"Can ‘Star Wars: Episode III’ be saved?"

[Jahled]

I'm still waiting (hoping?) for the Jedi to defeat an evil-race of warriors in these clone wars in RotS, as was vaguely/briefly stated in the book of the ESB as Boba Fett is introduced...

 

...perhaps there was a spelling mistake* and it should have read: 'wearing the armour of an evil warrior defeated by the Jedi in the Clone Wars.'

 

EDITiness:

I must disagree with Jahled to some extent, ESB is the favorite Star Wars movie for most fans, because it is the darkest of them all. But it was dark because of the plot, not because of massacres and big space battles

 

It didn't actually imply it was dark purely for those reasons dude! I think one could more or less say that it is 'dark' for the reasons the entire film is one long chase for most of the characters from the Empire, and certainly the maturist in content of any of the films to date. Err..sort of thing..

 

 

 

 

 

 

*With the grace of hindsight

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

I stand by what I said originally, if you haven't read it, it's on page 4... I think... Well it's somewhere, and frankly I find my solution for saving Ep3 to be the best (if only) one yet...

[Guest Scathane]

I stand by what I said originally, if you haven't read it, it's on page 4... I think... Well it's somewhere, and frankly I find my solution for saving Ep3 to be the best (if only) one yet...

I must say that I, for one, don't feel that your solution (as you so eloquently put it, is good at all... Moreover, I had quite some trouble reading it, so I'll BEAk along several elements of it...

 

I know how Episode III can be saved! The most important thing for Lucas to do is to kill JAR JAR. In a painful and slow way that lasts for ten minutes or so.

Although I agree that killing off Jar Jar (BEAK 1) is a great idea, I hardly see how a creature so utterly stupid can be the most important thing GL has to change...

 

After that, he needs to have all the wookies kicking the shit out of the gungan army.

And which unexpected twist of plot would have the Wookiees (BEAK 2) credibly finish the Gungan army? (BEAK 3)

 

Then when thats all said and done, BANG, out of no where a bunch of stardestroyers blow up naboo, with padme on it (Luke and Leia just barely escape on a lambada shuttle.)

Star Destroyers (BEAK 4) out of nowhere, heh? A Deus Ex Machina is hardly a lifesaver when it comes to thickening plot. Furthermore, why would Padme (BEAK 5) have to be killed on Naboo (BEAK 6)? I mean, what purpose would it serve? And..., er..., about that Lambada shuttle... is this actually an attempt at humor?

 

Then they need to have Vadar just doing what he does best. Ass kicking! First pick off the sissy Jedi counsel members (Plow Koone, the big headed guy. All the others.) all at the same time. Like have him throwing lightning and objects at them, while slicing em to bits. Next have a short battle sequence between him and Mace. Have a dramatic death (like just before vadar kills mace the whole scene cuts to TPM scene when maul kills qui-gon) and then it shows Obi-wan screaming in rage again. The two duke it out, vadar gets knocked into a pit of acid, and then the movie ends with Obi-wan reading a copy of "The Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy" which shows a page of how accomadating Tatooine can be.

Now, this is where it gets quite messy, but I'll attempt to keep it lucid...

 

You think that what Vader (BEAK 7) does best is ass kicking?! I'll admit it's one of the things he does best, but not the best thing per se... What about fixing and designing stuff? What about being a brilliant strategic mind and tactician? What about scheming, liaisoning and plotting? Surely, you cannot have forgotten those?

 

Picking off Jedi Council (BEAK members? Now why would he have to do them all single handedly? In that case, we probably wouldn't get to see Grievous in action... Oh, and BTW, it's Plo Koon (BEAK 9).

 

I furthermore don't see why Vader (BEAK 10) should kill Mace (BEAK 11), and neither do I see why Qui-Gon (BEAK 12) and Maul (BEAK 13) should appear in Ep. III...

 

Lastly, why should Obi-Wan (BEAK 14) knock Vader (BEAK 15) in a pit of acid?! I feel more for the original version of Obi-Wan knocking Anakin in a pit of molten lava (and I won't even consider this BEAKworthy)...

 

Oh, I almost forgot... Why would you want to have "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (BEAK 16) in Ep. III?! And, even if you wanted it in there, why should it be read by Obi-Wan?! (BEAK 17)... I end this, then, bys posing the question of whether the Guide would list Tatooine as accommodating... (BEAK 18)...

