No more Star Wars Movies...perhaps not!

[Stellar_Magic]

You would also have to consider the loss of quality in making a Star Wars TV series. It certainly wouldn't be the movies. I for one wasn't impresed with Stargate SG-1's special effects compared to the movies (the animal heads on the bad guys was too... animated and toy like for me), but I think the effects would be more pronounced ina SW TV series...

They've gotten better since their budget increased, now its almost movie like, orginally the effects stunk.

 

I agree that EU Novels on a whole don't make a good transition to a TV series, they'd be better suited to a miniseries like Dune or Taken. However if you had someone picking up on things the novelists didn't pick up on or following a completely new group of characters through the EU plotlines it could work. Imagine a Star Wars: Tigre Squadron or something.

[SOCL]

2) They would stick with the original story, but it would take a whole season to et through one book, with people saying "wait, why the hell am I watching this, it's going no where? I think there's a repeat of Friends on TBS".

That's why I believe they should try to cram (I know that sounds bad, but bear with me) an entire trilogy or so of books into one 50 epsiode series. For instance, the first four books of the X-Wing series. With 50 episodes you have enough room to keep the characters and basic storyline in tact while still having to cut out enough that it isn't simply a boring retelling of the novel stories (even one must realize that a TV show is made to be a TV show, and simply employing it to retell a story would be expensive, boring, and uncreative). So I think there should be the following 50 episode series:

 

-Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (tells the story of the capture of Coruscant and the subsequent hunt for Ysanne Isard)

-Star Wars: Wraith Squadron (time-wise, picks up after 'Rogue Squadron' with the hunt for Zsinj)

 

And so forth.

 

Also, I don't think a series with many of the main characters will work real well, simply because it would be difficult for many people to deal (and want to deal) with having a cast an older Luke (but not as old as Mark Hamill now), older Leia, and older Han. So, really, I think a Star Wars television show would prosper better from being a bunch of "side-story" series that are within the Star Wars universe, but do not include a whole bunch of main characters from the movies...but maybe that's just my take....

 

I think the only people who would watch a EU novel TV series from beginning to end are those who really enjoyed them (I would, but each episode would have to be two hours). I think there is a surprising number of Star Wars fans who are hooked on the OT and want nothing to do with the EU.

Yes, another reason why a series would never be made. I mean, let's face it, there may be a lot of EU fans out there, but not enough to spark a television hit series, much less make any profit. Unless they could make a Star Wars television show that would appeal to all audiences (including non-fans and...kids ), then it probably won't ever happen.

 

You would also have to consider the loss of quality in making a Star Wars TV series. It certainly wouldn't be the movies. I for one wasn't impresed with Stargate SG-1's special effects compared to the movies (the animal heads on the bad guys was too... animated and toy like for me), but I think the effects would be more pronounced ina SW TV series...

Agreed.

[Lord_La_forge]

In any case I think the subtitle for Episode VII will be something like: The Search for More Money, followed by Episode VIII The Search for EVEN More Money and closing the saga: Episode IX: The search for more ludicrious amounts of money.

 

This should be one of the closing qoutes of this topic.

[Jahled]

Perhaps true LF, but there is one factor no one has mentioned; George Lucus has created his entire Star Wars vision completely outside of the normal Hollywood studio system... and still is.

 

Whilst I do not want to see anything on the silverscreen even close to the expanded-universe crap I am constantly told is canon, what JediIgor muttered earlier may be some hint of things to come... but god-forbid if based on anything like the stocking-fillers like Dark-Empire, Rogue Squadron comics, or the books...that increasingly turn me off further interest in anything Star Wars... for the movies seemed to me something other than the Avengers or the Defenders conquering all, without doubt of outcome or any injury....

