Which is the bigger screwup?

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Who do you think did better in screwing up otherwise impossible to ruin movies?

 

Lucas (Star Wars.)

The Wakowski Brothers (The Matrix.)

 

Edit by Evaders99: Subject changed

[AdmiralToguroAni]

OT=Great (except ROTJ which was really good)

TPM=Bad

AoTC=Rather Bad

ROTS=Pretty good

 

Matrix=Really good

Matrix Reloaded=Crap

Matrix Revolutions or whatever the crappy movie's name was: Horrendous

 

Scale (from best to worst):

Great, really good, pretty good, rather bad, bad, horrendous, crap.

 

Lucas has 4/6 movies that are at the very least, good, or 2/3.

 

The Wakowski Brothers had 1/3 that was good.

 

Therefore, I have to give it to the Matrix for being the worst foul up between the two.

[Skynxnex]

Personally, the Wachowski brothers are the biggest screw-ups at least in my opinion. They took a cool idea like the Matrix and somehow went off on this weird well whatever it was. I dont know how to describe Reloaded or Revolutions really.

 

As for Star Wars...well the originals which to me are Star Wars I consider those awesome..yes even ROTJ. As for the prequels...I dont put them in the same category. I know it doesnt seem logical really but I consider them to more or less sort of be its own series instead. Maybe thats how I rationalize it.

[DarthTofu]

I gotta say Lucas, even though I've never seen the other Matrix movies except for the first ones. Lucas hired the absolute worst people for Anakin in TPM, AOTC and ROTS. Though ROTS was pretty dang awesome. But honestly, didn't he notice how crappy Jake Loyd and Haden Christianson were? Christianson can sort of be justified for martial Arts skills, but in all seriousness, I don't think his tone of voice ever changes in ROTS. Then again, that is an improvement over AOTC. "No! No, mom, nO! NO!"... Good lord, that takes the cake. I really think that was Lucas's biggest error- terrible actors.

[Eko]

The Wachowski brothers only fault was that they caved to the appeal of a sequel. Some movies just aren't meant to have sequels. The original Matrix was incredible, I remember watching it years ago and just thinking 'wow'! The sequels were poorly thought out and just a money spinner. I still can;t believe that they attempted to set up more with the poor line of "Oh I dont think we've seen quite the end of Neo yet" from the Oracle in the last scene. Lucas blew what was such a great chance to make some fabulous movies, in the end I can't decide between the two, only that they both made huge errors of judgement.

[hzm]

I actually like the prequal series as much as the classic. I was raised on the classic but I grew to love the prequal trilogy. Granted, I still cring when I watch the Anakin-Padme scenes in AotC but I think it balances out with the good parts of the series.

 

And I always thought the Matrix was pointless altogether. I couldn't see why killing civilians who had been taken over by computer programs could help anyone get free. Just stay in the computer program, it's a whole lot better then your world actually is, I say. So I'll have to say the Wachowski brothers.

[Jahled]

One thing I never worked out about the Matrix was why the machines used humans as batteries given cows would yield more energy in the capacity humans were being used?

 

I appreciate Neo as a Cow would make some tricky fim making, especially when he does all that Kung Fu stuff with Jackson...

[Eko]

Prepare Jahled, to enter the Mootrix!

[Darth_Rob]

I love all 6 Star Wars movies. Sure, as being a huge fan of the expanded universe, I had things to say about the prequels. I had my fair share of complaints, but I still loved them.

 

The Matrix is a bit different. I loved the first one. It was so great, and I couldnt wait for the sequels. But when they came out, I said, "what the hell?!". They just plain sucked so bad. I mean, the sequels were sooo different than the first movie. The Wakowski Brothers really dropped the ball in my opinion.

 

And by the way, I really hated the whole underground/dance scene in Matrix Reloaded. Bigger waste of time than the pod race.

[Jahled]

Prepare Jahled, to enter the Mootrix!

 

 

*shudders*

[DarthTofu]

Okay, now that Eko went and made a preview poster for the Mootriix, he has to go make he entire movie.

[Guest JediIgor]

OT=Great (except ROTJ which was really good)

TPM=Decent

AoTC=Worse

ROTS=Unadulterated shit

Ohhh okay .

 

The difference is, the "Brothers" didn't ruin my childhood dreams and years of knowledge gained from the Expanded Universe. Lucas did.

[BadSamaritan]

The Matrix series is a perfect example of what happens when sequals go bad. The first one was perfect, and could have been left as a stand alone movie, that would have been looked upon as one of the greatest films if its time.

 

Instead, it is looked upon as the beginning of the biggest joke in movie history. A perfectly good movie, with an awesome plot idea, ruined by over use of CG, poor choice in actors for the sequals, and a story line that took so many turns and dives that you would think you were on a rollercoaster. Add in overhype, an utter lack of respect for veiwer intelligence, and the worst ending in cinema history, and what you have is the largest, steamiest pile of dung ever to be made into a movie.

[DarthTofu]

The Matrix series is a perfect example of what happens when sequals go bad. The first one was perfect, and could have been left as a stand alone movie, that would have been looked upon as one of the greatest films if its time.

 

Instead, it is looked upon as the beginning of the biggest joke in movie history. A perfectly good movie, with an awesome plot idea, ruined by over use of CG, poor choice in actors for the sequals, and a story line that took so many turns and dives that you would think you were on a rollercoaster. Add in overhype, an utter lack of respect for veiwer intelligence, and the worst ending in cinema history, and what you have is the largest, steamiest pile of dung ever to be made into a movie.