 

 

P.S. - If the entire post was an attempt at humor..., I'd rather have Jar Jar as an attempt at the same in any SW movie, feeble though that may be...

[Aenivae_Ikeda]

Wow... Someone missed all of the sarcasm in that...

[Trejiuvanat]

And..., er..., about that Lambada shuttle...

 

The Lambada Shuttle is what Vader, Palpy and Tarkin take when going to Río de Janeiro. Vader even changes his black suit for something brighter and happier, while Palpy uses his summer cloak and has Tarkin help him apply his Baby Lotion Sunblock Level 256 (For Dark Side users).

 

Ikeda, he didn't miss the sarcasm he simply was being even more sarcastic, and even more BEAKy.

[kazooki]

Judge Yoda by his size do you? And so you should not, as his ally is the force ! What's a pillar to the force? Screw the diversion, yoda had a guy trying to kill him and others, plant that pillar on him, and end of problems.

 

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack". Throwing a pillar at some one isn't really defence when they're running away (it's O.K. to push battle droids with the force, because they are attacking).

 

no but he wasn't exactly han solo either was he.

 

Actually, there have been some studies done that show many older women prefer younger men. There must have been something about him she liked that allowed her to see past the cry-baby attitude (also, remember that we only see a fraction of events in the movies. There's pleanty of boring stuff we don't see).

 

Lucas felt he had to do alot of things, and he didn't need to throw r2d2 in there. He was just trying to make way too many links which was completely uneccessary.

 

Jango should not have been in the same league as a Jedi, case closed.

 

Yes, too many links... he should have left Obi-Wan out, I mean, he was in the original three, having him in these three is too big of a link... oh, and Yoda, why did he have to be in there? And Palpatine! He already played a pivotal role in RotJ! You know what, if he was really smart, he would have just changed the whole Star Wars galaxy, that way we'd have something completely fresh! [/sarcasm]

 

Really, R2 being in the first (Ep. I-III) makes perfect sence. In ANH we hear that R2 says he once belonged to Obi-Wan. His role in the new trilogy solidifies this link. Furthermore, links back to the original trilogy prevents the "Old School" fans from feeling lost in the new story line. Familiar faces (or in this case, domes) makes them feel more comfortable.

 

Not all Jedi are as powerful as Mace Windu, Obi-Wan or Yoda. Some (many) of them were mediocre. There was also that scene where that crazy guy with the purple glowing sword sort of decapitated Jango...

 

Probably because I kept having to go throw up at how sick the movie was making me. All I remember seeing was a bunch of wookies running the republic. How about the space pod racer commentators, wasn't that cool lol. Et arguing with himself. Pleeeaaassse.

 

Well, I suggest you take another look (I suggest you use the Scene Selection menue as you clearly suffer from motion sickness or epilepsy). You'll see that there are more species than you could shake a stick at (and some you woulnd't want to shake a stick at for fear of angering/accidently offering to mate with them).

 

I thought the race announcer was an original character... but perhaps you'd prefer Domo and Pikachu reenacting a scene fromClockwork Orange, just to spice things up?

 

Lucas didn't need to target kids. If he targeted those whom he should have, been a lil mature, the kids would have loved it, the same as we once did..............

 

So you're complaining that the new movies (save RotS) were targeting the same group of viewers as the original trilogy? What, were yu expecting softcore porn mixed with The Godfather's violence? I'd say a Sith Lord getting sliced in half, and a massive clone battle is violent enough for a Star Wars movie.

 

No, I did not purchase aotc because i didn't like the movie at all. It was again, compeltely far fetched and ridiculous. I would never be able to tell my recent g/f, hey sweety, wasn't aotc an awesome movie ! But I do not like the name, it's kindof a rip off of that old novel and it could have had a lil bit more thought put into it, like his 2 bit movies.

 

Who woulda thunk that a Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie would be far fetched and ridiculous?

 

I respect that you didn't like the movie, but I get the impression that you were expecting to see the same-old, same-old, hoping to re-live the "glory days" of the original trilogy. If so, you went to the wrong movies (maybe switch over to Star Trek, they're all pretty much the same).

 

The title is no more/less creative than any of the others: A new Hope. Wow, I wonder if this movie has a happy ending? The Empire Strikes Back: huh, I bet some one will get attacked in this one. Return of the Jedi: I've got ten bucks that says Luke wins and completes his training. All of the titles describe what happens in the movie. Attack of the Clones is no different.

