General Discussion

[bobandrubert]

Dude a Sovren-class star trek ship could kill the fully completed second death star by using it's phase torpedos to explode in the power core.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

fine imperials could just build a death star.....i win

[pnakotus]

Dude a Sovren-class star trek ship could kill the fully completed second death star by using it's phase torpedos to explode in the power core.

 

LOL Wrong board for ST fanboys with poor spelling. Try and invent new capabilities for ST in your own time; I can hear the FAP FAP FAP from here

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

star trek sucks (cept nemesis that was quite a good film). Long live star wars and its insane amount of books

[Vero]

Not sure where to post it but so far ive been pretty sketch on the big domes on SD's and SSD's...i am watching ROTJ right onow and just got past the part where they went to a bunch of fighters attacking one of those domes. When they blow it up, one of the crew tells the admiral that the forward disrupter shield is gone. coincidence....i think not.

[EvilleJedi]

or maybe the sensor dome explosion took out the bridge shields just because it happens at the same time doesn't attribute that functionality to the dome. another major point would be that the exec has 6 domes and only 1 was shown to be destroyed.... chew on that.

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

lol is there anything about star wars you dont know?

Oh and aparently the strident star destroyer is completed but i havnt taken super caps of my games (rebel ships vs imperial ships with ssds i think not) so is it in the game, and if not are you adding it to the proper release of .30 beta. Last but not least could we try some improvements in patch form if youve made any so we can give you our opinion

[EvilleJedi]

I haven't spent too much time on the game side of the mod, more been doing models and textures for stuff thats going to come out. the strident isn't in because it had a crashing problem.

[Vero]

well whatever the answer is...my feelings on it are that the domes are the shields now after watching the movie. I was going with u evil but after that i think im gonna with those domes being sheilds. But whatever they are...i dont think it would make a difference in the game so it doesnt really matter.

[Vero]

well whatever the answer is...my feelings on it are that the domes are the shields now after watching the movie. I was going with u evil but after that i think im gonna with those domes being sheilds. But whatever they are...i dont think it would make a difference in the game so it doesnt really matter.

[Zero150]

Yeah, I think they say they're shield generators, but I think I'm gonna side with eville on this one and say they have now gotten smarter and built those things inside of the hull where they are protected, and replaced the domes as sensors. Honestly, what british genius (cuz the empire are all british) came up with the idea to put the most important, lifesaving part of the ship in the easiest and least defended position, I ask you who.

[Vero]

Any chance of Clone War ships making an appearance in the next version? And if so...what kind of ships would there be?

[Zero150]

hey yeah, I was noticing that too. There is the option to have just clone war ships, but I actually haven't seen that many. And I'm not sure how you're going to handle that, because the sides back then were actually reversed, and it was the Empire versus....I'm not really sure you could call them the rebellion, but it was against the droid armies. Anyway, just wondering what you're gonna do about that as well

[EvilleJedi]

technically its empire vs seperatists which is technically the rebellion (after dooku and grevious get dismantled and the empire rises to power)

 

republic will be empire and the alliance will be sepretist

 

the clones wars shiplist isn't complete yet, and I think it will probably be a month or so before I really start working on that part of the mod.

[Vero]

can't wait to those ships, do u have any sketches of them?

[Vero]

Are the Hapan Battle Ships gonna be in the next patch?

[Stellar_Magic]

I can see why there's debate on the shield generator/sensors issue, but here's a question, if you read the some of the technical guides you see that there are both shield generators, and shield projectors. What if the energy for the shields has to be generated outside of the shield, could that explain their placement? (It would also explain why those A-wings could bash the generators while the shields were still up.)

 

I will agree they look an awfully lot like a doppler radar, and that position would be one of the best places for such a sensor, but the scenes in the movies just don't support that idea.

[EvilleJedi]

the point of my argument is why do only a very few models of KDY and Rendelli destroyers have domes? dreadnaughts, acclamators, republic destroyers, nebulas/defenders don't, nebulon b's don't , mon cals obviously don't and their shielding is superior to ISDs. no other manufacturer puts these on their ships even when they claim to have advanced shields.

