

About fighters: The Akiria i think it was could hold 60 fighters and was designed for rapide deployment and recover, it was also a torp boat.

[DesertFox82]

EvilleJedi I heard from Cain that you're planning on adding Star Trek to the Warlords Mod...

 

All of the SW vs ST comparisions aside, is this true?

[Exedore]

sure hope so, would be awesome to see always have wanted to pit a soverign or galaxy against an ISD

[Executioner]

I too can't wait to see if Star Trek is implemented into the Warlords mod, it would be fun to pit the two universes against eachother.

[DarthFelth]

i really hope it dosnt happen (and i doubt it will) come on, even if a Turbo laser and a phaser did the same damage how many star trek ships would get nuked by a volly of mk2 ISD's Turbo lasers.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well, that would depend on the speed and maneuverability given to the Star Trek ships. From what I've seen Star Trek ships are far faster and maneuverable than those we see in the Star Wars galaxy. It wouldbe interesting, but I think this mod would cause more problems than it's worth.