 

This info written above me is just in poor judgement. Obviouslyou must be a 35 year old father of 2 that laughs at the efforst of Jar Jar, admire's little orphan annie, and likes to see an excessive amount of immature and far fetched ideas, even for a science fiction.

 

Hey, how about we add in Jar jar binks's brother for the next one Grand admiral.......

 

More to follow, lunch first, then I will gladly respond to your immature minded posts.

[kazooki]

Listen Grand, I can't be bothered quoting again...too time stressful, however, let me make my point in response to what your thoughts were.

 

The new star wars movies have been a joke. This has been stressed by all asides from serious yuppies. It has cause myself and friends, to just give up on the movies.....they have been forever tainted, and I will, along with others, never look at the movies in the same view as I looked in the original films.

 

Given the fact that it's well known that these movies have been just poorly done, the defense you present, defending these movies and somehow trying to paint a picture that these movies weren't that bad is contrary to how I feel, all my friends feel, and how generally everyone would feel about these movies. They are just bad pieces of film. You want to defend t hem fine, I'm not going to bash you for liking these movies, to each his own. What I wanted to say using examples earlier, was that these movies are jokes. Lucas targeted kids.....KIDS. There is no reason for a 28 year old guy like myself to go see them. I would have to be paid to sit through these 2 movies ever again.

 

A coincidence here and there is fine...lucas tried to ram them down my throat and I didn't like it.....other didn't like it...hence the movies ratings.

 

Don't know how you can defend the romance between Annie and Padme. I'm 28, I don't want to see, don't care to see puppy love..... It was a bad idea imo, which is shared by all my friends, and so many people I chit chat with on line. Nobody cares about them man, lucas blew it by making his movies around kids. Everything was goofy or immature, and again, I point to what the general people thought of the movies....poor. It's made fun of anytime it's brought up...Jar Jar binks, Boss Nass, Little orphan annie....blah blah blah....they make fun of it for a reason you know......

 

Don't throw quotes that are in contradiction of what jedi have always done. Kill evil. Now according to you jedis cannot kill? Sorry, if a guys trying to kill me, I sure am not going to use the force to pick up a pillar to try and scare him away....i think I'll just land it on him....mace didn't have a problem slicing someone's head off......how many has obi wan killed? What about luke laying the smack down in and outside of jabbas palace?

 

The movies sucked bad man....I'm sorry you and others like lucas don't think so. I view them as a betrayal for starters, as he made the movies for 10 year olds and under when guys like us made him rich. I'm 28 not 10 ! The films were immature, far fetched disney productions.

 

I know science fiction is not real, but what makes a film great is a way to capture the audience.....as if the people can relate and really get into the movie. Throwing in Jar Jar binks etc in these poorly done films compared to say Event Horizon.....or anything that isn't a kids production is non comparable. I would not be able to get into a movie like star wars and jar jar, but I could get into event horizon as one doesn't come across as a joke, the other does......realism is what really captures people in movies...just look at braveheart. They didn't have to have all the detailed violence in it, but they did....wonder why? Realism. Other science fiction films can capture the audience with realism despite being make belief.

 

Fett kicked jedi but. That was stupid I think. don't tell me that Jedi were mediocre, as I don't iknow where you get your info from, ,but all jedi do is train...there is no "mediocre" jedi. I've read hundreds of comics, books and other resources on star wars.....trust me...they aren't mediocre.

 

I don't know what else to say. NO disrespect to you personally, but your views are exactly the kind of thinking that ruins movies like this. By you calling star wars violent is a joke. Maybe to my librarian or a left extremist liberal but it was not in the least what I would call violent. Slicing robots isn't what I would call gruesome. Again, you supporting the things that made myself and others turn away from is giving support to these jokes of films that lucas has made.

 

To sum this up...the movies are just way too immature for me. I'm sorry, but they are and everyone with common logic knows it.

 

Oh ya, that ET announcer from the pod races was retarded at best. Come on, the guy was arguing with himself, and was only thrown in to make little kids laugh, or adults that are weird laugh.

 

Lucas said in a special commentary before the films released that he made them for his kids. He could care less about what you or I think, but he wanted to give something to his kids. I rest my case...these movies are for kids....and I don't mean highschool kids. I'm talking elementary.

 

I'm glad you liked them though Grand......

