What would you want from a Starfighter simulation?

[Stellar_Magic]

I recently aquired a program called Dark Basic which enables a person with even a meager amount of programming experience to build their own large scale game. So, I've decided to start on a rather large project, a brand new Star Wars: Flight Simulation game. I'll need some help though.

 

Anyone willing to contribute models in 3DS and X? Formats will be welcome. I'm hoping that I'll be able to create a game that will have the following features...

 

A Dynamic Campaign

A Canon Damage System

A Realistic controls (Pitch and roll will no longer be reversed.)

A "Realistic" Physcis model (In Star Wars none of the space craft act correctly to space flight, we'll ignore this obvious lack of realism and go with the cannon.)

The ability to fly in both planetary atmosphere and space in a single mission.

 

So whose up for the challenge, the programming seems relatively simple for a computer game from what I've been experimenting with. Who is up for the challenge.

[Eko]

Yay! First to comment. Well for me it would be a dynamic campaign system with lots of options over the other two, but preffereably all three! I don't have much (any) experience with programing, but if you find a role for me i'd love to help out. It sounds like a great idea. It was only two days ago that I pulled my copy of Rogue Squadron 2 out of the cupboard andplayed for a while on the gamecube. I'm good at writing in prose, stories and imaginative thinking, so if you need any stuff written up, campaigns, ideas, instructions whatever. I'd just love to help in any way I can. I've just started to learn how to do 3d models after asking Mad for some tutorials so i'm unlikely to be able to help out there. Your concept seems great and I think it seems a great idea. Good luck and I hope I can contribute in some way.

[DarthTex]

Blah! Eko beat me to the first comment!

 

I don't know if I have the skill for such a feat , but I would definitely suggest "flying(?)" the previous SW space combat simulator games X-wing and/or Tie Fighter (I don't have X-wing Alliance or X-wing vs. Tie Fighter, so I can't comment on those). These games (limited as they were) were done fairly well. Each of the original games had two expansion campaigns (I believe you can find all of one set campaigns on a single CD at Amazon or ebay). This would at least be a good starting point for a new simulation. Somewhere I have the CD's, but I have to find them. I know I had a problem trying to run them on the newer operating systems (the latest versions were for Win95, way back when, even before the clone wars ). If these older simulations had updated graphics, they would be great to fly (the original "ship models" were fairly bleak when it came to details).

 

Keep posting, and if there is some meager task I'm worthy of, I'll let you know.

[BadSamaritan]

Yes, the X-Wing/TIE Fighter games are an excellent place to start. They had realistic combat, (i.e. Enemy fighters actually got behind you, and tried to stay there instead of flying in circles), and the controls were simple, yet challenging to master. Also, the dogfight simulation was exceptionally difficult, something I always loved.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Smart wingmates. I hate playing a game and your allies are always jumping in front of you, or crashing into you, or just flying into asteroids because they have nothing better to do. Especially when you are getting your ass handed to you and they are just goofing around.

 

So yeah, smart AI

[Darth_Rob]

I agree. While the enemey AI has to be sharp to provide a challenge, your allies AI has to be up there too. I hate games where you're in a combat group, but your teammates simply walk around, not reacting to the enemey.

[Stellar_Magic]

I was thinking more along the lines of a system where your wingmates not only have a more advanced AI but a system of traits, be they good or bad. You could set it up so pilot X has the nasty habit of being Impetuous in combat (Charging straight at the enemy no matter what) or of being timid in that he/she doesn't enage the enemy unless ordered to.

 

What would be really good is if we could make it so that the AI acted in wingpairs like they do in IL2 Forgotten Battles. One guy leads and the other covers. All of those things would be great, I just have to think about how to impliment them.

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

That would be nice to see Stellar. Attack patterns, great idea. Thats another put off for me in games, especially the Rogue Squadron Series. Where if you tell your wingmates to form up they stay side by side with you, and mirror you EXACTLY as you move. Which is stupid.

 

In Rogue Squadron 2 and 3 they tried to use the group attack pattern, but because the AI sucked so much it didn't work too well. It would be nice to see an improvement on it.

[Valorum_Kore]

Basically give me The X-Wing/TIE Fighter Sim with updated graphics and really good story missions and "Battles".... That would be just peachy for me...

[DarthTex]

The X-wing/Tie Fighter campaigns (while interesting) were in a "linear" format (basically one mission after the other, if you failed you had to re-fly the mission until you succeeded). I believe the Wing Commander series (which version I'm not sure) had a "somewhat" dynamic campaign, in that if you failed a mission, you took a different branch in the campaign "tree". Unfortunately, there would be several "dead ends" and then you would have to start over. Also, (unfortunately) there were several "unfinished" branches that would force you to a certain branch in the campaign (whether you liked it or not). If you're going to do a dynamic campaign, make sure you plan for all eventuallities, no matter how improbable. This complicates things quite a bit, but it allows for many interesting scenarios that make the player want to replay the game, but using different tactics just to see what happens.

[BigChimpChili]

gotta agree with darthtex on that one, i hated the linear campains of those games, but if your going to make a more dynamic system you gotta do it right, no slackin on it, otherwise it will just come out like shit.

[Stellar_Magic]

Actually I was thinking about having a Dynamic campaign more along the lines of Red Baron II and Il2 in which you fly thousands of missions in a campaign which are all generated by the computer itself.

 

Anyhow don't be looking for a download just quite yet, I'm learning how to work with this program as we speak.

