What are Evillejedi's sources for ship stats?

[pnakotus]

I ask, merely because he has a healthy disrespect for the RPG sources, and yet the vast majority of the New Republic ships have no other source, and the ISD weapon loadouts are straight out of the RPG. Unless 'they' release an OT ICS its unlikely we'll get reasonable or well-researched stats for the OT ships.

[Evaders99]

I think he has to rely on some sources to establish a base. But after that, it should stats that balances gameplay - not strict stats from any source.

[pnakotus]

Thats a good approach; I was really asking because of things like the ISD-I armamant being RPG stats instead of whats on the model, etc.

That affects balance vs the MC80s pretty strongly, since the ISD-1 has some of the largest heavy TLs in SW, whereas ISD-2 has many more, much smaller heavy TLs, and the MC80s seem to have a scattering of ISD-1-style extremely large guns... technically the ISD-2 should be less effective against large caps, but have a more flexible primary battery. Whereas the RPG stats have the ISD-2 simply being better in every respect, while is ridiculous. Even Vaders fleet in TESB and ROTJ had both types, they being complementary. At least against rag-tag fleets like the rebel fleet; ISD-1 would certainly be more effective against the larger cruisers.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

u sure know ur star wars pnakotus dont ya

[pnakotus]

LOL actually I don't really know anything about the EU, but I know what the various ISD models look like. Its odd to look at the ship stats and see that the ISD-I apparently has 60, identical, crap turbolasers, and no mention of the huge weapons to either side of the command tower. Don't even get me started on the 'ion cannons aren't blue' thing

 

I'm not sure if its really a problem; I haven't noticed ISD-1s being hopeless against caps, which its appalling loadout would suggest. Maybe it got fixed, but the spec sheet didn't get changed.

[Krytos]

Not to start a debate - but I think when the Star Wars stats were made, they tried to simplify different things in SW. Last I heard, those masive quad turrets on the side of the ship were the standard turbolaser like on the rest of the ISD - except being exposed they needed to be armoured which gave them the massive look, thoguh they also have a wider firing angle.

 

Anyway, anyone who wants RPG stats, and can't find the source books - here's a link to an alright (though now old) RPG stat website with official stats (some, however weren't known and have been guested, though they do mention that. And the MC armour values - while official - I personally don't like, some are very high for a Mon Cal cruiser). Anyway, without futher ado: click here

A little over board with the link, but I just found out you can put images in with the text for a link

 

If there are any other RPG stats you want, for ships and fighters, PM me - I know a few more that aren't on the site

[pnakotus]

I know you don't want to start a debate, but the ISD-2 heavy turrets are the size of football fields, whereas the weapons on a corvette are 8-9 meters long. These are simply not the same scale. The heavy ISD-1 turrets have even *larger* weapons. I think when they made the RPG stats, they just Made Shit Up, and 60 TLs and 60 ion cannons sounded good. However, like almost everything else in the RPG stats, they are also wrong.

 

On an ISD, light TLs are invisibly small, and have a wide enough arc of fire that in ANH a rear weapon fired forwards to shoot the Tantive-IV. They could literally have hundreds of these weapons, given the density of firing ports seen in ESB. I know Evillejedi is aware of all this, so I'm wondering if he's mixing and matching realistic stats with RPG stats during betas, or if he's already changed the stats and just not the tooltip.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

i think one of the problems with making your own mod is keeping it true to in this case to star wars, balancing and generaly making people happy by makin it fun. Also you must remember this is only 0.30 and Evillejedi will probarlbly add a lot more units , balance ships and so on.

[BobTheGreat]

technically the ISD-2 should be less effective against large caps, but have a more flexible primary battery. Whereas the RPG stats have the ISD-2 simply being better in every respect, while is ridiculous. Even Vaders fleet in TESB and ROTJ had both types, they being complementary. At least against rag-tag fleets like the rebel fleet; ISD-1 would certainly be more effective against the larger cruisers.

 

that's a very good point. it would force people to build both ISD-I's as heavy hitters vs capital ships and ISD-II's as heavy fleet escorts to deal with both capital and smaller ships. As it is, I tend to use VSD's or strike cruisers as my escorts, and ISD-II's for ship-killing.