[Trejiuvanat]

Given the fact that it's well known that these movies have been just poorly done, the defense you present, defending these movies and somehow trying to paint a picture that these movies weren't that bad is contrary to how I feel, all my friends feel, and how generally everyone would feel about these movies. They are just bad pieces of film. You want to defend t hem fine, I'm not going to bash you for liking these movies, to each his own. What I wanted to say using examples earlier, was that these movies are jokes. Lucas targeted kids.....KIDS. There is no reason for a 28 year old guy like myself to go see them. I would have to be paid to sit through these 2 movies ever again.

 

I don't think GAT was defeding the movies, he was simply being objective. There are lots of passionate arguments against the prequels saying as much as: Kill Jar-Jar in a cruel manner to make them better. Something which is completely absurd.

 

Either way the original Star Wars was also targeted it at kids, for the kids of the 70s of course. He has said repatedly that he 'based' Star Wars on the matinees he watched and enjoyed as a child, and on the adeventures of Flash Gordon. (I'm talking story-wise here, we all know cinematographically he inspired himself greatly on Kurosawa).

 

Think back to when you first saw Star Wars, you were probably two or three when SW premiered, so you probably didn't see it then, but you first definitely saw it as a child, and began to like it as a child. Most fans saw the movies when they were children and grew up with them.

 

A coincidence here and there is fine...lucas tried to ram them down my throat and I didn't like it.....other didn't like it...hence the movies ratings.

 

Coincidences in what sense? If you mean the plot I can agree with your dislike, the prequels have brought for nothing original and follow more or less a similar formula with the original movies. If you mean characters, I think Lucas should have build SW around the older chars from the OT. (Palpy, Vader, Tarkin, Motti, Chewie, Dodonna, Mothma and Organa and Threepio and Artoo). I admit having Anakin build Threepio is too farfetched too my taste and was another turndown in the long list of disappointments in the prequels.

 

Don't know how you can defend the romance between Annie and Padme. I'm 28, I don't want to see, don't care to see puppy love..... It was a bad idea imo, which is shared by all my friends, and so many people I chit chat with on line. Nobody cares about them man, lucas blew it by making his movies around kids. Everything was goofy or immature, and again, I point to what the general people thought of the movies....poor. It's made fun of anytime it's brought up...Jar Jar binks, Boss Nass, Little orphan annie....blah blah blah....they make fun of it for a reason you know......

 

As I said before SW movies were always targeted at kids, that was part of the reasons it became such a hit. What the prequels lack is good writers and good directing, story wise the story isn't bad (even if the policial backset is a bit light for my taste) if you have to fill a 2-hour-movie with stupid jokes it's because you couldn't find a good writer to fill those gaps with plot development (Personally I think that EI and eII could have been merged). The love affair between a Jedi and a Senator could have been made better, with better writing, directing or acting and even a plot twist here and there. I hate the way it's portrayed too, and I often make fun of the lines used in the movie because they're stupid.

 

Don't throw quotes that are in contradiction of what jedi have always done. Kill evil. Now according to you jedis cannot kill? Sorry, if a guys trying to kill me, I sure am not going to use the force to pick up a pillar to try and scare him away....i think I'll just land it on him....mace didn't have a problem slicing someone's head off......how many has obi wan killed? What about luke laying the smack down in and outside of jabbas palace?

 

You'll see the materialization of your argument occur in Episode III and that will be the cause of Anakin's ultimate downfall.

 

I have always disagreed with Yoda's fight scene. That's something that should never have happened because that destroys Yoda's OT characterization. 'War does not make one great'. On Geonosis Yoda's priority was to save Obi-Wan and Anakin, not land a pillar on Dooku.

 

The Jedi aren't an elite commando unit with the purpose of destroying evil, they are a spiritual order. The power that makes them so special flows from life, so killing a being is 'diminishing' them. Using their gifts to kill other more effectvely would contradict their beliefs.

 

If you look at the movies, none of the Jedi has used the Force to kill any one. You ask about Ben, how many people has Obi-Wan killed on film? Only Darth Maul. Even in ANH he spared tha Aqualish's life, even if he had threatened to kill Luke which was the only reason Obi-Wan still needed to live.

 

The movies sucked bad man....I'm sorry you and others like lucas don't think so. I view them as a betrayal for starters, as he made the movies for 10 year olds and under when guys like us made him rich. I'm 28 not 10 ! The films were immature, far fetched disney productions.