 

You know, I'm getting a very strange feeling of de ja vu after hearing those words... Almost as if there were a second trilogy to what could have been a great stand alone trilogy that followed in a very similar maner... Hmm, what could it be, I wonder?

[Skynxnex]

Well I do have to agree with Igor that Lucas did take one huge piss on the Expanded Universe and flushed it all down the toilet.

 

Seriously, after Episode 1 came out I stopped buying Star Wars books. Lucas created more inconsistencies by running off with his own ideas and totally ignoring the EU..the same EU that brought Star Wars back into the mainstream again and he pissed it all away.

 

For example, the Thrawn Trilogy. Zahn hinted that the Clone Wars was some kind of massive war where the clones went insane and attacked everyone. Instead, Lucas decided to piss on that and create his own version of the Clone Wars. Very sad really. So yeah I see Igor's point and agree.

[Trejiuvanat]

The difference is, the "Brothers" didn't ruin my childhood dreams and years of knowledge gained from the Expanded Universe. Lucas did.

 

That sums it up pretty good. Though I shouldn't say much, as I haven't even seen Revolutions and Reloaded I saw just about a month ago when it was on HBO.

[DarthTex]

Other than the movies, I don't think The Matrix has any other media outlets (i.e. books/novels) that are comparable to the SW universe. That being said, when GL starts running amok with discrepancies, it certainly has a more far reaching effect.

[Colonel_Olorin]

i honestly from what was said in the original movies about the clone wars and the fact it was called the clone wars i was expecting the clones to be the bad guys. i mean really it should of been called the confederacy wars or somethig like that what with them being the bad guys and all. or the galactic civil war. i mean really why name it after the troops of one side may aswell call it the droid wars

[DarthTex]

I agree with that, I always thought the "clones" were somehow the bad guys. Like somehow the "clones" would "replace" people something like in an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" type of thing. Oh well, so much for that idea. Thanks again GL, for great plot continuity.

[Darth_Rob]

Yeah, I also always assumed that the "Clone Wars" would have referred to a clone army attacking the Republic or something. I never would have thought that the clones were fighting for the Republic.

[DarthTofu]

Well, in the end the clones were evil, what with order sixty-six, and all. When the Republic became the Empire, it sort of makes the clones evil, though not really. Personally I find the clones becoming stormtroopers thing particularly stupid after such lines as "Close the blast doors, close the blast doors! Opent he blast doors, open the blast foors!" in which we clearly see that the stormtroopers do- not- have Coruscant accents.

[Eko]

Hmm, perhaps a new debate:

 

Were the Clones intrinsicly evil or was it just a part of their programming and therefore the bidding of someone else to which they were just a tool?

 

Huge moral and philosophical scope there...

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

In my opinion Lucas is the bigger 'cock'up (Women and children cringe and cry out in horror at the word.). He had three great movies, absolutely unruinable in every possible way (Even with the ewoks the OT was still as awesome as a Deathstar.). But leave it to Lucas to fly his fighter of absolute crap down the trench of stupid and launch a crap-cruise missile into the bungwhole of all absurdity...

 

The Wakowski brothers, well you could argue that in fact that didn't 'screw' up but instead landed an incredibly lucky hand their first time around, and continued, but lost.

 

It's almost as if Lucas went out of his way to ruin the movies just to piss on everything.

 

Lucas: Other people directed the GOOD movies so I think I will make a bunch of suck-ass movies out of spite for the good directors.

 

No wonder the directors guild booted him, he blows balls and always has...

[Skynxnex]

Hahaahahahaha. That post made me laugh and yes I agree. Despite my whining about the ewoks, they were far more tolerable than most of what the prequels had.

 

As for some of the other points people mentioned. The clones were NOT inherently evil. Your trying to blame someone/some people for something that they cannot control. The Order 66 that Palpatine issues is obviously a command that was buried in the psyche of the clones. We actually see onscreen how the clones got along with their Jedi commanders. One of them, forgot his name, even gave Obi Wan back his lightsaber. The thing is though is that from the time they were 'born' they were conditioned. Part of the conditioning as we saw was this Order 66 command. At that moment in the movie we now understand WHY they used clones. Had it have been regular conscripts they could have balked at the order. The clones though could not. They had to obey the order. Also, if the clones were 'evil' then the Jedi should have detected that. The fact they did not and fought with the clones for over 4 yrs leading them in battles and so on indicates a certain amount of trust.

 

At the end of RoTS it is clear what the Clone Wars was all about. It was nothing more than a way for Palpatine to do two things. The first one was for him to gain power legitimately. The second thing was for him to have the Jedi destroyed. He masterfully accomplished those two goals. The Clone Wars was a conflict that in the SW had not taken place in thousands of years. The sad thing is, it was so destructive YET its only purpose was a way for Palpatine to whittle down the numbers of the Jedi. With the end of the war more or less in sight that was when Palpatine issued the infamous Order 66 which eliminated MOST of the Jedi. Obviously not all Jedi were with clones or in battles at the time but it did effectively help the Emperor to get rid of the most powerful.

 

The Clone overall are actually tragic in the sense that their sole purpose in life is to fight. They were genetically engineered to obey and for them to fight to the death.

[DarthTofu]

*Sniff* you're right. I feel for the clones now! (Breaks down crying for the poor, missused clones) Seriously, though, I deffinately see your point and agree with it.