[Colonel_Olorin]

if they did do the x-wing series even in a 50 episode format they'd have to really nail that first scene of the first book(someone correct me if i'm wrong been a whie since i read em) where they are in the simulators. if the show started with just a massed fighter battle and then roll on from there i think you'll get people hooked even if they just looked to see what it was all about.

and besides retro sci-fi seems to be in favour at present

[SOCL]

Whilst I do not want to see anything on the silverscreen even close to the expanded-universe crap I am constantly told is canon, what JediIgor muttered earlier may be some hint of things to come... but god-forbid if based on anything like the stocking-fillers like Dark-Empire, Rogue Squadron comics, or the books...that increasingly turn me off further interest in anything Star Wars... for the movies seemed to me something other than the Avengers or the Defenders conquering all, without doubt of outcome or any injury....

Sometimes I have difficulting understanding you, Jahled, but I got it this time. That's true, though, what with Jedi throwing Star Destroyers across the galaxy in the EU.

[Jahled]

That's true, though, what with Jedi throwing Star Destroyers across the galaxy in the EU.

 

A perfect example from Darksaber of utter EU lunacy. I said this before, but it's absurd story lines like this which turn me off Star Wars, and is why I cringe when anything EU is quoted as canon. I mean who needs capital ships filled with fighter squadrons and troops when a bunch of jedi-students can throw a fleet of them into the next sector with the force? Given the Jedi are about to be wiped-out by clone troopers in Ep III (which we've seen in some spoilers), one must take all this expanded EU stuff with a sack-full of salt.

 

This is a perfect example of why the UK shouldn't be part of the European Union.

[Stellar_Magic]

This is a perfect example of why the UK shouldn't be part of the European Union.

 

 

Okay there's a reason I didn't read Darksaber...I think the only EU thats worth anything is Zahn's and Stackpole (He's hit and miss though). Anyway thats my two cents.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I really think that you have to read the EU to tell what's good and what's clearly stupid. Darksaber, the Black Fleet Crisis, Children of the Jedi, even the New Rebellion were all pretty terrible. However there rae some things that are added by the EU that help expand our vidion of the Star Wars universe (I, Jedi was an excellent book).

 

I personally enjoyed most of the EU, yet I find the prequal novels to be boring and rather un-inventive. It's those particularly terrible novels that truin the EU for people...

[Trejiuvanat]

Okay there's a reason I didn't read Darksaber...

 

I had to reread some parts of it lately. (Reloaded business) It was as bas as I remember, once I had acomplished what I was looking for I rapidly put it back where it belonged. Next to other Shamed Ones such as Children of the Jedi, Crystal Star, Black Fleet Crisis and Truce at Bakura.

 

I think the only EU thats worth anything is Zahn's and Stackpole (He's hit and miss though). Anyway thats my two cents.

 

I'd add Allston to the list. And Jim Luceno who is even more random than Stackpole. Though Zahn's books have declined, in his attempt to create a sub saga to Star Wars with his own characters, he kinda loses himself among them.

[Krytos]

Darksaber seemed to be one of those novels that had no point - if you read it or didn't it, it doesn't effect anything major in Star Wars (except the death of a particular character in a very boring fasion).

 

What I didn't like about it was the inconsistancy with canon Star Wars material. Such as the Dark Saber itself, Ackbar's micro fleet standing againts Daala's (I think it was Daala ?) Super Star Destroyer and all those Victory SDs.

 

Other than that, I didn't bother reading Truce at Bak (heard bad things), didn't even consider the Children of the Jedi, I started reading Crystal Star . . . and that's all I did with it.

 

I actually liked the Black Fleet Crisis, though it could have done with some better writing and a more original story line. Other than that I thought it was good - but that's just me

Edited March 23, 2005 by Krytos

[Trejiuvanat]

Darksaber seemed to be one of those novels that had no point - if you read it or didn't it, it doesn't effect anything major in Star Wars (except the death of a particular character in a very boring fasion)

 

Exactly. Darksaber has so little to do with the overall In-Universe Story as my dinner for tonight has to do with the development of Earth's politics.

 

I actually liked the Black Fleet Crisis, though it could have done with some better writing to life it and a more original story line. Other than that I thought it was pretty good - but that's just me

 

If you took out all that Luke searching for his mother part and Lando and Co running after that nonsense Vagabond ship it might have been better. But books with Non-Imperial villians (except NJO's Vong) don't have the same thrill as the books with Imperial villians do. We have to admit that Daala and her antics are better than all the Corellian Madness or the Reptilian Ssi-Ruuk or Hethrir...