 

I know science fiction is not real, but what makes a film great is a way to capture the audience.....as if the people can relate and really get into the movie. Throwing in Jar Jar binks etc in these poorly done films compared to say Event Horizon.....or anything that isn't a kids production is non comparable. I would not be able to get into a movie like star wars and jar jar, but I could get into event horizon as one doesn't come across as a joke, the other does......realism is what really captures people in movies...just look at braveheart. They didn't have to have all the detailed violence in it, but they did....wonder why? Realism. Other science fiction films can capture the audience with realism despite being make belief.

 

I think everyone around here knows they sucked. They sucked because of the poor writing and acting and directing. And you made him rich when you were ten or five or whatever you were when you first watched them. We are making him rich by making SW such an important part of our lives to actually argue about it on the Internet.

 

I agree with you that they failed to match the OT, that they lacked the realism, the strength of other movies. But it's a symptom of time, excepting LOTR there has not been any great movies in the past years. There have been grand productions and intelligent movies, but nothing really great. None of the movies I've seen will ever become classics of movie history. If compared to other movies of this time I'd even dare say Prequel SW is above the average.

 

Fett kicked jedi but. That was stupid I think. don't tell me that Jedi were mediocre, as I don't iknow where you get your info from, ,but all jedi do is train...there is no "mediocre" jedi. I've read hundreds of comics, books and other resources on star wars.....trust me...they aren't mediocre.

 

They aren't mediocre but they aren't entirely devoted to fighting. Did you expect Mace to come from Coruscant with a massive Jedi Army that happened to be there? Most Jedi Mace could have gathered were probably counselors, ambassadors, mediators. I doubt they are able to put up a good fight.

 

I don't know what else to say. NO disrespect to you personally, but your views are exactly the kind of thinking that ruins movies like this. By you calling star wars violent is a joke. Maybe to my librarian or a left extremist liberal but it was not in the least what I would call violent. Slicing robots isn't what I would call gruesome. Again, you supporting the things that made myself and others turn away from is giving support to these jokes of films that lucas has made.

 

I think they are quite violent. Even the name suggest something bellicous, we have droid armies programmed to kill, we have clones bred to kill, we have Jedi who have become generals and soldiers and we have at least one chopped limb per movie. Violence doesn't mean to have explicit gruesome killing scenes in the movies, it's the mental image they create, the feeling it leaves behind. A scene filled with lasers on all direction and dozens of [insert cannonmeat here]'s bodies on the floor dead is defeinitely aggressive and violent. Personally adding unneeded violence would definitely make the film more childish, as it's the same as adding Jar Jar's jokes [we don't have any good plot device and must fill this scene with the massacre of droids, soldiers, etc because that's what kids [or weird adults] want to see anyway].

 

Oh ya, that ET announcer from the pod races was retarded at best. Come on, the guy was arguing with himself, and was only thrown in to make little kids laugh, or adults that are weird laugh.

 

I didn't like him, nor did I like Ewoks or Salacious Crumb or Boba Fett, to me they are all 'retarded at best'. They were all thrown in to appeal to some particular public sector. IMHO, SW could have done without either of them.

 

Finally, I want to say that I don't like the prequels. I found them too 'light', they don't deepen things were they should; they are too shallow and immature. They are badly written, and succumb to the pressure of having a story, to which everyone already knows it's ending, and to keep up with the originals. Both factor definitely limit the story telling part of it and Lucas is too old. If he only directed one movie in the 70s. He definitely shouldn't have directed three in the last decade.

 

But they aren't the worst thing to happen to Star Wars (Ewoks movies and a Holiday special definitely top that list). If you don't like them do as I do and don't watch them. I haven't seen TPM since 00, and AOTC since I saw it in theaters. If ROTS is as bad as I fear it can be then I'll watch and that's it if not (and I hope it's not bad) then it'll find a place into my DVD collection.

 

As someone(Jahled?) else said in another thread Star Wars exists only in your mind where you can take out all that stuff you don't like and replace it with your own. (The Magic of Imagination).

 

And before you start speculating about my age I'll tell you I'm 19.

[Guest Scathane]

Well said Trej! I must say I agree with a lot of what Trej said. I feel the main problems with the prequels are:

 

1. The prequels aren't as innovative as the OT
2. We rely too heavily on our own concepts of OT stuff
3. The plot isn't dished out properly
4. Their place in the SW-timeline
5. Growing up

First of all, the fun about the OT was that it was completely innovative. Nothing like it had ever been done before, especially in the SFX-field. The problem with the prequels is that we have gotten used to some darn good movies in the SFX-field: Jurassic Park, The Abyss, Final Fantasy; just to name a few. When GL told SFX companies he wanted to have actual space battles in the first SW movie, they virtually declared him insane: it was impossible, they said. So, the SFX in the prequels doesn't tend to impress us as much as it did in the OT.