 

actually there is also evidence that in the case of SSDs the domes are explicitly sensor domes. In the case of the late model SSDs (black fleet crisis) they added an extra sensor DOME to the centerline of the ship to improve coverage to be able to detect fighters that were hiding in the super structure.

[the_mask]

Hmm, sounds good, but you could also turn this question around: if only a few ships had these sensor domes on the outside, why didn't we see them on other ships as well ?

 

The answer to both is most likely, that the generators (or what you may call them) are inside some of the ships. Design is just that, cars for example are also built with different looks, yet you still assume each one has a motor. Although a shieldgen wouldn't be a bad thing to have, either

 

Here's another theory: Stellar, remember that officer saying that they lost their bridge deflector shield after the A-Wings destroyed the domes ? That could also mean, that these domes were just generators, that protected the bridge's superstructure.

 

And regardless, if you're a supporter of Curtis Saxton's ideas or not, Star Wars is GL's project, Warlords is that of eville (who doesn't seem to have email notification for pms)

[blazican]

well im not looking for a debate but im sure ill get one so here goes, My friend who is a big trekkie fanatic tried this mob out adn is amazed at the game play and how fun the game is. After i beat the crap out of him (he never played the game before) we started talking about star wars abd star trek. Being how im a B5 fan we started discussing about whos got the better ships; B5, star wars, or star trek. Well, thinking about this i of course answered B5 but i do love star wars second. So, to better help this age old debate i wonder if there were any trek guys and B5 guys who also built a mod for homeworld for those 2 TV shows and built ships according to specs and we can really see once and for all how the different races would fare against each other. Im not saying its gonna happen but who knows i would like to see it happen. what do the rest of you guys think?

[Grand_Admiral_Pellaeon]

i know theres a b5 mod out there some where, just search for it on google. Also i belive that in order of best ships its Star Wars (Mon cal cruiser cant beat it), star trek (soverign class) and then b5 (errrrm *insert cool b5 ship here*)

[EvilleJedi]

heh I did some interesting math based on a lot of sources and given that there are better 'funny super weapons' a sovereign in enterprise configuration would be around the power of a strike cruiser, the phasers are so low powered its just plain wrong if you take official sources, with a phaser doing almost 1/1000 of the damage of a torp even if it was firing for a full minute at one spot, also from various sources even a quantum torp is only yeilding 256 MT, about 3 times that of a single heavy conc missile on a victory. also the intantaneous power absorbtion of the SW ans ST shields is nearly the same, but the total shield strength and armor integrity (even with ablative armor) is way off for the ST ships, way below what would be expected. I was sorta disapointed that federation ships were so weak, I always figured that phasers were higher powered (the main problem is the phasers being pathetic, since they are measured in terawatts and the unit of time is not specified but fire rates are given that mean that the TW rating is for a second, not an adjusted pulse in ns like SW weapon ratings are sometimes viewed at)

 

what the ST ship and B5 for that matter excel at is the manuverability of warp and the ability to do combat in HS, something SW just doesn't have. granted phasers are next to useless at anything other than a head on kamikaze shot at warp 0.0001 most of thier abilities are in impulse, also p torps are really kludgy and require the enemy ship to literally fly into them (which isn't hard at warp I guess) and q torps are just unguided death bombs so once again its tough to say what would happen. If you take the non-cannon EU vong invasion weapon ranges for capital ships and their max sublight speeds you get the following encounter

 

0 seconds

sov

at warp 1 cruising (anything faster is just a strafing run) around sees ISD II sitting there plodding along at a measly 1000km/s, waits until its in torp range of around 60,000 km, flops off some ripple fire q torps and regular torps at maximum range hoping to catch the cumbersome ISD off guard

 

5 seconds

ISD II

suddenly a bunch of glowy enrgy balls light up the shields and can't swerve to avoid them, not enough to override the shields, but the shields do reduce in strength

 

10 seconds

sov

gets within 30,000 km and drops out of warp, opens up with phasers trying to hit unshielded systems on the ISD fires a few more torps