[Krytos]

Ah, can I have a fourth choice? All three

[Eko]

I did have a sudden brainwave for your project:

 

Why not base it on the site's RPG - The Rapora Wars, then it would be a true community project...I haven't readmuch of it (there is quite a lot!) but I aware that it has a storylione and is diverse.

 

Alternativley you could not, its just a thought. Anyway, any jobs for me (or anyone else) yet?

 

Love the idea of the dynamic, randomly generated campaign as that would allow it to be played over and over.

 

EDIT: I have just realised that you in fact started the Rapora Wars so probably had that idea anyway.

[Skynxnex]

I just want to point out that Stellar you should set your goals here a little bit smaller and less grandiose.

 

Coding and writing a program, especially one that you are just learning can be challenging. I think that if your setting yourself up here for failure by trying to be too grand and large so to speak. You might find that as you code you cant enable something the way you want it to work and then might get frustrated.

 

Anyway, I think just for beginning that you should try to script/code something for basic flying and shooting. From there then work on trying to integrate AI into it and see if your opponents can attack. As this continues maybe try adding new models and so on.

 

The point I am trying to make is that when you start a project its often best to make your goals smaller and more attainable so you wont get discouraged. Thats all I was trying to say basically.

[Stellar_Magic]

Hey, you've got to have goals and sometimes even those huge goals are reachable. Hell I've written a novel, modded a realism mod for BF1942 (In a week!), a "realism" mod for Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast, modified Operation Flashpoint (you need to understand some C++ to do this), modified RTW to a more historic and grand mode, and have made a canon modification on my machine for both X-wing Alliance and Bridge Commander.

 

I'm also starting at the basics and working my way up. I'm 10% done with a 3d version of the classic game asteroids (Considering I've only had the program for a couple days thats good work and surprisingly easy), and I'll be moving on from there. I might get a working and complete game engine in six months to a year or more (Depending on how much time I can allot to this project, I'm awful busy.) Once I've got a working game engine getting a functioning game will be relatively easy.

[Eko]

One thing I would mention. Never, ever put the line "I've got a bad feeling about this" into your game.

 

And once again i'll offer to help in anyway I can.

 

Good luck with this it sounds like a great idea. you seem to have agreat deal of experience with this sort of thing and a good deal of drive. I think you'll do it.

[BigChimpChili]

"i've got a bad feeling about this..." post...

[Mad78]

I wouldn't mind being able to pilot at the 3rd person like in Rogue Squadron all while making it more realistic. What resolution models were you thinking of?

[Skynxnex]

Fair enough, I was just saying though that smaller goals might be better to implement first. Your the one doing the work not me so its up to you.

 

 

Anyway, much like the others have said I think that a dynamic campaign would be great. Smarter wingmen who dont go flying into your field of fire or fly into you would be nice too. 'Intelligent' enemies who dont 'cheat' would also be cool. Granted I am not sure how to implement that in the game but I dont like how in some games the AI seems to cheat.

[Colonel_Olorin]

controls like the in the oldr games where you can assign power settings across the board.

being able to assign your atromechs for things like adding randomisation to your controls for where your going in to straff that SSD.

the ability to land and re-arm instead of docking with shuttles(who else found that idea dumb?) but of course time would pass while you have a break being reloaded.

missions that don't involve going in and blowing up everything such as recon missions or smuggling missions in freighters/shuttles.

mission that involve multiple jumps so instead of just being in system a you start in a then travel to b then on to c then go to d.

this would be good for escort missions where you maye pass through 5-6 sustems fine and then suddenly get jumped or sucked out of hyper by an interdictor and that kind of thing

 

 

that's it for no but gimme some moe time to think and i'll be back

[bobandrubert]

I want damage nothinng like shoting wings off of an Xwing!

[Kareen]

Me too, i would much prefer to have realistic damage. I mean imagin doing a strafing run on the bridge of an ImpStar with no shields. You can just see the your small tiny laser bolts gauging holes into the bridge and bodies floating away. Now without a synchronising commadning presence the ship would start shooting at everything and anything, with no concentrations.

 

Or you attack the bow of the ship with a massed y-wing torpedo attack, it hits, some pierce the shield and all of a sudden chunks of its bow just float away

 

How cool would that be!!!

 

right i'm off to check out this site scenario

[Stellar_Magic]

'Intelligent' enemies who dont 'cheat' would also be cool. Granted I am not sure how to implement that in the game but I dont like how in some games the AI seems to cheat.

 

I hear you man, a sure sign of a bad AI design is when the computer has to give help to the ai, extra facilities, resources...etc. I like your wants but some of the stuff will be much more difficult then others. At the very least I could make it so that if a shot gets within 50m of a craft the fighter will jink (If its experienced...).

 

The programming tools I'm using support a maximum of about 65,000 3d objects in the game at any one time. If I make it so that each unit has about 100 objects glued together (seperate objects for different parts so that each part has a seperate collision box for realistic gameplay) the game should be able to support 600 combat units and 5,000 weapons effects at the same time... awesome! It'll also probably kill most computers at those numbers...

 

Me too, i would much prefer to have realistic damage. I mean imagin doing a strafing run on the bridge of an ImpStar with no shields. You can just see the your small tiny laser bolts gauging holes into the bridge and bodies floating away. Now without a synchronising commadning presence the ship would start shooting at everything and anything, with no concentrations.

 

Or you attack the bow of the ship with a massed y-wing torpedo attack, it hits, some pierce the shield and all of a sudden chunks of its bow just float away

 

How cool would that be!!!

 

right i'm off to check out this site scenario

 

Well, its an idea, I just think torpedoing a Nebulon B1 Frigate and watching it break in half would be cool...

[Mad78]

So any advance on the game SM?