My big beef with Rebellion: Just who picked the ships?

[Texas_Fett]

The Liberator-class cruiser, the CC-7700, the CC-9600, the Bulwark Battlecruiser, the Dauntless-class cruiser...just where the heck did these things come from?

 

Now, I realize that Rebellion is a game of balance, and these ships were the designers' attempt to maintain that delicate state. That said, why did they ever decide to create five ships out of whole cloth rather than rely upon documented canon and/or EU ships?

 

The CC-7700 I can somewhat understand, since it's the counterpart to the Interdictor, and while not canon, it solves the problem of the Rebels only having captured Interdictors in their fleet. But the rest? The Marauder corvette, the MC40a, the MC80b, the MC90, the Viscount Star Defender (okay...this one I understand, being that it only recently made an appearance. GL, you're off the hook on that one...). Each of these would have been a better choice.

 

The reason for my rant here is that I just read an excellent piece of fanfic off the Downtime site, ("Commencement" by Katie Zajdel) and after complimenting her I noted that she never stated what type of ship her characters were stationed on. She said it was a Dauntless cruiser. Since her story takes place shortly after Yavin, I was going to point out that the Dauntless wasn't even in production then, but there's no information on the Dauntless cruiser to back me up! Even after checking the CUSWE, the only info out there on it and the other four ships is taken directly from the encyclopedia entries in Rebellion!

 

So anyway, that's my beef. Why come up with these ships at all when there are better 'canon' substitutes, and since they went into the effort of including them, why not flesh them out with some more description? I mean, aside from the CC-9600 frigate (a completely pointless ship, IMHO, given that it's virtually the same as the Assault frigate), they're all realtively cool ships, but I just wish there was more documentation about them.

 

Okay...{ahem}. [/rant]

 

Oh, and if anyone actually DOES have info on the Dauntless, please pass it on.

[Evaders99]

What 'canon' substitutes were there when this game was made? Really, nothing could have matched a Super Star Destroyer. For balance, the Rebels needed some more variantions of ships besides Mon Cal cruisers.

[Trejiuvanat]

I think one of the CCs made an appearance in one book, but yes there is no information on those ship classes.

[Cain]

Hmmm...I always told Evaders that we should have our own Database Encyc. with the REBELLION ships....we know - I think - More about some Star Wars ships than everyone else ...

[igorimp]

I don't like the whole 'substitute' idea.

 

I mean, the point of the Super Star Destroyer was that it was bigger and more powerful then ANYTHING in the galaxy. The whole point being that the Empire would spend zillions of materials to build the damn thing, while the Rebels would equip a huge fleet for that amount.

 

When you look at it, put 6 Mon Cals and their fighters together and that SSD is history, Bulwark present or not. By matching the SSD, LucasArts just reduced the Imperial achivement to mere ordinary.

 

Thank god they didn't try to match the Death Star (with a 'Life' Star)... otherwise we'd be having some very strange battles...

[the_mask]

Evaders is right.

When Rebellion was created, most of the ships you meantioned, weren't even created. Tie Fighter had the Mc40a and some of the other ships meantioned during that time, but ships like the Mc90 were created for comics and in case of the Mc80b in one of Aaron Allston's books.

 

The only real alternative would be the Peregrine class, but that one didn't exist before X-Wing Vs Tie Figher's mission disc "Ballance of power"

If this wouldn't have been made, I guess there would be XWA opts for the CC-7700, or anywhere else

[Texas_Fett]

Yes, Evanders most certainly IS. Y'all have to pardon my post yesterday. I don't quite know what I was smoking, but whatever it is, it ain't helping my sore throat, headache, and cough.

 

I remembered the MC40 being in TIE Fighter, which predates Rebellion, but by 'MC90' I was referring to my own designation for the 'Home One'/Independance ship from RotJ (Woulda been nice if I'd shared that little bit of info with y'all, wouldn't it?). Yes, I know the general concensus is that all of the Mon Cals at Endor were simply MC80 variants, but let's be real about it: a ship the size of 'Home One' is a whole different class of vessel. And then there's the whole 'winged' and 'wingless' MC80 arguement.

 

However, I also agree with igorimp regarding the Bulwark. There shouldn't have been a ship to 'match' the Executor-class Star Destroyer. Perhaps the closest the Rebels should have come is the Dauntless, although I would have put the 'Home One' vessel in its place and replaced the Bulwark with the Dauntless.