[SOCL]

You see, I really am not very interested with the Jedi and the Force and all that other nonesense the EU has exploded around, but mostly the good vs. evil idea of the Classic trilogy. So Darksaber seemed like an unlikely novel for me to read, but as it turns out, it was what really got me into reading Star Wars novels after having vowed like many to never ruin it. As a matter of fact, it was Pellaeon's insistant allusions to Thrawn that made me read Timothy Zahn's original novels. And, in looking back, though I hated the stupidity behind a group of student-Jedi-trainees launching Star Destroyers through space at the price of only one student (they should have all died, but then again, I hold no love for the Jedi ), I rather enjoyed watching Daala kill-off all the warlords and unite them. Before and after that...nothing. I mean, I also liked the part where Daala hands the Empire over to Pellaeon (something long in coming, in my opinion), I really hated watching Daala--an Imperial ADMIRAL--fail again. It was like watching Saturday morning cartoons where the villian returns and the narrator says, "Oh, no, the bad guys back! Let's see what kind of crazy mishaps and adventures our heroes get into again!" I mean, it was almost as though Daala is this bad guy who keeps coming back despite being "dead" just cause more havoc that will put everyone into a panic (despite the fact either the Jedi can wave their hands and end the mess). I'm actually surprised people on Coruscant don't turn to each other and laugh, saying, "Oh, please, the Empire?! We've never lost! They're not even worth taking seriously! We've got better things to do than play with babies!" One thing I will give Darksaber, it is very well written, a vast improvement over the Jedi Academy trilogy (also by Kevin J. Anderson).

 

As far as the comment concerning Zahn's own saga within Star Wars, as Trej has mentioned (I've started hearing this around TheForce.Net as well, though I try to stay away from there...), I don't particularly agree. I think what has happened is that Zahn created secondary characters that have caught the imagination and attention of the fans SO strongly that LucasFilm is forcing him--and the other authors--to use and expand on this. Again, this goes back to what I was saying in a different thread (the Episode III teaser trailer thread...a link please?) that the authors are, now, basically being given the outlined and then told to fill in the gaps and piece it all together. Really, the only reason I think it feels as though Zahn is making his own Star Wars is because that is what he is more-or-less being forced to do. I mean, Thrawn wasn't meant to be nearly as popular as he became, yet LucasFilm managed to have Zahn bring back that particular persona in the Hand of Thrawn duology. The profit potential from the fans is there, and a name like Timothy Zahn simply makes best sellers. I mean, really, when Thrawn made the off-hand comment in Heir to the Empire about the Outbound Flight, I very much doubt he meant for Obi-Wan and Anakin to be involved, much less having it be a bunch of Dreadnaughts and everything else is has become. I'm sure he wanted it to remain jsut as mystical and mysterious as the Clone Wars were to all of us before the prequels came out--just another part of the galaxy's VAST history. I would have liked to have not seen the Outbound Flight fleshed out because you lose that mystery--just like the Clone Wars--but on the other hand, I--like many of you--are curious to see and read it. Now, answer this, would you prefer to have Timothy Zahn write the story of the Outbound Flight Project or have another Darksaber/Truce of Bakura?

 

But perhaps I'm a little to zealous when it comes to Timothy Zahn....

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well, I've read some of Zahn's non-Star Wars books, and I must say that he is very versatile. I'll read any book he writes simply because if any one can pull a good pook out of a pile of crap called a plot, he can do it...

[Skynxnex]

I am sorry but Darksaber to me was horrible. Kevin J Anderson made it seem like the battles between Star Destroyers and Victories was like ants attacking an elephant. He has no grasp at all of what he was writing. And then he had Daala be stupid and take a SSD and lose it near Yavin. I hated that novel. Most of the EU in my opinion is just horrible. I liked Zahn's novels and my only complaint with his novels is he is a minimalist and makes a galactic organization like the Empire and New Republic think that 200 dreadnoughts are really all that important....*shakes head*

[BadSamaritan]

Considering the limited resources Thrawn was given to work with, 200 dreadnaughts that need such a small crew would be a major break for either side. And considering the fact that neither side had an exceptionally huge fleet (despite what people think after reading the NJO series), it makes 200 dreadnaughts even more important.