 

Secondly, since there is a large time gap between the OT and the prequels, we all have had plenty of time to build our own SW Universe, whether by novels or by heart. Somehow, we felt that the way we saw the SW Universe was the right and, more importantly, the only one. We forgot that GL had his own ideas for the story.

 

Thirdly, I must also admit that I feel the prequels seem to lack a good plot, a larger scheme of things. Tell me, who was Darth Maul or Qui-Gon? We don't really know, at least not from the movies. Whereas Ben had a history, Dart Maul was just a silent assassin, sort of a tabula rasa.

 

This is closely link to the fourth point: the place of the prequels in the SW timeline. You see, the OT had a past. We knew there was much more to Ben than met the eye. He hinted at Clone Wars and good people turning bad. He talked of an old forgotten order of knights who were once the guardians of peace and he seemed to have this awesome power you never really fully saw... As for the prequels I can only think of one thing that allured to me in that way: the mystery of there being Sith, there always being two of them and not knowing anything about them, really... The point is that the OT has a mysterious history, whereas the prequels have only a future, which isn't even a mystery because we already saw it: we already know what's going to happen. The lack of this mystery is disappointing to many.

 

The last point but certainly not the least, is the fact that we grew up. A lot of the arguments kazooki made can be made for the OT as well.

 

Farfetched you say? A teenage orphan living with his uncle and aunt being able to grasp the ways of the force up to mastery after a three-day course with Ben and Yoda isn't farfetched? Or Luke being able to drop the grenade relying on the force a few days before he was even aware he was force-sensitive? Sure it was, though not at the age when you originally saw them.

 

Childish? Sure, but then again, the dialogues with Han Solo and, say Chewie or Leia ("Hey, who's scruffy looking?!") weren't? The OT are larded with childlike humor, so I'm always amazed at people who think the prequels should have been without it.

 

Then again, a lot has been f'ed up, if you ask me. Midi-chlorians were a mistake, and so was the age difference between Padme and Anakin. Names like Sleazebaggano or Annie weren't too good. And, of course, Jar Jar being a senator wasn't a bright idea. Although it could have been done properlyif GL had fleshed out that Jar Jar was used as a puppet by Palpatine.

 

But stuff was not only f'ed up in the movies... Wookiees (including Chewbacca) being described as a race of wise beings? I didn't get that vibe from Chewie in the OT. Chewbacca defiantly roaring as a moon came crashing down on him? That's not brave, it's pathetic if you ask me...

[Jahled]

That's an extremely well written post Trej.

 

Could it be that the 'dumbing down' of the Star Wars saga coincides with the use of special effects? It's largely been reported the actors found it hard to act so much of the films against a blue-backdrop.

[Stellar_Magic]

I'd have to agree with Jahled on one of the possible reasons for the dumbing down of the films, the over reliance on Special Effects. We've seen again and again that it takes really exceptional actors and directors to use special effects that remove all outside props and background. The only group in my mind that has been able to tell a story quite well with such effects is the Lord of the Rings bunch, and thats partial because they use the effects pretty sparingly.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

The movies sucked bad man....I'm sorry you and others like lucas don't think so.

 

 

Well, this is the only part I'm going to quote, and it will become evident why in a minute.

 

I wasn't attempting to justify the way GL developed the movies. I agree that they are in no way up-to-par with the OT. There is much about Ep. I and II that I disliked. I too could have done without Gungans, pretty much the whole section on Tatooine (well, through to the fight between Qui-Gon and Maul) and certainly without Jar Jar. I would have been completely happy had there been a better written interchange between Padme and Anakin instead the stiff and unimaginative dialogue we have. I could have also done without the 3P0/Battle Droid mixup in AotC.

 

What I was attempting to do was to give you a view at the other side of things. They certainly weren't the best movies in the world, but I feel you're a little harsh. I personally can't bring myself to watch TPM without the remote in my hand to skip the boring parts, but what I do watch I enjoy. AotC was only ruined (IMO) by the poor dialogue and presentation of Anakin, and by anything that transpired on Naboo.

 

I felt that you had allowed your dislike (indeed, hatred) of certain aspects of the prequels to cloud your judgement on other aspects of hte movies as well. Compare, and I meen really compare, the OT to the new movies. I think you will find that they have more in common than you think. Also, if you look at the OT, I think you'll also find that it follows closer to a saturday morning kid's show than you may previousley thought.