 

Overall, what I think my arguement was trying to say yesterday was that there are two overriding themes regarding the ship-types of the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire has the wedge-shaped Star Destroyers that are not only fearsome in combat, but bring a psychological edge with them into battle. The Rebels have the 'natural', smooth-looking designs of the Mon Cals for their frontline warships, with smaller designs (Corvettes, Neb-B's) thrown in. The ship designs chosen for Rebellion, specifically for the Rebels late in the game, don't fit that theme. A side benefit of this 'theme' to the Rebels/New Republic fleets was that it was difficult for the Empire to distinguish between ships, allowing the Rebels to better camouflage their abilities.

 

I also really believe that the developers missed a chance to more closely represent the Galaxy Civil War by not including the option to capture vessels. The Rebels didn't have the capability to produce large-scale vessels on their own, especially not the likes of the Bulwark, the CC-9600, or even the Dauntless (unless I'm missing something where the Dauntless is supposed to be a Mon Cal design). They were reliant upon captured vessels or those whose crews defected. Granted, Rebellion isn't supposed to be "Star Wars Canon Simulator", and they did the best they could for the time, but still...

 

Anyway, I hope that clears up a bit of what I (hope I) meant yesterday.

[the_mask]

Yep, that minor bit of info would've come in handy

So far I've always kept to Adam Overholtzer's complete guides and what's in the Cuswe. There's been a looooong discussion in the Reloaded board about what the MonCal cruiser designations meant and I think we settled for making Home One the prototype for a complete class of cruisers as well. Although it looks like an Mc80.

 

The angular design of the "late" Rebel ships really doesn't fit in with the rest of the organic looking ones. Knowing my affinity to find ludicrous explanations for everything you might already wonder what would come next

The Liberator, for example: the text says, that the Rebels bought this from SoroSuub, so they were most likely just looking to make a bargain

[Texas_Fett]

Yep, that minor bit of info would've come in handy

Ooooooo...

So far I've always kept to Adam Overholtzer's complete guides and what's in the Cuswe. There's been a looooong discussion in the Reloaded board about what the MonCal cruiser designations meant and I think we settled for making Home One the prototype for a complete class of cruisers as well. Although it looks like an Mc80.

Yeah, his guides are great, but I still have problems associating three different-appearing ships as MC80's. For my game, I've replaced the Mon Cal cruiser with the 'winged' MC80 (no change in stats, but using your model), the CC-9600 with the MC80b (again, your model but with slightly improved stats over the MC80), and the Dauntless with the Home One, or as I term it, the MC90.

 

The other thing I wish he had was a guide to the non-Mon Cal ships of the Alliance and the non-Star Destroyer ships of the Empire.

 

The angular design of the "late" Rebel ships really doesn't fit in with the rest of the organic looking ones. Knowing my affinity to find ludicrous explanations for everything you might already wonder what would come next

The Liberator, for example: the text says, that the Rebels bought this from SoroSuub, so they were most likely just looking to make a bargain

Yes, and that tends to fit with the history of characters like Nien Nunb, but as for the ship itself... . At least it's cool-looking, I'll give it that. Unlike that dumb 'Assault Transport' the Empire was given. Or the CC-7700. And I can probably cut some slack to the CC's, given the 'reputation' of Corellian engineering and their extensive (yet oddly enough, invisible) shipyards. But you'd think we would have seen them produce more than just light-stock freighters, corvettes and gunships, especially given Corellia's importance in the early stages of the Rebellion.

 

That still leaves the Dauntless and the Bulwark, though, although based off its looks and description, it could be implied that the Dauntless is of Mon Cal design.

[Valkir]

 

Oh, and if anyone actually DOES have info on the Dauntless, please pass it on.

 

 

It is a little known fact that the Dauntless was actually a CrackerJack prize, and not one of their most successful at that. Aside from the logistcal problems associated with ramping up production to produce a box big enough to hold the Dauntless as a prize and still contain some amount of CrackerJack, the Dauntless was also the most common prize in their 6-set collector series, "Hyperspace Hotrods".

 

Sources speculate that the final nail in the coffin for this cruiser was when Emporer Palpatine opened his fourth CrackerJack box and got consecutive Dauntlesses. "Dammit! This starship bites!", he is reported to say. "And its deck smells like Gammorean butt! Lord Vader! When you are done giving yourself a head-wedgie, go and procure me some REAL ships!"

 

 

and that is how the rebels got their Dauntlesses for so cheap...

 

 

Valkir

[Texas_Fett]

...and that is how the rebels got their Dauntlesses for so cheap...

...says the man who has never even played as the Rebels, let alone far enough along to even get an idea how much a Dauntless costs.

 

Welcome back, buddy. Been talkin' 'bout ya a bit. But don't worry; it's all good.