 

As for the EU as a whole, some book we could have done without. Most of them having to do with Luke and/or Jedi. That stupid book where he was chasing down Callista, and the book with Hethrir in it are two prime examples. I actually thouth the black fleet crisis was a good series, but it could have donewithout the whole 'Luke looking for mommy' bit. Granted, the Teljkon Vegabond did seem to be filler, but it gave us something else to be interested in.

 

As for the 'books without imperial villians are boring' arguement, which I have read on many websites, I think that having a few non-imperial villians is a good thing. It shows that there are more threats out there than the empire, and that not everyone joined one side or the other. People seem to forget about the Hapan Empire and the Corperate sector occasionally, even though they do play major roles in the galaxy, albight usually in the backround.

[SOCL]

As for the 'books without imperial villians are boring' arguement, which I have read on many websites, I think that having a few non-imperial villians is a good thing. It shows that there are more threats out there than the empire, and that not everyone joined one side or the other. People seem to forget about the Hapan Empire and the Corperate sector occasionally, even though they do play major roles in the galaxy, albight usually in the backround.

I agree 100%. I'm truly glad the Empire-Rebellion/Republic conflict ended--peacefully at that!--because the Empire was beginning to become a bunch of idiotic attmepts to take over the galaxy. I mean, it was like every week we got a new bad guy--much like PowerRangers!--and every week Luke and his super-student-Jedi, along with some help from a few old friends, would have to battle it out. Additionally, the Empire seemed to think that by taking one world at the expense of ALL their resources would ultimately win the galaxy! C'mon, Daala through EVERYTHING she had against the damned Jedi Academy! Isard through EVERYTHING she had against the Rogues! What sort of idiot commanders are these?! Daala could have consolidated all those resources she was given in the wake of the warlords' deaths and waited a few years, then bombarded the shit out of Courscant and got away with it!!! The Vong just showed that there is much more out there than the weekly-villian versus the Super Friends.

[BadSamaritan]

Actually, Daala realised that she couldnt win the war with just a few battles. What she was trying to accomplish was a massive psychological strike at the heart of the republic, hence the reason she leveled Khomm, that one artsy-fartsy world, and then launched an attack at the Jedi Acedemy. If she had succeeded, the Republic would have been in shock. Follow that up by spreading out her forces and smashing a few shipyards, and her forces would have presented a very real threat once again, as limited as they were. But sadly, her attempts were ended with a patheticly ubsurd loss over Yavin.

[Mad78]

I found Truce at Bakura wasn't that aweful even if it doesn't compare to a Zahn or a Stackpole book. Black fleet crisis wasd also okay.

Darksaber, the children of the jedi and crystal star were a total waste of money for me.

[SOCL]

Actually, Daala realised that she couldnt win the war with just a few battles. What she was trying to accomplish was a massive psychological strike at the heart of the republic, hence the reason she leveled Khomm, that one artsy-fartsy world, and then launched an attack at the Jedi Acedemy. If she had succeeded, the Republic would have been in shock. Follow that up by spreading out her forces and smashing a few shipyards, and her forces would have presented a very real threat once again, as limited as they were. But sadly, her attempts were ended with a patheticly ubsurd loss over Yavin.

This is the same Daala who had three Star Destroyers when she left the Maw Installation and miraculously managed to lose one at Mon Calamari to an unarmed Mon Cal cruiser. Daala proved throughout the series she had no sense of strategy, additionally, though, she was delt some pretty bad hands. Now, as far as being given huge fleets and an SSD...well...she could have handled that far differently. Yes, attacking and destroying the Jedi Academy at Yavin 4 would have left the Republic shocked, but it was in no way a military-significant target. All she would have done was waste resources attacking the Academy and, if successful, gone to fight the Republic fleet with less resources than with which she began. Like I said, she could have brought her entire fleet together, attacked Sluis Van or Coruscant, then faded away before reinforcements could arrive, gone back to the Deep Core, reconsolidated forces, and continued striking. No, instead she fanatically goes against the Jedi...but then again, fate had it out for Daala. I mean, who could have guessed a single exploding TIE Bomber in the SSD's hangar could have blown the entire ship? You'd think they'd put save-guards in place to prevent against accidental explosions, but....