[pnakotus]

I like Evillejedi's apparent attitude of leaving balance to last; until ship stats are finalised, balancing is basically a waste of time. Some idea how happy he is with the current state of the starship definitions is all I'm looking for...

 

Actually, the price/performance trade seems to be very good for rebel fighters; x- or b-wings volleying caps is extremely effective, and probably too much so. I'd like to perhaps have projectiles being less effective against shields, so fighters must be used to exploit existing shield failures. Something that'll wait for sectional shields, I guess.

 

Is the wide variety of TL power in the medium ships a RPG thing? It seems ridiculous that one or two of the corvette/light cruiser class have type 7 TLs, and the rest have basically useless 4,5 and 6s. Indeed, I think the Eidolion has TLs larger than the largest ISD-I weapons, which is a bit lame. Does anyone know of any other affronts to common sense in the ship stats? Note that I agree with EJ in that the RPG is an extremely poor, almost useless source.

[EvilleJedi]

heh I pmed you back before I read the thread, but in the case with the ISD I vs the ISD II I would argue that the ISD I is much older, nearly a clone wars ship(EPIII will prove me right or wrong depending on what lucas throws in at the end of the movie), one of the biggest problems is that the mod covers a 50 year period of military development, so older ships will seem pathetic next to more modern ones. I at one time looked at restating and rearming every starwars ship to fit a practical standpoint of its development, but my discovery was that basically there was no need for variety of ships, what the RPG stats do if nothing else is give ships personality. starwars is such a mixed up mess that practically you can say anything you want and find a canon or EU or game source to back it up. at that point we would be debating how official some imaginary thing is which in my opinion is rather silly. its much better to pick one that makes sense and stick with it (unlike what all the EU and game authors did by making up stuff as they felt like it)

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

It's true that the ISD I's are old (the Empire had a large number of them in ANH, so they must have been building for a while), but the difference between them and the ISD IIs isn't really that much, just a matter of heavy turrets and more armor. The Empire was still using ISD Is and VSDs at the Battle of Endor (the Visage was a VSD used for communications. The Chimaera was the designated command ship should the Executor be disabled or destroyed, so the ISD Is must be pretty good). I think Eville did a good job at balancing the ships out, both weapon and cost wise. There really isn't a huge differnece between the ISD classes, just a little bit more power and armor.

[pnakotus]

I actually bought this up because I had a pretty negative ISD-I vs ISD-II experience. I don't think they're comparable at all; ISD-II has more, heavier weapons, etc etc. I agree there's not alot of call for variety in SW fleet composition, but atm the ISD-I is simply a weaker, crapper version of ISD-II, which could be nothing more than a refit program(although changed to the hangar arrangements etc suggest this isn't the case).

 

I think I'll do myself some research, and see what I can dig up stats-wise, at least about the canon ships. I think its unlikely I'll learn anything either consistent or useful about offical ships, but the heavier vessels should be relatively easy to work out more consistent stats on. Before I start, does hw2 have any limits on variety or number of weapons? Its likely Executor should have thousands of weapons, and would this be a problem?

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

well the executor already fires an isane amount of lasers

[pnakotus]

*grin* While Executor has a fair amount of anti-cap guns, it doesn't seem to have the literal tens of thousands of anti starfighter guns it should have, making it a huge target for volleys. It costs 6 MILLION ru, it should be worth it. I haven't used it much, but I'd be interested to see if its so long it has weapon range problems

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Trust me, the Executor is more than worth the RU you pay for it. I haven't experienced any weapon range problems because of the size, but the weapon recharge time is a bit long. There should be rotating batteries of turbolasers that fire, not just bursts.

If you build the Executor, you don't really need any other ships. I have yet to have mine take any damage in battle.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

hope never to see the ai build one. Kiss could bye to my victories

[pnakotus]

Good point with the reloading cycle; it'd be neat if the larger ships fired in batteries to keep fire up, instead of the occasional orgasm of fire. This is very obvious in the case of larger ships, like the Titan. Not sure if HW2 can do that sort of thing tho.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

Who thought Homeworld 2 could look this good ay? If i can even be contemplated then evilejedi will probarbly find a way to do it