 

15 seconds

ISD II

the phasers uselessly hit the shields (since SW shields are considered multiphasic and phasers are so underpowered) and do nothing more than to slow down shield recharing, though the torps do some damage and bring the ISDs shields down to around 75%

now that this other ship suddenly appears attacking it, orders are made to yaw the ship for maximum weapons coverage, ISD goes into a circle strafe and opens up at 25,000 km with 64 heavy TLs and 200 medium TLs

about 25% of the shots hit their mark

 

20 seconds

sov

now at around 15,000km

lots of exploding panels and shaking cameras, orders are made to make up some plot device weapon to counter this new threat shields are down to 15% and probably some randomly named technobable motivator is off line and decks ...

 

30 seconds

ISD II

at 5000km another salvo opens up, this time with with 80 heavy ion cannons a few more ripple fired qtorps hit and the shields are dropping to 50%

 

sov

suddenly a lot of systems go offline, shields are down and theres a lot of dead red shirts floating around, the ship is crippled, but still straggling along, bridge crew decides to try some funkyness with transporters, but power is out and some heisenburg compensator is out of alignment

 

and on and on

 

again both of these things are non-canon assessments, but really the only thing that really is on par with SW warships are borg ships, dominion heavy warships, a few random single produced romulan ships and wacky one shot epidode super creature ships.

 

really I was disapointed, I had hoped earth would fare better

 

what ST has in manuverability, SW has in pure massive overkill, if a ST ship was smart it would stay at warp and simply orbit out of weapons range until its torps are exhauted, now this would work, but if it strayed within weapons range it would be quite a bit of slag

 

when we do our SW - ST mod thats in the works we will rebalance the federation ships and make them much more powerful, because going by quoted and canon evidence of weapon strength and taking a few liberties with both sides non-canon strengths it just wouldn't be fun, I think we'll make a foot note in the readme stating that intrests of making the mod playable and fun, the relative strengths of different races were adjusted (for example the borg will be weaker, so that you don't need 20 heavy warships to take down one tactical cube)

 

as for B5, I really don't know enough about it to make a judgement, but I would say that SW ships out shield and in most cases outgun the b5 ships, but the abilty to attack in HS would be very dangerous indeed

[AdmiralFishface]

SW ships won't have a hard time outshielding B5 ships, since most of the latter have NO energy shields, IIRC. B5 defense systems consist mainly of ECM (extremely efficient in case of Minbari), thick armor and interceptor cannons (esp. on Earth ships).

My guess (completely unfounded, I must say) would be that the concentrated firepower of an Omega destroyer equals that of a Galaxy class ship or something, but lacking shields and FTL maneuverability, it couldn't keep up with one.

 

as for ST ships being ridiculously low-powered: Blame it on the writers. In early ST a Constitution class vessel was said to be able to lay waste to a planet, while TNG ships would be happy to be able to kill as much as a city (because of ridiculous random numbers for energy output etc).

[Stellar_Magic]

Good assesment Eville. Now, B5... I really don't know. I think the B5 series did the best job at portraying the way space combat would work. (You can clearly see newtonian physics at work, especially with the starfurys.) Unfortunately the only thing I think that could even be a challenge for a SW vessel would be a mimbari ship, perhaps someone should dig up some stats on the Whitestars. It would be interesting to see what they come up with.

[blazican]

i hear what ur saying evil, but being a b5 fan i woul dhave to disagree with a minor opinon. You are right in saying the b5 ship shave no shilds this is true but when u watch the show the mear dmg output of some of their most powerful races i.e. the shadows, vorlons, minbari. they put out a alot of dmg and besides the shadows can phase into HS and also have a invinsible cloaking device. The earthforce ships would be easily made into toast. Maybe there could be a fix to that problem? well i dont know but i think some of the races in b5 could hold their own against SW or ST. But in my Opinon i dont think ST could match the power of any b5 race. thats my opinion but maybe im wrong. it would be really cool to see all three in a mod and fight against each other.