 

For example, ESB was by far the best of the movies, yet the ending irked me. One of the main characters was trapped and needed to be rescued. All it needed was a "Tune in next week. Same bat time... same bat channel" and it would have been perfect.

 

What I think, and possibly you think, killed the new movies to a degree isthe fact that Lucas wasn't as subtle in his inclusion of these traits. The prequels run the same course of events, just slightly reordered, but where fans slowly learned of Luke's talent i the force, watched him train, and had a good idea from the start that he was an acomplished pilot of air vehicles (pod racers IMO don't count as anything but glorified speeders), we find that in Ep. I Lucas gets lazy and simply throws it at us: WOW, HE HAS MORE OF THESE LITTLE MICROBE TINGIES THAN YODA! HE'LL BE ALL POWERFUL, followed later by :I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TURN THIS SHIP ON, BUT I'LL MAGICALLY FLY IT AND SINGLE HANDEDLY WIN THIS BATTLE!

 

I think that is why most people (or many at least) didn't like Ep. I and II to the same degree as the OT. Everything was too overdone, as though we're too stupid to catch on on our own. That, and SFX filled alot of the movies.

 

Now, to address to points off-topic: the tone in which, and indeed much of the reason that, my last post was presented was the immature manner in which you presented your dislike. Rather than select your areas of dislike and thoughtfuly presenting them in a mannerbecoming an adult, you simply grabbed chunks of the movie and stated that they sucked, were retarded, stupid, or farfetched. Hence, I presented something to the contrary of your post, and in a manner as childish as I could muster. As you said you're 29, I would have expected something more thought provoking instead of just provoking. (I'm sure this will find a segment in your next reply, but oh well).

 

As for my being a 35 year old fatger of 2, I'm closer to a 19 year old single student, just for clarity .

 

EDIT:I had meant to post this earlier, but I was pressed for time and was nearly late for work. I wanted to apologise for the tone in which my last post was made. Tit for tat is not at all the way to conduct a debate or discussion, and the immaturity of that post was quite uncalled for. Sarcasm has it's place, but I took it too far.

Edited April 7, 2005 by Grand_Admiral_Thrawn

[Jahled]

The only group in my mind that has been able to tell a story quite well with such effects is the Lord of the Rings bunch, and thats partial because they use the effects pretty sparingly.

 

They also used them to much greater effect, both in terms of the subtle and the dramatic. There are two wonderful scenes early in FotR; one where Gandalf and Bilbo are blowing smoke rings and the firework sequence. I'm actually hard pressed to think of better used special effects in a film. Then there is the Balrog in Khazad-Dum. A tour d'force or what!

 

The special effects in the OT were good enough to spellbind me as a child, and keep me going as an adult, but whilst visually impressive, the new films seem to have an almost 'sterile' quality to them; as if the special effects, as SM pointed out, are overdone. Granted it's a sci-fi film, but LotR is a fantasy film, and the special effects were used with obviously far more skill.

 

Perhaps Peter Jackson should be asked to make the final three films....

[SOCL]

I hope no one minds if I interject a quick idea, but in reference to the original topic (i.e. the name of the thread), is the saving to be done from Lucas or from fan-critics?

[Guest Scathane]

Well, whatever the fans may or may not feel, I think GL isn't going to do much saving...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I think the question we should be asking isn't if Episode III can be saved, but if Episode III can save Star Wars. We really only have a general idea of what Episode III will be like. Because of this, we don't know if it needs to be saved.

 

Sure, we can hypothosize based on Episode I and II, but I think most of us would agree that even those two movies were quite different from each other. It is quite possible that Episode III will be good, though it is equally possible that it will be worse than the first two.

 

I see RotS as GL's last chance to save Star Wars. We'll always have the OT, and not even the latest DVD release and all of it's changes can destroy that. The Prequals destroyed much of the Star Wars fanbase. If RotS is a flop Star Wars will only be kept alive by whatever novelisations people are willing to pay for, and whatever crap LucasArts throws at us.

 

If RotS is good, or, heaven forbit, great, many fans will come back, and it will prolong the life of the Star Wars galaxy, and hopefuly undo some of the damage already done.

[Evaders99]

Really, I don't think Star Wars will ever die. Lucas will continue to "milk the cow" in other areas besides movies. There are still video games, books, comics in the works.