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well, we can't blame it all on Daala... ok, we can, but she really wasn't deserving of her rank. She was only promoted to Admiral because Tarkin though she was deserving, and for other reasons (even a Grand Moff can only take soo much "pillow talk" before getting the urge to promote her the hell away from him ). I like to think that her skills weren't up to the level her rank would suggest. Sure, she could beat all of the other officers when she was in training, but we've seen some of the officers in the Empire, and there were alot who were duds. She probably was stuck in with the class with cousines of Fleet Admirals, wealthy merchant's sons, and officers destined for the Outer Rim

[Paul]

I believe Daala had potential but was written poorly. She had skills but being out of touch for years had taken its toll. I use her as one of my main characters(of course anyone who knows me realizes that I prefer to use females!). After Vader and Tarkin she is my third favorite character. You can knock her if you wish, but remember she was written to be stupid because "the rebels MUST win".-Grand Moff Conway

[Jahled]

Which quite accurately demonstrates why I personnaly view the EU as absolute crap. In the sorry tale, Darksaber, I was led to believe Daala 'removed,' feuding-Imperials and combined a rather dramaticly-composed fleet (on screen); subsequent events over Yavin just enforce how stupid the EU has become. To think, from the spoilers i've seen of EP III it isn't just Anakin on the rampage taking out the Jedi, but Clone troopers ***cough***stormtroopers***cough*** piecemeal; as the Prime minister of Kimino states, 'they are far more effective than droids.'

 

So Paelleon's fleet hurled through space. Darksaber led me to believe he had enough Star Destoyers and Victorys to reduce Yavin to molten-slag, and enough troops to conqueror a few student-Jedi...

 

But as per-normal in the EU something truely stupid is written and 'our heros overcome all.' In this reality, Daala would just shrug her sholders and become a waitress. Nothing much else more ridiculous she would logically do with legions of cloned-soldiers at her command.

 

Forgive me. I will quote Darksaber as long as anything other than the movies are quoted as canon. For the EU is barely more than than some rather childish adventure of the Power Rangers to me.

 

My own opinion of course.

[Mad78]

who could have guessed a single exploding TIE Bomber in the SSD's hangar could have blown the entire ship?

In which book was this?

[Krytos]

who could have guessed a single exploding TIE Bomber in the SSD's hangar could have blown the entire ship?

In which book was this?

 

Darksaber

 

 

I agree with Conway, there were to many "rebels must win" books (And I'm a Rebel or New Republic man ) and she was constanlty written poorly. The irony is that she is always mentioned in the novels as a great stategist, yet theyt never make her one. The closest was when Daala attacked Mon Calamari, yet that was with one of Tarkin's strategies and was easily foiled by Ackbar.

Which brings us to a second point, writers who don't know enough about the Star Wars characters and ships. In the same novel where Mon Cal is attacked by Daala (I forget which novel), it says something like a single squadron of B-Wings held off at least one ISD. Or in Destiny's Way, a good novel, where the New Republic forces late in the fight against the Vong are said to be using mostly Rebel era ships - like MC80s. The only new vessels were those that had been frequently mentioned, such as the Ralroost. Now to further strengthen an arguement that needs no more strengthening, the aurthor admitted in an interview that he only had old resources and had he had uptodate specs etc. he would have used them.

To the point, there's a simple lack of continuity in the EU community. The X-Wing series was the first EU series to keep continuity between novels as well as with the rest of the SW universe (albeit, there were a few fubars there as well), though that was between only two authors. the NJO series seemed to me like a project to rectify this - and for the most, it worked.

Now, before you get any misconception, I'm a big fan of the EU. Though, like others (I think it was Trej who brought up this point), I'd like to see the novels reflect the original trillogy in the writing style focused on a few main characters rather than the very large scale and broad focus as of late.