 

There will always be people who love Star Wars in some form, and there will be content to go with it. Anything from LEGO Star Wars to the TCG to fan films.

[Jahled]

Something occured to me which may or may not have anything or everthing to do with Star Wars' continuity; in that George Lucas has remained aloof of the movie studio system...

 

... ...

[Guest Scathane]

What do you mean by the movie studio system? Edited April 13, 2005 by Scathane

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Well, after ANH, the Director's Guild (which GL was a part of at the time) tried to force him to put the credits at the beginning of the movie (listing the actors and producers and whatnot), but that would ruin the whole effect. So, he quit the guild, and several other orginizations in Hollywood.

 

The problem with this is, when he went to make ESB and RotJ, he wanted to have someone else direct. Well, most directors are members of the DG (including GL's friend Spielberg), and if you're not a member, you can't hire members. I think there were assorted other issues relating to production lots and what not.

 

So, the result was that Lucas filmed his movies at other lots than those in Holleywood, hired directors that weren't in the Guild (a tough job), and worked outside the workings of the Movie Making Machine.

 

It's really quite inspiring to see the little guy make it without the help of such a big pool of resources. If he had stuck with the Guild, we'd have a more Star Trek-like movie...

[dulljackieboy]

For somebody who thought the first two prequels were abysmal, to the point of having no real desire to see Episode II and having my fears confirmed and amplified, I gotta say that the trailer for Ep III that I saw at Sin City was pretty great. I s'pose I don't keep up with the Star Wars stuff as well as you kids do, but I saw a lot of what would logically lead up to the events of the original trilogy, which has been deeply lacking from the two most recent films; that is to say, good guys getting trampled, Palpatine stepping up slickly, and a prototype TIE fighter looking thing. I'm betting on an entertaining film that will still fail to save the franchise's respectability. Lucas lost my respect with the goddamn Ewoks, and making Anakin into a smarmy kid and a petulant pretty boy dug the hole that much deeper.

[Hitomi]

I could never quite understand why people degraded the Prequel Movies, and I have yet to truly find a logical excuse from anyone.

 

If five minutes of Ewoks, or Gungans, or a single child, can ruin an entire movie for someone, I begin to suspect they were searching for things to complain about in the first place.

 

The Phantom Menace was weak in the same way that A New Hope was weak.

The movie was forced to set the stage, introduce the characters, and find some way of starting a trilogy’s worth of plotline.

I personally liked A New Hope the least from the OT and I like The Phantom Menace the least from the PT.

 

There are reasons for Lucas’s choices.

Anakin was introduced as a small child in TPM in order for The Prophecy to work, so that we can find out some important points about Qui Gon’s character, so we can see Anakin as an innocent kid, and so that his fall is drastically amplified.

 

Episode II was a great Star Wars movie I think.

Ranking second all time behind Return for me actually.

 

It displays the Jedi’s weakening condition, the beginning of the Clone Wars, and we are finally able to discover why Yoda is such an esteemed Jedi Master.

 

Revenge will more than likely become the stalwart chapter of the Star Wars saga however.

 

Visually, the movie looks stunning at this point.

The opening space battle promises to be astounding.

The FIVE Lightsaber duels sound great.

 

Anakin’s fall is fully explained, as is his relationship with Palpatine.

The Force Ghost thing is explained, as something of a huge surprise for those that do not realize it.

The beginning of the Rebellion is explained, with Bail and Mon Mothma playing major roles. The novel even mentioned Garm Bel Iblis as a founding member!

 

We also find out why Bail was calling on Obi Wan in ANH, why Yoda sequestered himself away on Dagobah, and why Vader is filled with such rage.

 

There are, I think, three major revelations in this movie.

 

One of which opens a new dimension of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

 

 

Personally, after having finished the novel, I think ROTS will be the best Star Wars story yet.

[Jahled]

Personally, after having finished the novel, I think ROTS will be the best Star Wars story yet.

 

The book has been published?

[Evaders99]

Yes - Eville said it was really good

[Hitomi]

The movie will be out next month.

The novel came out April 2 I believe.

The Graphic Novel is already out as well.

The game will come out May 5.

 

Basically, as far as ROTS goes, anyone who has been plugged into the spoiler factory knows the entirty of the story.

 

The only thing left is to see the movie and question Lucas's cutting room decisions.

 

I always found the books to be superior to the movies to begin with, but Stover's Novel is good enough to be ranked up thier with Timothy Zahn, as is Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil.

 

Both books are very well done.